30% national sales tax?
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I actually agree that everybody should pay taxes. What isn't realistic is the idea that everybody should pay the same percentage.
@Doctor-Phibes said in 30% national sales tax?:
I actually agree that everybody should pay taxes. What isn't realistic is the idea that everybody should pay the same percentage.
From what I read there are “prebates”. Everybody gets $X dollars per month to cover the taxes that would be paid up to a certain expenditure level. I didn’t see the actual numbers, but the intent is that you aren’t effectively paying taxes until you reach middle class expenditures.
It’s a badly conceived publicity move, but there are elements that would close the loopholes used by a lot of wealthy people.
It would also close the loop on a lot of people that evade taxes through cash transactions. 10% cash discounts from contractors become a thing of the past…
The Brad
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It's funny, all those management courses told me that money wasn't a good motivator to make people succeed.
Of course, they were being run by people who had to pay the wages.
@Doctor-Phibes said in 30% national sales tax?:
It's funny, all those management courses told me that money wasn't a good motivator to make people succeed.
Of course, they were being run by people who had to pay the wages.
I once worked at a non-profit where the CEO actually presented this idea to us in an all-staff. But the manner in which he did so was just as amazing.
"I've been doing a lot of digging to learn how to better serve the rest of you, and based on the latest research from the Covey Leadership Center, it turns out that the rest of you are not actually motivated by money, but the mission of the organization you wish to serve!"
The rest of the meeting completely derailed when the entire staff fumbled terribly through how to say they care very much about their wages without getting fired.
Quite fucking obviously, not everyone makes enough to take the problem of money off the table.
That guy was a cunt.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in 30% national sales tax?:
I actually agree that everybody should pay taxes. What isn't realistic is the idea that everybody should pay the same percentage.
From what I read there are “prebates”. Everybody gets $X dollars per month to cover the taxes that would be paid up to a certain expenditure level. I didn’t see the actual numbers, but the intent is that you aren’t effectively paying taxes until you reach middle class expenditures.
It’s a badly conceived publicity move, but there are elements that would close the loopholes used by a lot of wealthy people.
It would also close the loop on a lot of people that evade taxes through cash transactions. 10% cash discounts from contractors become a thing of the past…
@LuFins-Dad said in 30% national sales tax?:
It would also close the loop on a lot of people that evade taxes through cash transactions. 10% cash discounts from contractors become a thing of the past…
How so? Instead of the motivation coming from the contractor who doesn’t want to pay income taxes it would come from the homeowner who doesn’t want to pay 30% extra.
You were warned.
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The idea that the wealthy would have their tax loopholes closed is a little unicornesque.
If it were true, a cynic would probably question whether the Republicans were serious about the suggestion. Thank goodness nobody here fits that description.
Personally, I don't want a massive tax cut for the super-rich. Does anybody (with the obvious exception of the super-rich)?
And the idea that the folks who are already working two jobs in order to put food on their family would somehow benefit from the extra motivation is just plain bollocks. You're trying to punish people who may be gaming the benefits system, but you're going to punish everybody in that wage-bracket - there are plenty of people working their asses off for not much reward.
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@LuFins-Dad said in 30% national sales tax?:
It would also close the loop on a lot of people that evade taxes through cash transactions. 10% cash discounts from contractors become a thing of the past…
How so? Instead of the motivation coming from the contractor who doesn’t want to pay income taxes it would come from the homeowner who doesn’t want to pay 30% extra.
@jon-nyc said in 30% national sales tax?:
@LuFins-Dad said in 30% national sales tax?:
It would also close the loop on a lot of people that evade taxes through cash transactions. 10% cash discounts from contractors become a thing of the past…
How so? Instead of the motivation coming from the contractor who doesn’t want to pay income taxes it would come from the homeowner who doesn’t want to pay 30% extra.
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There’s no benefit to the contractor to offer the discount. A negotiation is to find mutual benefit. There is no mutual benefit there.
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The contract will be the one paying the sales taxes on the materials. They will pass that costs along…
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Unless I’m mistaken, there will not be a sales tax on sevice costs/labor.
The Brad
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It's funny, all those management courses told me that money wasn't a good motivator to make people succeed.
Of course, they were being run by people who had to pay the wages.
@Doctor-Phibes said in 30% national sales tax?:
It's funny, all those management courses told me that money wasn't a good motivator to make people succeed.
Of course, they were being run by people who had to pay the wages.
Right now, among certain vocations within healthcare, there is a bidding war. Hospitals are partially to blame, because of what they've paid the travelers...When you're working side-by-side with someone making $10-$15 more per hour and you're more efficient with more responsibility, guess what? You quit and become a traveler, too. Hey, 401k's are portable.
That's happened in nursing. It's happened in the lab. Don't know about the rest of the ancillaries.
Money talks, bullshit walks.
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@jon-nyc said in 30% national sales tax?:
@LuFins-Dad said in 30% national sales tax?:
It would also close the loop on a lot of people that evade taxes through cash transactions. 10% cash discounts from contractors become a thing of the past…
How so? Instead of the motivation coming from the contractor who doesn’t want to pay income taxes it would come from the homeowner who doesn’t want to pay 30% extra.
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There’s no benefit to the contractor to offer the discount. A negotiation is to find mutual benefit. There is no mutual benefit there.
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The contract will be the one paying the sales taxes on the materials. They will pass that costs along…
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Unless I’m mistaken, there will not be a sales tax on sevice costs/labor.
@LuFins-Dad said in 30% national sales tax?:
- Unless I’m mistaken, there will not be a sales tax on sevice costs/labor.
The American economy is over 75% "services." After you exempt 75% of the economy from taxes, factor in the exclusions of "essentials" and/or advance credits for the low income folks ... what tax rate you figure will need to apply to the remaining less than 25% of the "goods" economy to make the numbers work?
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Its possible to design progressive brackets that don’t penalize as income increases. To wit:
Up to 50,000, tax is 15%. On the next 25,000 you pay 20%, and so on. Under current brackets if you made 75,000 you would pay 20% on all of it. It’s fixable.
“I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill
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Its possible to design progressive brackets that don’t penalize as income increases. To wit:
Up to 50,000, tax is 15%. On the next 25,000 you pay 20%, and so on. Under current brackets if you made 75,000 you would pay 20% on all of it. It’s fixable.
@Mik said in 30% national sales tax?:
Its possible to design progressive brackets that don’t penalize as income increases. To wit:
Up to 50,000, tax is 15%. On the next 25,000 you pay 20%, and so on. Under current brackets if you made 75,000 you would pay 20% on all of it. It’s fixable.
Absolutely, there can always be changes made. The flat rate is an extreme solution that doesn't sense since apart from anything else it's politically impossible to implement.
I was only joking
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Its possible to design progressive brackets that don’t penalize as income increases. To wit:
Up to 50,000, tax is 15%. On the next 25,000 you pay 20%, and so on. Under current brackets if you made 75,000 you would pay 20% on all of it. It’s fixable.
@Mik said in 30% national sales tax?:
Its possible to design progressive brackets that don’t penalize as income increases. To wit:
Up to 50,000, tax is 15%. On the next 25,000 you pay 20%, and so on.
That’s already how the federal income tax is assessed, and has been for a long time. Hence the word “margin” in the term “marginal tax rate.”
Under current brackets if you made 75,000 you would pay 20% on all of it.
Is that how Ohio’s income tax works?
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@Mik said in 30% national sales tax?:
Its possible to design progressive brackets that don’t penalize as income increases. To wit:
Up to 50,000, tax is 15%. On the next 25,000 you pay 20%, and so on. Under current brackets if you made 75,000 you would pay 20% on all of it. It’s fixable.
Absolutely, there can always be changes made. The flat rate is an extreme solution that doesn't sense since apart from anything else it's politically impossible to implement.
@Doctor-Phibes said in 30% national sales tax?:
@Mik said in 30% national sales tax?:
Its possible to design progressive brackets that don’t penalize as income increases. To wit:
Up to 50,000, tax is 15%. On the next 25,000 you pay 20%, and so on. Under current brackets if you made 75,000 you would pay 20% on all of it. It’s fixable.
Absolutely, there can always be changes made. The flat rate is an extreme solution that doesn't sense since apart from anything else it's politically impossible to implement.
I think we are to a point where only an extreme solution will work. Our tax code has become byzantine and indecipherable by the people who wrote it and the people who enforce it.
Flat tax or national VAT...And right now, I'm leaning towards no exceptions. The world will not end. We can survive and prosper, because when people know the rules, they'll play to win.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in 30% national sales tax?:
@Mik said in 30% national sales tax?:
Its possible to design progressive brackets that don’t penalize as income increases. To wit:
Up to 50,000, tax is 15%. On the next 25,000 you pay 20%, and so on. Under current brackets if you made 75,000 you would pay 20% on all of it. It’s fixable.
Absolutely, there can always be changes made. The flat rate is an extreme solution that doesn't sense since apart from anything else it's politically impossible to implement.
I think we are to a point where only an extreme solution will work. Our tax code has become byzantine and indecipherable by the people who wrote it and the people who enforce it.
Flat tax or national VAT...And right now, I'm leaning towards no exceptions. The world will not end. We can survive and prosper, because when people know the rules, they'll play to win.
@Jolly said in 30% national sales tax?:
@Doctor-Phibes said in 30% national sales tax?:
@Mik said in 30% national sales tax?:
Its possible to design progressive brackets that don’t penalize as income increases. To wit:
Up to 50,000, tax is 15%. On the next 25,000 you pay 20%, and so on. Under current brackets if you made 75,000 you would pay 20% on all of it. It’s fixable.
Absolutely, there can always be changes made. The flat rate is an extreme solution that doesn't sense since apart from anything else it's politically impossible to implement.
I think we are to a point where only an extreme solution will work. Our tax code has become byzantine and indecipherable by the people who wrote it and the people who enforce it.
Flat tax or national VAT...And right now, I'm leaning towards no exceptions. The world will not end. We can survive and prosper, because when people know the rules, they'll play to win.
I would really really like to sleep with a bunch of supermodels. That's not going to happen either.
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With enough money or explosives, anything can happen.
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@Jolly said in 30% national sales tax?:
With enough money or explosives, anything can happen.
I want them to blow me, not blow me up.
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I wonder what percentage of renters in the USA could afford a 30% hike on their rent, even with no federal income tax.
You were warned.
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@Mik said in 30% national sales tax?:
Its possible to design progressive brackets that don’t penalize as income increases. To wit:
Up to 50,000, tax is 15%. On the next 25,000 you pay 20%, and so on.
That’s already how the federal income tax is assessed, and has been for a long time. Hence the word “margin” in the term “marginal tax rate.”
Under current brackets if you made 75,000 you would pay 20% on all of it.
Is that how Ohio’s income tax works?
@Axtremus said in 30% national sales tax?:
@Mik said in 30% national sales tax?:
Its possible to design progressive brackets that don’t penalize as income increases. To wit:
Up to 50,000, tax is 15%. On the next 25,000 you pay 20%, and so on.
That’s already how the federal income tax is assessed, and has been for a long time. Hence the word “margin” in the term “marginal tax rate.”
Under current brackets if you made 75,000 you would pay 20% on all of it.
Is that how Ohio’s income tax works?
You're right on that. So how can the progressive brackets be punitive? As you make more, yes, taxes take more of that portion, but your income still rises.
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A national sales tax has the potential to be simpler and more efficient than an income tax, as it would only apply to consumption rather than income. This could make compliance and enforcement easier and potentially reduce the need for a large and complex tax code. Additionally, a sales tax may be less susceptible to evasion and could potentially raise more revenue from tourists and from high-income individuals who consume a lot.
On the other hand, a national sales tax would likely be regressive, meaning that it would disproportionately affect low-income households, as they spend a larger portion of their income on consumption than high-income households. This could be mitigated by providing rebates or other forms of relief to low-income households, but that would increase the complexity of the tax system.
An income tax, on the other hand, is generally considered to be progressive, as it taxes higher earners at a higher rate. This can help to reduce income inequality. Income tax also allows for deductions and credits that can be used to incentivize certain behaviors or to provide relief to certain groups of taxpayers. However, income tax systems can be complex and difficult for individuals and businesses to comply with, and enforcement can be challenging.
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I wonder what percentage of renters in the USA could afford a 30% hike on their rent, even with no federal income tax.
