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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Eulogy Virtue and Workaholism of Rich Americans

Eulogy Virtue and Workaholism of Rich Americans

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  • AxtremusA Away
    AxtremusA Away
    Axtremus
    wrote on last edited by Axtremus
    #1

    https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2023/01/american-rich-men-work-less-hours-workism/672895/

    There are two parts to this essay.

    The first talks about a slight reversal in trend: rich Americans (in the top income decile) have been working more and more hours (compared to the general population), then that trend started to reverse a bit. The researchers think this is by choice rather than because of any pandemic related externalities.

    The second part talks about "résumé virtue" vs. "eulogy virtue," how the American society values each. Interesting observation and discussion on what American parents wish for and teach their children in this context.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • 89th8 Offline
      89th8 Offline
      89th
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      TLDR is working hard or being rich ok?

      1 Reply Last reply
      • HoraceH Online
        HoraceH Online
        Horace
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Ax do you purchase individual subscriptions to all these sources you post links to, or do you get some sort of package deal?

        I would like to read this article, but I do not subscribe to The Atlantic.

        Education is extremely important.

        AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
        • HoraceH Horace

          Ax do you purchase individual subscriptions to all these sources you post links to, or do you get some sort of package deal?

          I would like to read this article, but I do not subscribe to The Atlantic.

          AxtremusA Away
          AxtremusA Away
          Axtremus
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          @Horace said in Eulogy Virtue and Workaholism of Rich Americans:

          I would like to read this article, but I do not subscribe to The Atlantic.

          Consider looking for it in Apple News.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • HoraceH Online
            HoraceH Online
            Horace
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            I was curious about the 'eulogy virtue'. It sounds related to something I pondered as I watched the reaction to Larry's passing.

            Education is extremely important.

            X 1 Reply Last reply
            • HoraceH Horace

              I was curious about the 'eulogy virtue'. It sounds related to something I pondered as I watched the reaction to Larry's passing.

              X Offline
              X Offline
              xenon
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              @Horace It's this guy's idea:

              https://www.awakin.org/v2/read/view.php?tid=1083

              Even if you value eulogy virtue more, it's hard to break out of resume virtue. I rationalize it by saying that I'm investing to have more flexibility to pursue more eulogy virtue in the future.

              First step to recovery I guess...

              HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
              • AxtremusA Away
                AxtremusA Away
                Axtremus
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Indeed David Brooks first coined the terms “eulogy virtue” vs. “résumé virtue,” then Derek Thompson (author of the Atlantic article linked to in the opening post) references Brooks’ idea/terminology in his workaholism article to comment on the parenting/upbringing of the younger generations of Americans.

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                • X xenon

                  @Horace It's this guy's idea:

                  https://www.awakin.org/v2/read/view.php?tid=1083

                  Even if you value eulogy virtue more, it's hard to break out of resume virtue. I rationalize it by saying that I'm investing to have more flexibility to pursue more eulogy virtue in the future.

                  First step to recovery I guess...

                  HoraceH Online
                  HoraceH Online
                  Horace
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  @xenon said in Eulogy Virtue and Workaholism of Rich Americans:

                  @Horace It's this guy's idea:

                  https://www.awakin.org/v2/read/view.php?tid=1083

                  Thanks for the link Xenon.

                  About once a month I run across a person who radiates an inner light. These people can be in any walk of life. They seem deeply good. They listen well. They make you feel funny and valued. You often catch them looking after other people and as they do so their laugh is musical and their manner is infused with gratitude. They are not thinking about what wonderful work they are doing. They are not thinking about themselves at all.

                  When I meet such a person it brightens my whole day. But I confess I often have a sadder thought: It occurs to me that I’ve achieved a decent level of career success, but I have not achieved that. I have not achieved that generosity of spirit, or that depth of character.

                  A few years ago I realized that I wanted to be a bit more like those people. I realized that if I wanted to do that I was going to have to work harder to save my own soul. I was going to have to have the sort of moral adventures that produce that kind of goodness. I was going to have to be better at balancing my life.

                  It occurred to me that there were two sets of virtues, the résumé virtues and the eulogy virtues. The résumé virtues are the skills you bring to the marketplace. The eulogy virtues are the ones that are talked about at your funeral — whether you were kind, brave, honest or faithful. Were you capable of deep love?

                  We all know that the eulogy virtues are more important than the résumé ones.

                  Mr Brooks handwaved an emotionally true argument about nothing, and then claimed we all agree.

                  My guess is that even after these epiphanies, Mr Brooks chooses not to apportion his time to random helpfulness, in any way that feel like work to him.

                  But then again, part of his hand waved argument is that these helpful souls are purely happy because they are engaged in the act of helping. Perhaps there is no such thing as help which feels like work, to them.

                  It's fun to believe in Unicorns. Or at least, write about that belief, in a way that others actually take seriously. Maybe he has a future as a cryptozoologist.

                  Education is extremely important.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • Doctor PhibesD Offline
                    Doctor PhibesD Offline
                    Doctor Phibes
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    Nobody ever says anything bad at a eulogy

                    I was only joking

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • CopperC Offline
                      CopperC Offline
                      Copper
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      It's not nice to call Dewey nobody.

                      But since he is probably still alive, it might be ok.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • MikM Away
                        MikM Away
                        Mik
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        Material life vs social life. First time I’ve heard them described as virtues. We used to call them wealth and personality.

                        “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • Aqua LetiferA Offline
                          Aqua LetiferA Offline
                          Aqua Letifer
                          wrote on last edited by Aqua Letifer
                          #12

                          I honestly don't get any of this.

                          It occurred to me that there were two sets of virtues, the résumé virtues and the eulogy virtues. The résumé virtues are the skills you bring to the marketplace. The eulogy virtues are the ones that are talked about at your funeral — whether you were kind, brave, honest or faithful. Were you capable of deep love?

                          Really, it's those two things? That's life? Build your career and be a saint?

                          "Lips" Kudlow from freaking Anvil even has a better perspective: "All you've got are your relationships and your experiences."

                          Separate that out a little more, and you've got:

                          • are you learning what you need to learn to be helpful to yourself (and then by extension, other people)
                          • are you building on your professional skills so that you don't stagnate, and you learn to contribute in greater ways to and for others
                          • are you doing right by your friends and family
                          • are you having fun by doing constructive things with your time

                          If you're at least attempting to get on some kind of upward trajectory with those, those two silly pop morality notions of virtue work themselves out.

                          Please love yourself.

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