Trump to be indicted - again.
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wrote on 11 Jun 2023, 12:41 last edited by
Turley: "Many are celebrating what the Drudge Report suggested was “the downfall of the Don.” However, destroying Trump in a scandal is like trying to drown a manatee: Both are in their element."
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Turley: "Many are celebrating what the Drudge Report suggested was “the downfall of the Don.” However, destroying Trump in a scandal is like trying to drown a manatee: Both are in their element."
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wrote on 11 Jun 2023, 13:38 last edited by
@Mik said in Trump to be indicted - again.:
@George-K he does have a remarkable resilience.
How did you get @Jon's password?
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@Mik said in Trump to be indicted - again.:
@George-K he does have a remarkable resilience.
How did you get @Jon's password?
wrote on 11 Jun 2023, 13:49 last edited by@George-K said in Trump to be indicted - again.:
@Mik said in Trump to be indicted - again.:
@George-K he does have a remarkable resilience.
How did you get @Jon's password?
1dh!tth@t ? Pretty simple, really…
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wrote on 11 Jun 2023, 14:17 last edited by
The indictment lists these counts:
- 31 counts of willful retention of classified documents
- 1 count of conspiracy to obstruct justice
- 1 count of withholding a document or record
- 1 count of corruptly concealing a document or record
- 1 count of concealing a document in a federal investigation
- 1 count of scheme to conceal
- and one count of making false statements and representations.
We know for a fact that Pence and Biden have exposure on the basis of retention of classified documents. Pence's home, Biden's office, Biden's lawyers' office, and Biden's garage have all found to have classified documents.
Why are they not being investigated by a grand jury?
Granted the obstruction charges are a whole 'nother thing, but they are separate charges, 6 of them. Had Trump not (allegedly) obstructed, would have been charged with the first 31?
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The indictment lists these counts:
- 31 counts of willful retention of classified documents
- 1 count of conspiracy to obstruct justice
- 1 count of withholding a document or record
- 1 count of corruptly concealing a document or record
- 1 count of concealing a document in a federal investigation
- 1 count of scheme to conceal
- and one count of making false statements and representations.
We know for a fact that Pence and Biden have exposure on the basis of retention of classified documents. Pence's home, Biden's office, Biden's lawyers' office, and Biden's garage have all found to have classified documents.
Why are they not being investigated by a grand jury?
Granted the obstruction charges are a whole 'nother thing, but they are separate charges, 6 of them. Had Trump not (allegedly) obstructed, would have been charged with the first 31?
wrote on 11 Jun 2023, 15:44 last edited by Axtremus 6 Nov 2023, 15:44@George-K said in Trump to be indicted - again.:
- 31 counts of willful retention of classified documents
...
We know for a fact that Pence and Biden have exposure on the basis of retention of classified documents. ...
Why are they not being investigated by a grand jury?You missed the word "willful."
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wrote on 11 Jun 2023, 16:21 last edited by
I think there’s a big difference between “should have known better” and “fuck them, I’m taking this”.
I don’t know enough about the details to know what happened in this latest case - but I’m guessing it’s more of the latter.
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@George-K said in Trump to be indicted - again.:
- 31 counts of willful retention of classified documents
...
We know for a fact that Pence and Biden have exposure on the basis of retention of classified documents. ...
Why are they not being investigated by a grand jury?You missed the word "willful."
wrote on 11 Jun 2023, 16:36 last edited by@Axtremus said in Trump to be indicted - again.:
@George-K said in Trump to be indicted - again.:
- 31 counts of willful retention of classified documents
...
We know for a fact that Pence and Biden have exposure on the basis of retention of classified documents. ...
Why are they not being investigated by a grand jury?You missed the word "willful."
That argument might hold water for Pence, but not with Biden, based on the reactions of many of his Congressional peers…
Beyond that, I fully support Trump serving time for breaking these laws if proven beyond a read doubt in a fair and impartial court.
I’m just also for the same for Pence, Biden, and Hilary. The problem goes back to Comey…
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@George-K said in Trump to be indicted - again.:
- 31 counts of willful retention of classified documents
...
We know for a fact that Pence and Biden have exposure on the basis of retention of classified documents. ...
Why are they not being investigated by a grand jury?You missed the word "willful."
wrote on 11 Jun 2023, 16:37 last edited by@Axtremus said in Trump to be indicted - again.:
You missed the word "willful."
Fair point. I wonder what the statute says.
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wrote on 11 Jun 2023, 16:45 last edited by
Like or dislike Trump, if you nail his hide to the wall, while letting half of Washington walk, then what many (and I mean a significant portion of the country) think about the DOJ and The Swamp which works in the Beltway, is inarguably and irrevocably true.
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wrote on 11 Jun 2023, 16:47 last edited by
WaPo published a piece on why Trump was charged while HRC, Biden, and Pence were not:
There is a lot in that article.
There is also this bit on what Trump has not been charged:
Notably, however, the indictment does not charge Trump with the illegal retention of any of the 197 documents he returned to the archives. That shows that if Trump had simply returned all the classified documents he had, he probably never would have been charged with any crimes, said Robert Mintz, a former federal prosecutor.
“This is not a case about what documents were taken, it’s about what former president Trump did after the government sought to retrieve those documents,” said Mintz, who noted that willful-retention cases often hinge on how much evidence prosecutors can find that a person deliberately hid material or refused to give it back. -
wrote on 11 Jun 2023, 16:53 last edited by
WaPo is also known as Bezo's Washington Compost and is a Democrat paper. Do not expect anything but Left-biased coverage from them, especially in any opinion piece.
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WaPo published a piece on why Trump was charged while HRC, Biden, and Pence were not:
There is a lot in that article.
There is also this bit on what Trump has not been charged:
Notably, however, the indictment does not charge Trump with the illegal retention of any of the 197 documents he returned to the archives. That shows that if Trump had simply returned all the classified documents he had, he probably never would have been charged with any crimes, said Robert Mintz, a former federal prosecutor.
“This is not a case about what documents were taken, it’s about what former president Trump did after the government sought to retrieve those documents,” said Mintz, who noted that willful-retention cases often hinge on how much evidence prosecutors can find that a person deliberately hid material or refused to give it back.wrote on 11 Jun 2023, 17:19 last edited by@Axtremus said in Trump to be indicted - again.:
WaPo published a piece on why Trump was charged while HRC, Biden, and Pence were not:
There is a lot in that article.
There is also this bit on what Trump has not been charged:
Notably, however, the indictment does not charge Trump with the illegal retention of any of the 197 documents he returned to the archives. That shows that if Trump had simply returned all the classified documents he had, he probably never would have been charged with any crimes, said Robert Mintz, a former federal prosecutor.
“This is not a case about what documents were taken, it’s about what former president Trump did after the government sought to retrieve those documents,” said Mintz, who noted that willful-retention cases often hinge on how much evidence prosecutors can find that a person deliberately hid material or refused to give it back.Thanks for that. He should’ve taken a hammer to the boxes.
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wrote on 11 Jun 2023, 17:20 last edited by xenon 6 Nov 2023, 17:21
Bill Barr says if even half of the indictment is true, Trump is toast. Guy who lead Trump’s DoJ.
“ It’s a very detailed indictment. And it’s very, very damning, and this idea of presenting Trump as a victim here, a victim of a witch hunt is ridiculous.”
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Bill Barr says if even half of the indictment is true, Trump is toast. Guy who lead Trump’s DoJ.
“ It’s a very detailed indictment. And it’s very, very damning, and this idea of presenting Trump as a victim here, a victim of a witch hunt is ridiculous.”
wrote on 11 Jun 2023, 19:42 last edited by@xenon said in Trump to be indicted - again.:
Bill Barr says if even half of the indictment is true, Trump is toast. Guy who lead Trump’s DoJ.
“ It’s a very detailed indictment. And it’s very, very damning, and this idea of presenting Trump as a victim here, a victim of a witch hunt is ridiculous.”
I always got the feeling that Barr took the job out of his sense of justice and duty, not because of personal ambition. His book is interesting, because I think it gives a fair handed assessment of trumps behavior in the White House as well as Barry’s feeling toward the man himself.
That said, both he and McCarthy join in their feelings that the indictments are devastating.
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WaPo published a piece on why Trump was charged while HRC, Biden, and Pence were not:
There is a lot in that article.
There is also this bit on what Trump has not been charged:
Notably, however, the indictment does not charge Trump with the illegal retention of any of the 197 documents he returned to the archives. That shows that if Trump had simply returned all the classified documents he had, he probably never would have been charged with any crimes, said Robert Mintz, a former federal prosecutor.
“This is not a case about what documents were taken, it’s about what former president Trump did after the government sought to retrieve those documents,” said Mintz, who noted that willful-retention cases often hinge on how much evidence prosecutors can find that a person deliberately hid material or refused to give it back.wrote on 11 Jun 2023, 20:18 last edited by@Axtremus said in Trump to be indicted - again.:
hinge on how much evidence prosecutors can find that a person deliberately hid
There were pictures of the "evidence" in all the papers. It wasn't very well hidden.
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wrote on 11 Jun 2023, 22:25 last edited by
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wrote on 13 Jun 2023, 01:10 last edited by
Now, I know that Ambassador Bolton is not a Pres. Trump fan, but here is his analysis on the situation.
https://www.npr.org/2023/06/12/1181653609/trump-indictment-john-bolton
On Republicans' attacks on the Justice Department
Take it for granted Democrats don't prosecute Democrats, believe all that, that Hillary [Clinton] should have been prosecuted, that Joe Biden should be prosecuted and they weren't and that's an injustice. Accept that for the sake of argument and then ask these (Republican) candidates the question: Does that mean you give Donald Trump a free pass? Is your answer to the double standard problem to have no standard at all?
Republicans used to believe if you didn't prosecute criminals you'd have more crime, and I think that insight was right then and it's right now. The way you correct the double standard is to take the politics out of the decision-making, and if you do that, Donald Trump should be at trial as soon as possible.
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wrote on 13 Jun 2023, 01:13 last edited by
What you cite as his points are valid.
The problem is that offenders of the law have skated in the past, making the (probably legitimate) of Trump seem political and one sided.
As (I think) NRO said, the fact that you excused this behavior in the past is not sufficient reason to excuse it again.
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wrote on 13 Jun 2023, 01:20 last edited by
Avoid all appearance.
