Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field
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wrote on 3 Jan 2023, 18:47 last edited by
Because of seeding implications, LuFin may have the right idea.
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@Mik said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
Why was last night different? Because he essentially died on the field. His teammates saw them doing CPR and administering the defib. Shazier was conscious and clearly alive. There's a difference in emotional impact, and football is an emotional game.
I actually agree with stopping the game, however if you watch, for example, the 1994 San Marino Grand Prix it's hard to describe that as less impactful from an emotional perspective. And this was a race where a driver had already died during the qualifying session.
Possibly, the question shouldn't be why was the game stopped, but why on earth wasn't the Grand Prix cancelled. Maybe it would be today, but to be honest I doubt it.
wrote on 3 Jan 2023, 18:53 last edited by Mik 1 Mar 2023, 18:53@Doctor-Phibes said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
@Mik said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
Why was last night different? Because he essentially died on the field. His teammates saw them doing CPR and administering the defib. Shazier was conscious and clearly alive. There's a difference in emotional impact, and football is an emotional game.
I actually agree with stopping the game, however if you watch, for example, the 1994 San Marino Grand Prix it's hard to describe that as less impactful from an emotional perspective. And this was a race where a driver had already died during the qualifying session.
Possibly, the question shouldn't be why was the game stopped, but why on earth wasn't the Grand Prix cancelled. Maybe it would be today, but to be honest I doubt it.
Racing is a sport in which fatalities are far more common. It can be expected that each season will have one or more. This is not the case with football. Also the drivers are all on different teams.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
@Mik said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
Why was last night different? Because he essentially died on the field. His teammates saw them doing CPR and administering the defib. Shazier was conscious and clearly alive. There's a difference in emotional impact, and football is an emotional game.
I actually agree with stopping the game, however if you watch, for example, the 1994 San Marino Grand Prix it's hard to describe that as less impactful from an emotional perspective. And this was a race where a driver had already died during the qualifying session.
Possibly, the question shouldn't be why was the game stopped, but why on earth wasn't the Grand Prix cancelled. Maybe it would be today, but to be honest I doubt it.
Racing is a sport in which fatalities are far more common. It can be expected that each season will have one or more. This is not the case with football. Also the drivers are all on different teams.
wrote on 3 Jan 2023, 18:58 last edited by@Mik said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
@Mik said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
Why was last night different? Because he essentially died on the field. His teammates saw them doing CPR and administering the defib. Shazier was conscious and clearly alive. There's a difference in emotional impact, and football is an emotional game.
I actually agree with stopping the game, however if you watch, for example, the 1994 San Marino Grand Prix it's hard to describe that as less impactful from an emotional perspective. And this was a race where a driver had already died during the qualifying session.
Possibly, the question shouldn't be why was the game stopped, but why on earth wasn't the Grand Prix cancelled. Maybe it would be today, but to be honest I doubt it.
Racing is a sport in which fatalities are far more common. It can be expected that each season will have one or more. This is not the case with football. Also the drivers are all on different teams.
No, that's not really true anymore. Ratzenberger and Senna were the first Formula 1 deaths in over a decade. Since then there has only been one additional driver death. Perhaps motor racing as a whole is more dangerous, but even so, having sat through a couple of televised deaths, and experiencing the awful sick feeling that accompanies them, I don't really think there's that much of a difference.
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wrote on 3 Jan 2023, 19:04 last edited by
George, do you think they have Hamlin on ECMO?
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wrote on 3 Jan 2023, 19:10 last edited by
This incident reminds me of:
- Christian Eriksen, soccer (sorry, football @Doctor-Phibes) player who collapsed on the field with a heart attack. The game was rescheduled for that night, and he recovered. Happened in 2021
- John McSherry, 1996 umpire who died on the field. "He was the heaviest MLB umpire at 328 pounds, had been having problems with his heart. But the umpire, who began umpiring in the National League in 1971, doesn't want to miss opening day, and so he postponed an exam by a doctor until tomorrow, an off day. 7 pitches into the Reds-Expos game at Cincinnati's Riverfront Stadium, McSherry backs away from home plate, waves to the other umpires, takes a few labored steps away from the field and collapses. Efforts to revive him fail and 53 minutes later, he is pronounced dead at a Cincinnati hospital. At the request of players on both teams, the game is postponed until tomorrow. "There are things way more important than baseball," Expos outfielder Rondell White says. Reds owner Marge Schott disagrees with the decision to postpone. “Why are they calling it?" she says. "Whose decision is it? Why can't they play with two umpires? I feel terrible. This is tragic for him and his family, but you don't do this to the fans. It's not fair to those who came from so far away. He's a baseball man. Wouldn't he want us to play?" McSherry died at age 51 of a heart attack. The death of the respected veteran arbitrator, prompts Major League Baseball to compel its umpires to be more physically fit."
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Why was last night different? Because he essentially died on the field. His teammates saw them doing CPR and administering the defib. Shazier was conscious and clearly alive. There's a difference in emotional impact, and football is an emotional game.
wrote on 3 Jan 2023, 19:22 last edited by@Mik said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
Why was last night different? Because he essentially died on the field.
Yes, that was the line that was crossed.
Death matters.
If he was just taken away unconscious in the ambulance, the game would have resumed. But since he was dead (essentially) and the players all saw it, I think it was OK to stop playing.
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wrote on 3 Jan 2023, 19:25 last edited by
There have been a few more cricketing deaths than you might expect - a few folk have died after being hit in the head, and there's a couple of heart attacks. One poor Australian international died from an artery dissection after being hit on the neck.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatalities_while_playing_cricket
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wrote on 3 Jan 2023, 19:32 last edited by
Yardbarker: "Damar Hamlin's charity toy drive receives over $3 million in donations
"A GoFundMe page for a toy drive that was set up by Buffalo Bills safety Damar Hamlin two years ago received more than $3 million in donations by Tuesday morning, more than 12 hours after he was taken to a Cincinnati hospital in critical condition."
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Yardbarker: "Damar Hamlin's charity toy drive receives over $3 million in donations
"A GoFundMe page for a toy drive that was set up by Buffalo Bills safety Damar Hamlin two years ago received more than $3 million in donations by Tuesday morning, more than 12 hours after he was taken to a Cincinnati hospital in critical condition."
wrote on 3 Jan 2023, 19:45 last edited by@Catseye3 said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
$3 million in donations
I just saw a cnn story that said $6 million now.
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@Catseye3 said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
$3 million in donations
I just saw a cnn story that said $6 million now.
wrote on 3 Jan 2023, 19:54 last edited by Catseye3 1 Mar 2023, 19:55Yeah, peoples' hearts can be so overflowing in times like these. It's like, if they can't help Damar directly, they reach out to help something that is important to him as the next best thing.
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wrote on 3 Jan 2023, 20:14 last edited by
League said no game this week…
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There have been a few more cricketing deaths than you might expect - a few folk have died after being hit in the head, and there's a couple of heart attacks. One poor Australian international died from an artery dissection after being hit on the neck.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatalities_while_playing_cricket
wrote on 3 Jan 2023, 23:59 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
There have been a few more cricketing deaths than you might expect - a few folk have died after being hit in the head, and there's a couple of heart attacks. One poor Australian international died from an artery dissection after being hit on the neck.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatalities_while_playing_cricket
I figure the number one cause of death for Cricket players is suicide.
For the fans, too.
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wrote on 4 Jan 2023, 13:24 last edited by
Tweeted from WIVB-TV Boston: "Just spoke with Damar Hamlin’s uncle. Damar was originally on 100% oxygen and is now down to 50%. Says the family is hanging in there. He thanked Bills fans, and Bengals fans and asked for continued prayers."
He goes on: "Keep in mind that this is just one report and the source is Hamlin's uncle and not a doctor or team official, but one would assume that Hamlin's family is extremely clued into what is happening so there's reason to be optimistic thanks to this Tweet.
I'm not a doctor and won't pretend to be one, but going from needing 100% oxygen support to 50% is logically a step in the right direction for Hamlin."
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wrote on 4 Jan 2023, 13:30 last edited by
Yes, going down to an FiO2 of 50% is a good thing. However, there are a couple of things to consider.
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Oxygen, at any high concentration (above 50% or so) is toxic and can cause lung injury. You really want to keep the FiO2 as low as possible while maintaining adequate blood SpO2.
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The fact that he still needs such high concentrations 36 hours later says that he sustained some kind of lung injury. Did his aspirate his cheeseburger while CPR was ongoing?
Just spitballing here, but those are a couple of thoughts.
Perhaps later today we'll know more about his cerebral function. However, if his pulmonary status is questionable, as I think it might be, they might want to wait until that gets stabilized before doing anything aggressive wrt his brain.
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wrote on 4 Jan 2023, 13:33 last edited by
@George-K Could you please explain “aspirate his cheeseburger” in non-technical language that I might understand?
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Yes, going down to an FiO2 of 50% is a good thing. However, there are a couple of things to consider.
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Oxygen, at any high concentration (above 50% or so) is toxic and can cause lung injury. You really want to keep the FiO2 as low as possible while maintaining adequate blood SpO2.
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The fact that he still needs such high concentrations 36 hours later says that he sustained some kind of lung injury. Did his aspirate his cheeseburger while CPR was ongoing?
Just spitballing here, but those are a couple of thoughts.
Perhaps later today we'll know more about his cerebral function. However, if his pulmonary status is questionable, as I think it might be, they might want to wait until that gets stabilized before doing anything aggressive wrt his brain.
wrote on 4 Jan 2023, 13:36 last edited by Catseye3 1 Apr 2023, 13:45@George-K said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
However, there are a couple of things to consider.
Last night the same uncle spoke with another press rep and mentioned they had turned Damar over (facedown) to help with blood in his lungs. He did not elaborate.
Yes, with my very limited knowledge, I would agree with your cautious outlook. 30 hours is of concern, especially combined with 4 mins of CPR. The best prognosis would seem to include a very long recovery.
I remember from my CPR training from long ago that CPR administered after trauma has a very low success rate, that its efficacy mostly is with medical.
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@George-K Could you please explain “aspirate his cheeseburger” in non-technical language that I might understand?
wrote on 4 Jan 2023, 13:42 last edited by@LuFins-Dad said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
@George-K Could you please explain “aspirate his cheeseburger” in non-technical language that I might understand?
I would doubt that he hadn't eaten anything before the game, and probably had a full stomach. It's not unusual to see whatever is in the stomach come back to "revisit" the mouth during CPR. Then, as chest compressions continue, and ventilation with a mask continues, that stuff can go down the trachea causing a pneumonitis.
This is the reason you want to get the patient intubated as quickly as possible - to protect the airway and lungs.
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@George-K said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
However, there are a couple of things to consider.
Last night the same uncle spoke with another press rep and mentioned they had turned Damar over (facedown) to help with blood in his lungs. He did not elaborate.
Yes, with my very limited knowledge, I would agree with your cautious outlook. 30 hours is of concern, especially combined with 4 mins of CPR. The best prognosis would seem to include a very long recovery.
I remember from my CPR training from long ago that CPR administered after trauma has a very low success rate, that its efficacy mostly is with medical.
wrote on 4 Jan 2023, 13:44 last edited by George K 1 Apr 2023, 13:45@Catseye3 said in Bills Bengals - ambulance on the field:
they had turned Damar over (facedown) to help with blood in his lungs
"Proning" patients has become a thing. It was just starting to be used when I retired, and was shown to be very effective in improving oxygenation. By taking advantage of gravity, and directing the blood to where the air in the lungs goes, you improve overall oxygenation.
It became VERY popular during the COVID year.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/articles/the-art-of-proning
Proning, which is when the patient is placed on their stomach, is a normal standard of care in patients with acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), and the research showed this to be an effective tool with patients with COVID-19.
"ARDS" is "Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome," or sometimes called "Acute Lung Injury." It means something bad, usually very bad, has happened to the lung tissue, and it's not able to transfer oxygen to the blood.
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wrote on 4 Jan 2023, 13:49 last edited by
Nothing has been positive from the gitgo. Not anticipating a good outcome.