Fusion breakthrough
-
I guess I could be a wet blanket and exercise my natural tendency to be negative and pessimistic. So I will! We get these sorts of physics breakthrough stories every couple of years, and nothing tangible ever comes of them. Granted this is a story of something already tangible, but to put it into practice rather than a lab environment is of unspecified tenability. Therefore I must in all good pessimism discard this as a nothing burger. NNTTM.
-
Fun to imagine the important forces on the left who unequivocally do not want magical clean energy, as it would remove the existential motivation for most of their policies. They'd be left with social justice as a motivator for their brand of totalitarianism.
Education is extremely important.
-
Somewhere I read that, although this is probably a significant event, the actual energy required to produce this is higher than the output, if all external factors (cooling, powering magnets, etc) are considered.
But I'm no nuclear scientist, so...
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
-
Fun to imagine the important forces on the left who unequivocally do not want magical clean energy, as it would remove the existential motivation for most of their policies. They'd be left with social justice as a motivator for their brand of totalitarianism.
@Horace said in Fusion breakthrough:
Fun to imagine the important forces on the left who unequivocally do not want magical clean energy, as it would remove the existential motivation for most of their policies. They'd be left with social justice as a motivator for their brand of totalitarianism.
This happened on Biden's watch, so he will go down in history as the man who made fusion possible.
A triumph of modern liberalism.
I was only joking
-
Somewhere I read that, although this is probably a significant event, the actual energy required to produce this is higher than the output, if all external factors (cooling, powering magnets, etc) are considered.
But I'm no nuclear scientist, so...
@George-K said in Fusion breakthrough:
Somewhere I read that, although this is probably a significant event, the actual energy required to produce this is higher than the output, if all external factors (cooling, powering magnets, etc) are considered.
But I'm no nuclear scientist, so...
At one point, airplanes were a dead end. Too much energy, too much fuel, it required massive infrastructure in the terms of runways, and it was just impractical. Everyone could see that Dirigibles were the way forward for air travel…
-
Fun fact - fusion reactions are only net energy positive up until Iron.
After that it takes net energy in to make elements. So every elements heavier than Iron in the universe has been made through exotic processes in extreme situations (like when a supernova explodes) - not regular fusion in stars.
-
@Horace said in Fusion breakthrough:
Fun to imagine the important forces on the left who unequivocally do not want magical clean energy, as it would remove the existential motivation for most of their policies. They'd be left with social justice as a motivator for their brand of totalitarianism.
This happened on Biden's watch, so he will go down in history as the man who made fusion possible.
A triumph of modern liberalism.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Fusion breakthrough:
@Horace said in Fusion breakthrough:
Fun to imagine the important forces on the left who unequivocally do not want magical clean energy, as it would remove the existential motivation for most of their policies. They'd be left with social justice as a motivator for their brand of totalitarianism.
This happened on Biden's watch, so he will go down in history as the man who made fusion possible.
A triumph of modern liberalism.
Truth be known it happened on Trump’s watch under the sage advice of his science and technology advisor, Marjorie Taylor Greene. Besides that, we are told, he was re-elected to a second term and is still the POTUS.
Elbows up!
-
@Doctor-Phibes said in Fusion breakthrough:
@Horace said in Fusion breakthrough:
Fun to imagine the important forces on the left who unequivocally do not want magical clean energy, as it would remove the existential motivation for most of their policies. They'd be left with social justice as a motivator for their brand of totalitarianism.
This happened on Biden's watch, so he will go down in history as the man who made fusion possible.
A triumph of modern liberalism.
Truth be known it happened on Trump’s watch under the sage advice of his science and technology advisor, Marjorie Taylor Greene. Besides that, we are told, he was re-elected to a second term and is still the POTUS.
@Renauda said in Fusion breakthrough:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Fusion breakthrough:
@Horace said in Fusion breakthrough:
Fun to imagine the important forces on the left who unequivocally do not want magical clean energy, as it would remove the existential motivation for most of their policies. They'd be left with social justice as a motivator for their brand of totalitarianism.
This happened on Biden's watch, so he will go down in history as the man who made fusion possible.
A triumph of modern liberalism.
Truth be known it happened on Trump’s watch under the sage advice of his science and technology advisor, Marjorie Taylor Greene. Besides that, we are told, he was re-elected to a second term and is still the POTUS.
I read they used Jewish space lasers to pull it off.
-
@Renauda said in Fusion breakthrough:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Fusion breakthrough:
@Horace said in Fusion breakthrough:
Fun to imagine the important forces on the left who unequivocally do not want magical clean energy, as it would remove the existential motivation for most of their policies. They'd be left with social justice as a motivator for their brand of totalitarianism.
This happened on Biden's watch, so he will go down in history as the man who made fusion possible.
A triumph of modern liberalism.
Truth be known it happened on Trump’s watch under the sage advice of his science and technology advisor, Marjorie Taylor Greene. Besides that, we are told, he was re-elected to a second term and is still the POTUS.
I read they used Jewish space lasers to pull it off.
-
So the power of the sun, power that can destroy the universe, will now be in the hands of ordinary men.
Swell.
How long before the atmosphere catches fire?
@Copper said in Fusion breakthrough:
So the power of the sun, power that can destroy the universe, will now be in the hands of ordinary men.
Swell.
How long before the atmosphere catches fire?
Ordinary men have had that power since the early 1950s. It’s called a thermonuclear weapon, commonly known as a hydrogen bomb. Been around 70 years now and the atmosphere has yet to catch fire.
-
@Copper said in Fusion breakthrough:
So the power of the sun, power that can destroy the universe, will now be in the hands of ordinary men.
Swell.
How long before the atmosphere catches fire?
Ordinary men have had that power since the early 1950s. It’s called a thermonuclear weapon, commonly known as a hydrogen bomb. Been around 70 years now and the atmosphere has yet to catch fire.
@Renauda said in Fusion breakthrough:
Ordinary men have had that power since the early 1950s.
OK, I guess ordinary men with super human cognitive ability, like maybe the president, already have it.
I'm talking about guys like Marty McFly and those of his ilk. Fusion power could set them free or blow us all up, or both.
-
@Renauda said in Fusion breakthrough:
Ordinary men have had that power since the early 1950s.
OK, I guess ordinary men with super human cognitive ability, like maybe the president, already have it.
I'm talking about guys like Marty McFly and those of his ilk. Fusion power could set them free or blow us all up, or both.
@Copper said in Fusion breakthrough:
@Renauda said in Fusion breakthrough:
Ordinary men have had that power since the early 1950s.
OK, I guess ordinary men with super human cognitive ability, like maybe the president, already have it.
I'm talking about guys like Marty McFly and those of his ilk. Fusion power could set them free or blow us all up, or both.
If we are going to talk about super human cognitive ability and fictitious characters, you ought to be more concerned about Khan Noonien Singh and his ilk than Marty McFly.
-
Link to video
“About two mega joules in, about three mega joules out.”
-
Link to video
“About two mega joules in, about three mega joules out.”
-
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/nuclear-fusion-breakthrough-energy
But this latest fusion burst still didn’t produce enough energy to run the laser power supplies and other systems of the NIF experiment. It took about 300 million joules of energy from the electrical grid to get a hundredth of the energy back in fusion.
“The net energy gain is with respect to the energy in the light that was shined on the target, not with respect to the energy that went into making that light,” says University of Rochester physicist Riccardo Betti, who was also not involved with the research. “Now it’s up to the scientists and engineers to see if we can turn these physics principles into useful energy.”
Despite that, it’s a potential turning point in the technology comparable to the invention of the transistor or the Wright brothers’ first flight, says Collins. “We now have a laboratory system that we can use as a compass for how to make progress very rapidly,” he says.
IOW: I now have $3 in my right pocket, and I used to have only $2. Of course, it cost me $300 to move that $1 over. Or, "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."
I'm not saying this isn't a big deal - I don't pretend to know enough about it to say that. I AM saying that perhaps the hype is a bit premature.
Another contrarian view:
The difference, he says, is in how scientists define breakeven. Today, the NIF researchers said they got as much energy out as their laser fired at the experiment—a massive, long-awaited achievement. But the problem is that the energy in those lasers represents a tiny fraction of the total power involved in firing up the lasers. By that measure, NIF is getting way less than it’s putting in. “That type of breakeven is way, way, way, way down the road,” Cappelli says. “That’s decades down the road. Maybe even a half-century down the road.”
The trouble is inefficient lasers. Generating fusion energy using NIF’s method involves shooting dozens of beams into a gold cylinder called a hohlraum, heating it up to more than 3 million degrees Celsius. The lasers don’t target the fuel directly. Instead, their aim is to generate “a soup of X-rays,” says Carolyn Kuranz, a fusion researcher at the University of Michigan. These bombard the tiny fuel pellet consisting of the hydrogen isotopes deuterium and tritium, and crush it.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
-
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/nuclear-fusion-breakthrough-energy
But this latest fusion burst still didn’t produce enough energy to run the laser power supplies and other systems of the NIF experiment. It took about 300 million joules of energy from the electrical grid to get a hundredth of the energy back in fusion.
“The net energy gain is with respect to the energy in the light that was shined on the target, not with respect to the energy that went into making that light,” says University of Rochester physicist Riccardo Betti, who was also not involved with the research. “Now it’s up to the scientists and engineers to see if we can turn these physics principles into useful energy.”
Despite that, it’s a potential turning point in the technology comparable to the invention of the transistor or the Wright brothers’ first flight, says Collins. “We now have a laboratory system that we can use as a compass for how to make progress very rapidly,” he says.
IOW: I now have $3 in my right pocket, and I used to have only $2. Of course, it cost me $300 to move that $1 over. Or, "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."
I'm not saying this isn't a big deal - I don't pretend to know enough about it to say that. I AM saying that perhaps the hype is a bit premature.
Another contrarian view:
The difference, he says, is in how scientists define breakeven. Today, the NIF researchers said they got as much energy out as their laser fired at the experiment—a massive, long-awaited achievement. But the problem is that the energy in those lasers represents a tiny fraction of the total power involved in firing up the lasers. By that measure, NIF is getting way less than it’s putting in. “That type of breakeven is way, way, way, way down the road,” Cappelli says. “That’s decades down the road. Maybe even a half-century down the road.”
The trouble is inefficient lasers. Generating fusion energy using NIF’s method involves shooting dozens of beams into a gold cylinder called a hohlraum, heating it up to more than 3 million degrees Celsius. The lasers don’t target the fuel directly. Instead, their aim is to generate “a soup of X-rays,” says Carolyn Kuranz, a fusion researcher at the University of Michigan. These bombard the tiny fuel pellet consisting of the hydrogen isotopes deuterium and tritium, and crush it.
@George-K said in Fusion breakthrough:
I'm not saying this isn't a big deal - I don't pretend to know enough about it to say that. I AM saying that perhaps the hype is a bit premature.
Yeah, it seems like we've had this announcement a couple of times already.
-
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/nuclear-fusion-breakthrough-energy
But this latest fusion burst still didn’t produce enough energy to run the laser power supplies and other systems of the NIF experiment. It took about 300 million joules of energy from the electrical grid to get a hundredth of the energy back in fusion.
“The net energy gain is with respect to the energy in the light that was shined on the target, not with respect to the energy that went into making that light,” says University of Rochester physicist Riccardo Betti, who was also not involved with the research. “Now it’s up to the scientists and engineers to see if we can turn these physics principles into useful energy.”
Despite that, it’s a potential turning point in the technology comparable to the invention of the transistor or the Wright brothers’ first flight, says Collins. “We now have a laboratory system that we can use as a compass for how to make progress very rapidly,” he says.
IOW: I now have $3 in my right pocket, and I used to have only $2. Of course, it cost me $300 to move that $1 over. Or, "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."
I'm not saying this isn't a big deal - I don't pretend to know enough about it to say that. I AM saying that perhaps the hype is a bit premature.
Another contrarian view:
The difference, he says, is in how scientists define breakeven. Today, the NIF researchers said they got as much energy out as their laser fired at the experiment—a massive, long-awaited achievement. But the problem is that the energy in those lasers represents a tiny fraction of the total power involved in firing up the lasers. By that measure, NIF is getting way less than it’s putting in. “That type of breakeven is way, way, way, way down the road,” Cappelli says. “That’s decades down the road. Maybe even a half-century down the road.”
The trouble is inefficient lasers. Generating fusion energy using NIF’s method involves shooting dozens of beams into a gold cylinder called a hohlraum, heating it up to more than 3 million degrees Celsius. The lasers don’t target the fuel directly. Instead, their aim is to generate “a soup of X-rays,” says Carolyn Kuranz, a fusion researcher at the University of Michigan. These bombard the tiny fuel pellet consisting of the hydrogen isotopes deuterium and tritium, and crush it.
@George-K said in Fusion breakthrough:
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/nuclear-fusion-breakthrough-energy
But this latest fusion burst still didn’t produce enough energy to run the laser power supplies and other systems of the NIF experiment. It took about 300 million joules of energy from the electrical grid to get a hundredth of the energy back in fusion.
“The net energy gain is with respect to the energy in the light that was shined on the target, not with respect to the energy that went into making that light,” says University of Rochester physicist Riccardo Betti, who was also not involved with the research. “Now it’s up to the scientists and engineers to see if we can turn these physics principles into useful energy.”
Despite that, it’s a potential turning point in the technology comparable to the invention of the transistor or the Wright brothers’ first flight, says Collins. “We now have a laboratory system that we can use as a compass for how to make progress very rapidly,” he says.
IOW: I now have $3 in my right pocket, and I used to have only $2. Of course, it cost me $300 to move that $1 over. Or, "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."
I'm not saying this isn't a big deal - I don't pretend to know enough about it to say that. I AM saying that perhaps the hype is a bit premature.
Another contrarian view:
The difference, he says, is in how scientists define breakeven. Today, the NIF researchers said they got as much energy out as their laser fired at the experiment—a massive, long-awaited achievement. But the problem is that the energy in those lasers represents a tiny fraction of the total power involved in firing up the lasers. By that measure, NIF is getting way less than it’s putting in. “That type of breakeven is way, way, way, way down the road,” Cappelli says. “That’s decades down the road. Maybe even a half-century down the road.”
The trouble is inefficient lasers. Generating fusion energy using NIF’s method involves shooting dozens of beams into a gold cylinder called a hohlraum, heating it up to more than 3 million degrees Celsius. The lasers don’t target the fuel directly. Instead, their aim is to generate “a soup of X-rays,” says Carolyn Kuranz, a fusion researcher at the University of Michigan. These bombard the tiny fuel pellet consisting of the hydrogen isotopes deuterium and tritium, and crush it.
Also Horace from TNCR was notably pessimistic about the development.
