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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Public Sq.

Public Sq.

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion
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  • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

    Basically, they're doing what people slag the liberals off for doing, and saying it's ok because we love America and freedom and shit, just as long as your freedom isn't something we don't approve of.

    And playing contemporary Christian music crosses a number of lines.

    JollyJ Offline
    JollyJ Offline
    Jolly
    wrote on last edited by
    #30

    @Doctor-Phibes said in Public Sq.:

    Basically, they're doing what people slag the liberals off for doing, and saying it's ok because we love America and freedom and shit, just as long as your freedom isn't something we don't approve of.

    And playing contemporary Christian music crosses a number of lines.

    Don't like it, don't go there.

    With this last round of child recruitment for gender transition and pedophilia, the culture wars have heated up.

    I will not support companies who promote that shit.

    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

    CopperC LuFins DadL 2 Replies Last reply
    • JollyJ Jolly

      @Doctor-Phibes said in Public Sq.:

      Basically, they're doing what people slag the liberals off for doing, and saying it's ok because we love America and freedom and shit, just as long as your freedom isn't something we don't approve of.

      And playing contemporary Christian music crosses a number of lines.

      Don't like it, don't go there.

      With this last round of child recruitment for gender transition and pedophilia, the culture wars have heated up.

      I will not support companies who promote that shit.

      CopperC Offline
      CopperC Offline
      Copper
      wrote on last edited by
      #31

      @Jolly said in Public Sq.:

      With this last round of child recruitment for gender transition and pedophilia, the culture wars have heated up.

      That isn't politics, that is criminal.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • JollyJ Jolly

        @Doctor-Phibes said in Public Sq.:

        Basically, they're doing what people slag the liberals off for doing, and saying it's ok because we love America and freedom and shit, just as long as your freedom isn't something we don't approve of.

        And playing contemporary Christian music crosses a number of lines.

        Don't like it, don't go there.

        With this last round of child recruitment for gender transition and pedophilia, the culture wars have heated up.

        I will not support companies who promote that shit.

        LuFins DadL Offline
        LuFins DadL Offline
        LuFins Dad
        wrote on last edited by
        #32

        @Jolly said in Public Sq.:

        @Doctor-Phibes said in Public Sq.:

        Basically, they're doing what people slag the liberals off for doing, and saying it's ok because we love America and freedom and shit, just as long as your freedom isn't something we don't approve of.

        And playing contemporary Christian music crosses a number of lines.

        Don't like it, don't go there.

        With this last round of child recruitment for gender transition and pedophilia, the culture wars have heated up.

        I will not support companies who promote that shit.

        I’m not disagreeing with you on that point. I have no problem with saying I’m done with a product or a store because of the ideological and political mission of that company. Target and Anheuser both stepped in it and I have zero sympathy for them and will gladly join in. I don’t really drink any AB branded beers, so that’s not really an issue and only occasionally went to Target. Easy enough to find an alternative.

        But I’m not going to go searching for a beer brewed by self expressed FREEDOM LOVING PATRIOTS, HOORAH! either.

        The Brad

        1 Reply Last reply
        • JonJ Jon

          @LuFins-Dad said in Public Sq.:

          You don’t get businesses out of politics by shopping at businesses involved with politics.

          This. Business should be a DMZ. I don’t want to live in a world with red and blue companies.

          MikM Away
          MikM Away
          Mik
          wrote on last edited by
          #33

          @Jon said in Public Sq.:

          @LuFins-Dad said in Public Sq.:

          You don’t get businesses out of politics by shopping at businesses involved with politics.

          This. Business should be a DMZ. I don’t want to live in a world with red and blue companies.

          This.

          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

          1 Reply Last reply
          • HoraceH Offline
            HoraceH Offline
            Horace
            wrote on last edited by Horace
            #34

            It's inevitable in a free market that business will target their marketing to certain demographics. If those demographics happen to be political, so be it. There is no coherent principle against that. "I don't want to live in a world where business target political demographics" is not a principle, it's a preference. And the preference in that case is that we wish politics weren't a viable demographic to target, because people aren't personally identified with their politics to the extent that it would make sense to market to them based on that identity. That is a preference I share, but it's not where we are as a culture. People care about the culture war, and I think people have good reason to care. The 'both sides are equal' crowd has less and less purchase to pretend to have arrived at that conclusion thoughtfully.

            Education is extremely important.

            LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
            • LuFins DadL Offline
              LuFins DadL Offline
              LuFins Dad
              wrote on last edited by
              #35

              You know the only real answer? Own enough stock to be able to say “nope”… I know that there are left wing investment groups out there, are there any right wing or independent groups?

              The Brad

              CopperC 1 Reply Last reply
              • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

                You know the only real answer? Own enough stock to be able to say “nope”… I know that there are left wing investment groups out there, are there any right wing or independent groups?

                CopperC Offline
                CopperC Offline
                Copper
                wrote on last edited by
                #36

                @LuFins-Dad said in Public Sq.:

                You know the only real answer? Own enough stock to be able to say “nope”… I know that there are left wing investment groups out there, are there any right wing or independent groups?

                Schwab and Merrill Lynch both asked me if I wanted to invest with a social conscience.

                I insisted on no Yankee fans, other than that, just make money.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

                  @Aqua-Letifer said in Public Sq.:

                  @LuFins-Dad said in Public Sq.:

                  @George-K said in Public Sq.:

                  Chik-Fil-A is different. Their marketing, sales etc really promote nothing other than...chicken. They support Christian causes, but you'd never know it by going into one of their restaurants.

                  There's a distinction to be made between "supporting" and "promoting."

                  There IS a difference between promoting and supporting…

                  Tell that to the scads of liberals who refuse to go there and judge everyone who does. I appreciate that you see the difference as significant, but that has no influence over what customers consider a red vs blue business.

                  Agreed, and I don’t think there’s ever going to be a perfect answer in a free market and free speech environment. There’s always going to be some catering to some sides on both sides. What’s happening now is completely different.

                  This is a challenge that I have to face every single frigging day at work. I manage the largest Yamaha/Bösendorfer piano showroom in Washington, DC and I aLao manage the Institutional Relations department for the company. We have faced criticism for providing pianos for the Trump inaugural events, and we have faced criticism for providing pianos for the Biden administration. We work daily with Churches of all faiths and denominations and treat them all with respect. We also rent pianos on a regular basis to the Washington Gay Men’s Choir. Our pianos have been rented for performances by the Gaithers and at theaters putting on drag shows. I have personally sold pianos to famous political figures that I have absolutely positively disagreed with and some to figures that I have absolutely agreed with and support. Both sides get equivalent service. That’s just the way it is. I don’t get to judge their worthiness as clients and students and it would be stupid of me to do so.

                  Aqua LetiferA Offline
                  Aqua LetiferA Offline
                  Aqua Letifer
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #37

                  @LuFins-Dad said in Public Sq.:

                  This is a challenge that I have to face every single frigging day at work.

                  Same! You know the company photo of the Bud Light marketing team? That's basically every marketing team I've ever had to produce work for in the past 10 years. People like that understand ancient astronauts better than they do non-liberals. It's not that they want to choose a side—they're not even aware other opinions even exist.

                  Please love yourself.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • HoraceH Horace

                    It's inevitable in a free market that business will target their marketing to certain demographics. If those demographics happen to be political, so be it. There is no coherent principle against that. "I don't want to live in a world where business target political demographics" is not a principle, it's a preference. And the preference in that case is that we wish politics weren't a viable demographic to target, because people aren't personally identified with their politics to the extent that it would make sense to market to them based on that identity. That is a preference I share, but it's not where we are as a culture. People care about the culture war, and I think people have good reason to care. The 'both sides are equal' crowd has less and less purchase to pretend to have arrived at that conclusion thoughtfully.

                    LuFins DadL Offline
                    LuFins DadL Offline
                    LuFins Dad
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #38

                    @Horace said in Public Sq.:

                    It's inevitable in a free market that business will target their marketing to certain demographics. If those demographics happen to be political, so be it. There is no coherent principle against that. "I don't want to live in a world where business target political demographics" is not a principle, it's a preference. And the preference in that case is that we wish politics weren't a viable demographic to target, because people aren't personally identified with their politics to the extent that it would make sense to market to them based on that identity. That is a preference I share, but it's not where we are as a culture. People care about the culture war, and I think people have good reason to care. The 'both sides are equal' crowd has less and less purchase to pretend to have arrived at that conclusion thoughtfully.

                    It’s not a matter of saying which side is equal. I just want to be able to buy fucking pack of pull-ups for my potty training toddler without worrying about whether this retailer is promoting the sterilization of youth with mental problems or if the brand of pull-ups is pro-gun control.

                    The Brad

                    HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                    • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

                      @Horace said in Public Sq.:

                      It's inevitable in a free market that business will target their marketing to certain demographics. If those demographics happen to be political, so be it. There is no coherent principle against that. "I don't want to live in a world where business target political demographics" is not a principle, it's a preference. And the preference in that case is that we wish politics weren't a viable demographic to target, because people aren't personally identified with their politics to the extent that it would make sense to market to them based on that identity. That is a preference I share, but it's not where we are as a culture. People care about the culture war, and I think people have good reason to care. The 'both sides are equal' crowd has less and less purchase to pretend to have arrived at that conclusion thoughtfully.

                      It’s not a matter of saying which side is equal. I just want to be able to buy fucking pack of pull-ups for my potty training toddler without worrying about whether this retailer is promoting the sterilization of youth with mental problems or if the brand of pull-ups is pro-gun control.

                      HoraceH Offline
                      HoraceH Offline
                      Horace
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #39

                      @LuFins-Dad I don't see why you have to worry about it. If a shopper wants to shop by price and quality, they can continue to do so. One's individual purchase isn't going to make a difference politically anyway.

                      Education is extremely important.

                      LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
                      • LuFins DadL Offline
                        LuFins DadL Offline
                        LuFins Dad
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #40

                        Look at Miller Lite… After the Bud Light Mulvaney mess, Miller Lite puts out an add that basically says “You know, it really wasn’t great that we as an industry objectified women in our advertising and we want to try to make up for that”. All of a sudden everybody cries “Woke!” And calls for boycotts of Miller Lite… Screw that. Frankly. Miller Lite is a little right on the issue. The industry did go a little overboard and there’s nothing wrong with them trying to make up for it a little.

                        The Brad

                        JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                        • HoraceH Horace

                          @LuFins-Dad I don't see why you have to worry about it. If a shopper wants to shop by price and quality, they can continue to do so. One's individual purchase isn't going to make a difference politically anyway.

                          LuFins DadL Offline
                          LuFins DadL Offline
                          LuFins Dad
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #41

                          @Horace said in Public Sq.:

                          @LuFins-Dad I don't see why you have to worry about it. If a shopper wants to shop by price and quality, they can continue to do so. One's individual purchase isn't going to make a difference politically anyway.

                          I have to worry about it because at some point some potential customer is going to say “oh, you’re not on Public Square. We’re not going to deal with you” and another customer is going to say “Oh, your company doesn’t have pride events. We’re not going to give you this school contract.”

                          It’s ridiculous what the left has done. The answer is not to outdo them on the right. You have a company step over your personal boundaries? Great. Boycott them. But forcing businesses to follow your exact moral compass? Screw you. And that is exactly what this is trying to do. My business is not on one side or the other. We take money to provide instruments, service, and music education. End of story.

                          The Brad

                          HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                          • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

                            @Horace said in Public Sq.:

                            @LuFins-Dad I don't see why you have to worry about it. If a shopper wants to shop by price and quality, they can continue to do so. One's individual purchase isn't going to make a difference politically anyway.

                            I have to worry about it because at some point some potential customer is going to say “oh, you’re not on Public Square. We’re not going to deal with you” and another customer is going to say “Oh, your company doesn’t have pride events. We’re not going to give you this school contract.”

                            It’s ridiculous what the left has done. The answer is not to outdo them on the right. You have a company step over your personal boundaries? Great. Boycott them. But forcing businesses to follow your exact moral compass? Screw you. And that is exactly what this is trying to do. My business is not on one side or the other. We take money to provide instruments, service, and music education. End of story.

                            HoraceH Offline
                            HoraceH Offline
                            Horace
                            wrote on last edited by Horace
                            #42

                            @LuFins-Dad said in Public Sq.:

                            @Horace said in Public Sq.:

                            @LuFins-Dad I don't see why you have to worry about it. If a shopper wants to shop by price and quality, they can continue to do so. One's individual purchase isn't going to make a difference politically anyway.

                            I have to worry about it because at some point some potential customer is going to say “oh, you’re not on Public Square. We’re not going to deal with you” and another customer is going to say “Oh, your company doesn’t have pride events. We’re not going to give you this school contract.”

                            It’s ridiculous what the left has done. The answer is not to outdo them on the right. You have a company step over your personal boundaries? Great. Boycott them. But forcing businesses to follow your exact moral compass? Screw you. And that is exactly what this is trying to do. My business is not on one side or the other. We take money to provide instruments, service, and music education. End of story.

                            I understand it gets more complicated as a business manager. I was only talking about the consumer side of things. I can understand resenting the whole thing if the consumers have an expectation that business play an unwinnable game of choosing sides. It's the old Michael Jordan quote about Republicans buying shoes too.

                            I hope that explicitly not taking sides, and being open about that choice to customers who ask, will be widely accepted by consumers. It's the least lossy strategy clearly.

                            Education is extremely important.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • Aqua LetiferA Offline
                              Aqua LetiferA Offline
                              Aqua Letifer
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #43

                              Taking on the role of the adult in the room by saying, "you know what, we're not infallible but we're making a stand by trying to be for everybody, and you can take a break from politics every time you walk in our store" might be a good marketing move. as

                              Please love yourself.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • MikM Away
                                MikM Away
                                Mik
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #44

                                Works for me.

                                I'd love to see what Adam Smith would say about it. I suspect he'd think the world had all gone mad.

                                “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • CopperC Offline
                                  CopperC Offline
                                  Copper
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #45

                                  Life was so much easier 60 years ago.

                                  I didn't have to worry about who was a republican.

                                  Because I was in Boston, nobody was a republican.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

                                    Look at Miller Lite… After the Bud Light Mulvaney mess, Miller Lite puts out an add that basically says “You know, it really wasn’t great that we as an industry objectified women in our advertising and we want to try to make up for that”. All of a sudden everybody cries “Woke!” And calls for boycotts of Miller Lite… Screw that. Frankly. Miller Lite is a little right on the issue. The industry did go a little overboard and there’s nothing wrong with them trying to make up for it a little.

                                    JollyJ Offline
                                    JollyJ Offline
                                    Jolly
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #46

                                    @LuFins-Dad said in Public Sq.:

                                    Look at Miller Lite… After the Bud Light Mulvaney mess, Miller Lite puts out an add that basically says “You know, it really wasn’t great that we as an industry objectified women in our advertising and we want to try to make up for that”. All of a sudden everybody cries “Woke!” And calls for boycotts of Miller Lite… Screw that. Frankly. Miller Lite is a little right on the issue. The industry did go a little overboard and there’s nothing wrong with them trying to make up for it a little.

                                    It wasn't the content of the ad, as much as the timing of the ad.

                                    Do not surf into the crest of the tsunami.

                                    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • LuFins DadL Offline
                                      LuFins DadL Offline
                                      LuFins Dad
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #47

                                      The good news is the Miller Lite thing went nowhere. I think the Target thing will have some legs, though. Not as deep as Bud Light, but maybe a 10% drop in sales.

                                      The stock price is hard to pin on this. The stock price had already dropped and they had just announced another drop in sales last quarter.

                                      The Brad

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