$50,000 Average
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Explain that to these people...
wrote on 5 Apr 2023, 01:24 last edited by Doctor Phibes 4 May 2023, 01:26@Jolly said in $50,000 Average:
Explain that to these people...
Right, so the poorest town in America has people who can't afford a brand new car. Who would have imagined such a thing?
Were they really rich until Joe Biden became President? I'm assuming that's the point of this discussion, because you don't normally have much sympathy for people earning minimum wage and their inability to live the American Dream,
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The 'average' (mean) salary in the US in 2021 was $97K, which is a lot more than $20/hr.
wrote on 5 Apr 2023, 01:35 last edited by jon-nyc 4 May 2023, 01:36@Doctor-Phibes said in $50,000 Average:
The 'average' (mean) salary in the US in 2021 was $97K, which is a lot more than $20/hr.
Mean /= median.
If Bill Gates walks into a soup kitchen the average net worth might go from $25 to $40MM. The median stays at $25.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in $50,000 Average:
The 'average' (mean) salary in the US in 2021 was $97K, which is a lot more than $20/hr.
Mean /= median.
If Bill Gates walks into a soup kitchen the average net worth might go from $25 to $40MM. The median stays at $25.
wrote on 5 Apr 2023, 01:40 last edited by Doctor Phibes 4 May 2023, 01:45@jon-nyc said in $50,000 Average:
@Doctor-Phibes said in $50,000 Average:
The 'average' (mean) salary in the US in 2021 was $97K, which is a lot more than $20/hr.
Mean /= median.
If Bill Gates walks into a soup kitchen the average net worth might go from $25 to $40MM. The median stays at $25.
Yes, I know - that was my point earlier. The term 'average' is imprecise. The article Jolly quoted doesn't say which average she is using, and neither did the car article. The price of an average car isn't necessarily the same as the average price of a car.
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wrote on 5 Apr 2023, 01:47 last edited by
Do y'all even know any average folk?
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wrote on 5 Apr 2023, 02:05 last edited by
Yes. Do you not?
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wrote on 5 Apr 2023, 02:21 last edited by Doctor Phibes 4 May 2023, 02:22
@Jolly said in $50,000 Average:
Do y'all even know any average folk?
Median?
Because I know a whole bunch of mean people.
We East Coast elite types have servants who meet average people on our behalf.
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wrote on 5 Apr 2023, 02:49 last edited by
@Axtremus said in $50,000 Average:
Yes. Do you not?
Are you friends with anybody that makes $30k/yr?
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@Axtremus said in $50,000 Average:
Yes. Do you not?
Are you friends with anybody that makes $30k/yr?
wrote on 5 Apr 2023, 03:04 last edited by@Jolly said in $50,000 Average:
@Axtremus said in $50,000 Average:
Yes. Do you not?
Are you friends with anybody that makes $30k/yr?
At the risk of a flex, I'd say income diversity is pretty high among the folks I hang out with regularly.
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@Axtremus said in $50,000 Average:
Yes. Do you not?
Are you friends with anybody that makes $30k/yr?
wrote on 5 Apr 2023, 11:26 last edited by Doctor Phibes 4 May 2023, 11:26@Jolly said in $50,000 Average:
@Axtremus said in $50,000 Average:
Yes. Do you not?
Are you friends with anybody that makes $30k/yr?
How is that average? The median wage in Massachusetts is about $65K.
But yes, as it happens.
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wrote on 5 Apr 2023, 14:16 last edited by Jolly 4 May 2023, 14:27
I'm not shocked, but I am a little surprised.
The gist of this thread is about how buying a new car is becoming increasingly difficult for working people. $15/hr is a hair over $31,000/year, provided a person works 40 hour weeks and has some sort of PDO to address an occasional sick day or a few vacation days. Maybe it's because I live in a poorer state, but I know a good many working people that make that kind of money or just a bit more.
Even with both parents working, with one maybe having a bit better job, that's not an easy life. It may be middle class, but it's on the lower level. It's hard to find a home down here in a decent school district for less than $200k. Something like a Santa Fe or an Equinox is $30k, if you can find a base model (hard to find base models right now). Throw in the current interest rate, cost of food, cost of insurance, energy bills and just everyday life, it's hard on that family.
But let's go back to the single person making $30k. One BR apartment is $800/month or more. Even an econobox is $25k after taxes (again, if you can find a base model). Throwin food, fuel, energy costs and everyday expenses...I think $30k/year just barely gets you into the middle class.
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wrote on 5 Apr 2023, 14:19 last edited by
I think your overall point is taken, Jolly. But my only point was that much of that 50 is a choice.
Still, the employee on 15/HR isn’t buying a new Civic either.
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I think your overall point is taken, Jolly. But my only point was that much of that 50 is a choice.
Still, the employee on 15/HR isn’t buying a new Civic either.
wrote on 5 Apr 2023, 14:32 last edited by@jon-nyc said in $50,000 Average:
I think your overall point is taken, Jolly. But my only point was that much of that 50 is a choice.
Still, the employee on 15/HR isn’t buying a new Civic either.
@jon-nyc said in $50,000 Average:
I think your overall point is taken, Jolly. But my only point was that much of that 50 is a choice.
Still, the employee on 15/HR isn’t buying a new Civic either.
I dunno.
How much of it is choice? Everybody isn't as smart as Jon or even George.
Some people, even with hard work, are finding it increasingly hard to get ahead with an "average" job, IMO. -
wrote on 5 Apr 2023, 14:35 last edited by
When I say “much of the 50k is a choice” I mean that most people don’t need to spend that much in a new car but do so to satisfy preferences above and beyond need.
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I'm not shocked, but I am a little surprised.
The gist of this thread is about how buying a new car is becoming increasingly difficult for working people. $15/hr is a hair over $31,000/year, provided a person works 40 hour weeks and has some sort of PDO to address an occasional sick day or a few vacation days. Maybe it's because I live in a poorer state, but I know a good many working people that make that kind of money or just a bit more.
Even with both parents working, with one maybe having a bit better job, that's not an easy life. It may be middle class, but it's on the lower level. It's hard to find a home down here in a decent school district for less than $200k. Something like a Santa Fe or an Equinox is $30k, if you can find a base model (hard to find base models right now). Throw in the current interest rate, cost of food, cost of insurance, energy bills and just everyday life, it's hard on that family.
But let's go back to the single person making $30k. One BR apartment is $800/month or more. Even an econobox is $25k after taxes (again, if you can find a base model). Throwin food, fuel, energy costs and everyday expenses...I think $30k/year just barely gets you into the middle class.
wrote on 5 Apr 2023, 14:49 last edited by Doctor Phibes 4 May 2023, 14:58@Jolly said in $50,000 Average:
I'm not shocked, but I am a little surprised.
The gist of this thread is about how buying a new car is becoming increasingly difficult for working people. $15/hr is a hair over $31,000/year, provided a person works 40 hour weeks and has some sort of PDO to address an occasional sick day or a few vacation days. Maybe it's because I live in a poorer state, but I know a good many working people that make that kind of money or just a bit more.
Even with both parents working, with one maybe having a bit better job, that's not an easy life. It may be middle class, but it's on the lower level. It's hard to find a home down here in a decent school district for less than $200k. Something like a Santa Fe or an Equinox is $30k, if you can find a base model (hard to find base models right now). Throw in the current interest rate, cost of food, cost of insurance, energy bills and just everyday life, it's hard on that family.
But let's go back to the single person making $30k. One BR apartment is $800/month or more. Even an econobox is $25k after taxes (again, if you can find a base model). Throwin food, fuel, energy costs and everyday expenses...I think $30k/year just barely gets you into the middle class.
Sorry, I probably end up arguing for the sake of it sometimes. I'm not disputing the concern - my kids are going to hit this fairly soon. I have no idea how they're going to be able to live independently once they graduate and get starting jobs.
Cars are expensive. Houses are even worse, particularly around here. Even when we moved here 20 years ago we really struggled to find an affordable house and ended up with something quite a bit t smaller than we'd planned for when we left Canada.
It could be worse - Canadian housing has gone nuts. The house we bought for $135K in Ontario in 200o is going for about $700K now.
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@jon-nyc said in $50,000 Average:
I think your overall point is taken, Jolly. But my only point was that much of that 50 is a choice.
Still, the employee on 15/HR isn’t buying a new Civic either.
@jon-nyc said in $50,000 Average:
I think your overall point is taken, Jolly. But my only point was that much of that 50 is a choice.
Still, the employee on 15/HR isn’t buying a new Civic either.
I dunno.
How much of it is choice? Everybody isn't as smart as Jon or even George.
Some people, even with hard work, are finding it increasingly hard to get ahead with an "average" job, IMO.wrote on 5 Apr 2023, 14:49 last edited by@Jolly said in $50,000 Average:
How much of it is choice? Everybody isn't as smart as Jon or even George.
Some people, even with hard work, are finding it increasingly hard to get ahead with an "average" job, IMO.The army won't even take people in the bottom 15% in their aptitude test. There are 10s of millions of adult americans who are not able to work jobs of any complexity. These people are never talked about, because there's no such thing as intelligence. So they're all f*cked.
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@jon-nyc said in $50,000 Average:
I think your overall point is taken, Jolly. But my only point was that much of that 50 is a choice.
Still, the employee on 15/HR isn’t buying a new Civic either.
@jon-nyc said in $50,000 Average:
I think your overall point is taken, Jolly. But my only point was that much of that 50 is a choice.
Still, the employee on 15/HR isn’t buying a new Civic either.
I dunno.
How much of it is choice? Everybody isn't as smart as Jon or even George.
Some people, even with hard work, are finding it increasingly hard to get ahead with an "average" job, IMO.wrote on 5 Apr 2023, 14:55 last edited by@Jolly said in $50,000 Average:
How much of it is choice? Everybody isn't as smart as Jon or even George.
Some people, even with hard work, are finding it increasingly hard to get ahead with an "average" job, IMO.We have a friend who had a pretty dysfunctional upbringing, and was pretty much abandoned by his parents, and now works for slightly more than minimum wage at a supermarket. I have no idea how he gets by. He's not stupid by any means, but is never going to fit into a regular company just because of how he is. He can't afford a car, or a house, and every month is a challenge. It's actually quite heartbreaking.
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@jon-nyc said in $50,000 Average:
I think your overall point is taken, Jolly. But my only point was that much of that 50 is a choice.
Still, the employee on 15/HR isn’t buying a new Civic either.
@jon-nyc said in $50,000 Average:
I think your overall point is taken, Jolly. But my only point was that much of that 50 is a choice.
Still, the employee on 15/HR isn’t buying a new Civic either.
I dunno.
How much of it is choice? Everybody isn't as smart as Jon or even George.
Some people, even with hard work, are finding it increasingly hard to get ahead with an "average" job, IMO.wrote on 5 Apr 2023, 21:04 last edited by@Jolly said in $50,000 Average:
Some people, even with hard work, are finding it increasingly hard to get ahead with an "average" job, IMO.
Why would you expect one with an “average” job to “get ahead”?
(Ahead of what?)
Would it not be more sensible to expect one with an “average” job to be “average”? -
@Jolly said in $50,000 Average:
Some people, even with hard work, are finding it increasingly hard to get ahead with an "average" job, IMO.
Why would you expect one with an “average” job to “get ahead”?
(Ahead of what?)
Would it not be more sensible to expect one with an “average” job to be “average”?wrote on 5 Apr 2023, 21:58 last edited by@Axtremus said in $50,000 Average:
@Jolly said in $50,000 Average:
Some people, even with hard work, are finding it increasingly hard to get ahead with an "average" job, IMO.
Why would you expect one with an “average” job to “get ahead”?
(Ahead of what?)
Would it not be more sensible to expect one with an “average” job to be “average”?Nope.
Not average in today's expectations.
Case-in-point...J.A. lived up the road about a half-mile from my mom and dad. His was a one-income household. He kept a pretty good car...He bought more than one 4-door Skylark from my dad. He even had an old wreck of a pickup to go fishing in or to haul a load of firewood. He lived in an older home that he bought and then put a lot of sweat into the rehab, as he could afford it. His wife, Elaine, was a homemaker, raising heir two children. Every now and then, you might hear of him doing a small side-hustle or his wife doing some ironing.
But that was it.
Oh, they had a vegetable garden like most folks. A few chickens to eat the table scraps. They ate pretty decent, but I wouldn't be surprised if an occasional supper was peas and cornbread, with a fresh sliced tomato.
No, they ate okay, they were dressed clean and neat. J.A. would wear a jacket and tie to church, or maybe even a suit. Wife would have a new frock from J.C. Penney's every now and then. Kids dressed like the rest of us in shirts and jeans.
J.A. worked as a counter man in a local auto parts store. As far as I know, that's all he ever did.
Try that today.
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wrote on 6 Apr 2023, 10:11 last edited by Axtremus 4 Jun 2023, 12:55
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/04/05/car-loan-rates-payments/
Based on Q1 2023 USA data, for new cars:
Average price was $47.6k.
Average financing amount is over $40k.
Average financing term length was over 69 months.And then there is this blurb:
In February, 44.2 percent of new vehicles purchased had a trade-in, and 18 percent of those trade-ins had negative equity, meaning they owed more on the car than it was worth.It seems those buyers just roll the "negative equity" over to the new car loan.
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wrote on 6 Apr 2023, 12:39 last edited by
It all has to be paid for eventually.
And the subject of used cars came up in this thread.
Anybody priced used cars, lately?
