Organic?
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wrote on 15 Jan 2023, 17:07 last edited by
In the "Chicken Coop" thread, Jolly made a comment about "organic eggs."
So many foods are advertised as being "organic." What does that actually mean? Is there a noticeable difference in taste? Is it worth the extra cost?
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wrote on 15 Jan 2023, 18:03 last edited by
It's a marketing gimmick which allows them to charge more. Personally I use it as a convenient packaging signal that I should buy the adjacent, non-organic product of the same type.
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wrote on 15 Jan 2023, 18:05 last edited by Mik
I like buying eggs from local farmers, but don't do so as regularly in winter. The organic designation itself doesn't buy you much in the store. It's a bit like the difference between free range, which just means the cage doors in the factory farm aren't closed, and pasture raised, which means they forage around for bugs and stuff outside.
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It's a marketing gimmick which allows them to charge more. Personally I use it as a convenient packaging signal that I should buy the adjacent, non-organic product of the same type.
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I like buying eggs from local farmers, but don't do so as regularly in winter. The organic designation itself doesn't buy you much in the store. It's a bit like the difference between free range, which just means the cage doors in the factory farm aren't closed, and pasture raised, which means they forage around for bugs and stuff outside.
wrote on 15 Jan 2023, 18:49 last edited by -
wrote on 15 Jan 2023, 21:43 last edited by
I didn’t see this thread when I posted in the other… By its nature, all eggs are made up of organic matter. No such thing as inorganic.
From the marketing thing, yeah, I get it. But my wife says she feels physically better with grass fed milk? We’ll buy grass fed milk. Wife says she wants non-hormone “organic” chicken breast because it’s healthier? Then we buy it, because it’s definitely healthier for me…
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I didn’t see this thread when I posted in the other… By its nature, all eggs are made up of organic matter. No such thing as inorganic.
From the marketing thing, yeah, I get it. But my wife says she feels physically better with grass fed milk? We’ll buy grass fed milk. Wife says she wants non-hormone “organic” chicken breast because it’s healthier? Then we buy it, because it’s definitely healthier for me…
wrote on 16 Jan 2023, 17:52 last edited by@LuFins-Dad said in Organic?:
I didn’t see this thread when I posted in the other… By its nature, all eggs are made up of organic matter. No such thing as inorganic.
That's a child's answer. They're not using "organic" in the chemical sense. Organic in this context means eggs that came from chickens that are fed only organic feed free of animal by-products, synthetic fertilizers, pesticides or chemical additives.
The debate really should be about whether or not that distinction matters. Your word games don't mean anything.
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wrote on 16 Jan 2023, 18:05 last edited by
It's somewhat disingenuous in the first place, kinda like the GMO debate. Corn pollen wanders on the wind, even with crop isolation techniques.
Similarly, products labeled as organic often are not, if we go by strict definitions.
Organic food is produced by farmers who emphasize the use of renewable resources and the conservation of soil and water to enhance environmental quality for future generations. Organic meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy products come from animals that are given no antibiotics or growth hormones. Organic food is produced without using most conventional pesticides; fertilizers made with synthetic ingredients or sewage sludge; bioengineering; or ionizing radiation. Before a product can be labeled "organic," a Government-approved certifier inspects the farm where the food is grown to make sure the farmer is following all the rules necessary to meet USDA organic standards. Companies that handle or process organic food before it gets to your local supermarket or restaurant must be certified, too.
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It's somewhat disingenuous in the first place, kinda like the GMO debate. Corn pollen wanders on the wind, even with crop isolation techniques.
Similarly, products labeled as organic often are not, if we go by strict definitions.
Organic food is produced by farmers who emphasize the use of renewable resources and the conservation of soil and water to enhance environmental quality for future generations. Organic meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy products come from animals that are given no antibiotics or growth hormones. Organic food is produced without using most conventional pesticides; fertilizers made with synthetic ingredients or sewage sludge; bioengineering; or ionizing radiation. Before a product can be labeled "organic," a Government-approved certifier inspects the farm where the food is grown to make sure the farmer is following all the rules necessary to meet USDA organic standards. Companies that handle or process organic food before it gets to your local supermarket or restaurant must be certified, too.
wrote on 16 Jan 2023, 18:20 last edited byIt's somewhat disingenuous in the first place, kinda like the GMO debate. Corn pollen wanders on the wind, even with crop isolation techniques.
The outcome might be entirely the same and calling something "organic" might be pointless in terms of what happens to your body after you ingest the stuff. But that's different from saying organic just means they put a label on it and made it more expensive, and there are literally no differences. That's ridiculous.
Around here, there are egg farmers who do the "yep, free range means the cage door is open" bullshit, granola egg farmers who are full-on health nuts with respect to how they treat their chickens and everything in between. Sorry, regardless of whether the differences actually matter, there are still massive differences. Playing these games is stupid.
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@LuFins-Dad said in Organic?:
I didn’t see this thread when I posted in the other… By its nature, all eggs are made up of organic matter. No such thing as inorganic.
That's a child's answer. They're not using "organic" in the chemical sense. Organic in this context means eggs that came from chickens that are fed only organic feed free of animal by-products, synthetic fertilizers, pesticides or chemical additives.
The debate really should be about whether or not that distinction matters. Your word games don't mean anything.
wrote on 16 Jan 2023, 18:47 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in Organic?:
@LuFins-Dad said in Organic?:
I didn’t see this thread when I posted in the other… By its nature, all eggs are made up of organic matter. No such thing as inorganic.
That's a child's answer. They're not using "organic" in the chemical sense. Organic in this context means eggs that came from chickens that are fed only organic feed free of animal by-products, synthetic fertilizers, pesticides or chemical additives.
The debate really should be about whether or not that distinction matters. Your word games don't mean anything.
I'm allowed to play infantile word games if I want.
Beyond that, no, organic feed uses pesticides, just "non-chemical" ones, whatever the hell that means. Organic pesticides carry a fair amount of toxicity, as well. Arsenic from seafood used to be a common one used for organic farming, but the word carried too much negativity and eventually they banned it. Boron is still used quite often as an "organic" fertilizer.
My general rule of thumb is whether or not I will eat the skin or surface of the fruit or vegetable. Root vegetables, apples, etc.. I will go ahead and get the organic for Karla's sake.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Organic?:
@LuFins-Dad said in Organic?:
I didn’t see this thread when I posted in the other… By its nature, all eggs are made up of organic matter. No such thing as inorganic.
That's a child's answer. They're not using "organic" in the chemical sense. Organic in this context means eggs that came from chickens that are fed only organic feed free of animal by-products, synthetic fertilizers, pesticides or chemical additives.
The debate really should be about whether or not that distinction matters. Your word games don't mean anything.
I'm allowed to play infantile word games if I want.
Beyond that, no, organic feed uses pesticides, just "non-chemical" ones, whatever the hell that means. Organic pesticides carry a fair amount of toxicity, as well. Arsenic from seafood used to be a common one used for organic farming, but the word carried too much negativity and eventually they banned it. Boron is still used quite often as an "organic" fertilizer.
My general rule of thumb is whether or not I will eat the skin or surface of the fruit or vegetable. Root vegetables, apples, etc.. I will go ahead and get the organic for Karla's sake.
wrote on 16 Jan 2023, 19:30 last edited byThis post is deleted! -
wrote on 16 Jan 2023, 19:35 last edited by
Bad mood, Aqua?
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wrote on 16 Jan 2023, 19:52 last edited by
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This post is deleted!
wrote on 16 Jan 2023, 19:58 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in Organic?:
I'm allowed to play infantile word games if I want.
Everyone's entitled to declare themselves the intellectual winner by flipping the board over but no one is required to consider that a legitimate move.
I didn't declare any kind of winner, just enjoying my devilishly clever (to me) wit!
In other words, "I don't understand the difference, therefore patently there is none and I'm smarter than everyone else who doesn't know that." It's the same rationale behind moon landing deniers.
No, I understand perfectly well what they are trying to say. I just think that twisting the word chemical to mean any chemical compound that doesn't occur naturally is disingenuous and confusing to the general public. Particularly the general public in California, who have been known to do things like ban DiHydrogen Monoxide within a city, for instance. I also find your equating my desire (for better descriptors and more precise language) to moon landing deniers to be a little out there.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Organic?:
Eggs are seafood now?
Some eggs are, yes. Don't see what that has to do with the rest of this?
Want to know what I truly think on the subject? I think there's some good things in the "organic" produce thing and some bad. I think the claims made on both sides are likely overly exaggerated. I think that in some cases it is about making $ and in others it is a sincere desire for healthier foods. I think you will find studies supporting both arguments. I also generally don't think it really matters a whole lot except for some people that may have allergies and particular sensitivities. I also think that if you are going to feed 7 billion people, some compromises may need to be made, but we do need to be careful.
I also think MOM's Organic Market https://momsorganicmarket.com/ does things extremely well, and I find most of their offerings to be pretty equivalent in price to the regular grocery stores. I think they genuinely care and I don't mind supporting them with my business. But I'm also not going to have a conniption fit over eating an apple that was sprayed with Fontelis.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Organic?:
I'm allowed to play infantile word games if I want.
Everyone's entitled to declare themselves the intellectual winner by flipping the board over but no one is required to consider that a legitimate move.
I didn't declare any kind of winner, just enjoying my devilishly clever (to me) wit!
In other words, "I don't understand the difference, therefore patently there is none and I'm smarter than everyone else who doesn't know that." It's the same rationale behind moon landing deniers.
No, I understand perfectly well what they are trying to say. I just think that twisting the word chemical to mean any chemical compound that doesn't occur naturally is disingenuous and confusing to the general public. Particularly the general public in California, who have been known to do things like ban DiHydrogen Monoxide within a city, for instance. I also find your equating my desire (for better descriptors and more precise language) to moon landing deniers to be a little out there.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Organic?:
Eggs are seafood now?
Some eggs are, yes. Don't see what that has to do with the rest of this?
Want to know what I truly think on the subject? I think there's some good things in the "organic" produce thing and some bad. I think the claims made on both sides are likely overly exaggerated. I think that in some cases it is about making $ and in others it is a sincere desire for healthier foods. I think you will find studies supporting both arguments. I also generally don't think it really matters a whole lot except for some people that may have allergies and particular sensitivities. I also think that if you are going to feed 7 billion people, some compromises may need to be made, but we do need to be careful.
I also think MOM's Organic Market https://momsorganicmarket.com/ does things extremely well, and I find most of their offerings to be pretty equivalent in price to the regular grocery stores. I think they genuinely care and I don't mind supporting them with my business. But I'm also not going to have a conniption fit over eating an apple that was sprayed with Fontelis.
wrote on 16 Jan 2023, 20:04 last edited by@LuFins-Dad said in Organic?:
Want to know what I truly think on the subject? I think there's some good things in the "organic" produce thing and some bad. I think the claims made on both sides are likely overly exaggerated. I think that in some cases it is about making $ and in others it is a sincere desire for healthier foods. I think you will find studies supporting both arguments. I also generally don't think it really matters a whole lot except for some people that may have allergies and particular sensitivities. I also think that if you are going to feed 7 billion people, some compromises may need to be made, but we do need to be careful.
I also think MOM's Organic Market https://momsorganicmarket.com/ does things extremely well, and I find most of their offerings to be pretty equivalent in price to the regular grocery stores. I think they genuinely care and I don't mind supporting them with my business. But I'm also not going to have a conniption fit over eating an apple that was sprayed with Fontelis.
That's legit. I'm a massive supporter of MOM's as well. (Naked Lunch bowls FTW.)
Not because I think their produce is imbued with powerful lib magicks that makes the food better. Because they genuinely give a shit and they try. I've spoken to the managers of both the Rockville and College Park locations. (Which is easy to do, they're often around out front.) They really don't want to peddle bad shit as a good deal. I don't get that same impression at Giant, so I prefer MOM's when I can get up there.
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@LuFins-Dad said in Organic?:
Want to know what I truly think on the subject? I think there's some good things in the "organic" produce thing and some bad. I think the claims made on both sides are likely overly exaggerated. I think that in some cases it is about making $ and in others it is a sincere desire for healthier foods. I think you will find studies supporting both arguments. I also generally don't think it really matters a whole lot except for some people that may have allergies and particular sensitivities. I also think that if you are going to feed 7 billion people, some compromises may need to be made, but we do need to be careful.
I also think MOM's Organic Market https://momsorganicmarket.com/ does things extremely well, and I find most of their offerings to be pretty equivalent in price to the regular grocery stores. I think they genuinely care and I don't mind supporting them with my business. But I'm also not going to have a conniption fit over eating an apple that was sprayed with Fontelis.
That's legit. I'm a massive supporter of MOM's as well. (Naked Lunch bowls FTW.)
Not because I think their produce is imbued with powerful lib magicks that makes the food better. Because they genuinely give a shit and they try. I've spoken to the managers of both the Rockville and College Park locations. (Which is easy to do, they're often around out front.) They really don't want to peddle bad shit as a good deal. I don't get that same impression at Giant, so I prefer MOM's when I can get up there.
wrote on 16 Jan 2023, 20:10 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in Organic?:
(Naked Lunch bowls FTW.)
Moler Bowl...
Cleans me out something terrible for 24 hours afterward, but man it is tasty.
