Meanwhile, in Atlanta...
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@Loki said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
@Horace said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
@Loki said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
@89th said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
A man fighting cops, stealing their taser, running away and turning and pointing the taser at the cops...gee, what do you think would happen if YOU did that, black or white or any color?
Did you watch the video George posted?
Why do you ask? Was 89th's description inaccurate to your viewing of the video?
Seeing the video provides context to the individual who died. He’s a typical DUI trying to bargain in his way out, low tension, and makes a fateful decision to try and run and even worse to shoot the taser to aid in his escape. The killing him in return is uncomfortable to watch, not sure what I may have done as a cop with my adrenaline pump doing it’s thing.
First he made a fateful decision to struggle and go for the cop’s weapon.
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@jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
@Loki said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
@Horace said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
@Loki said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
@89th said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
A man fighting cops, stealing their taser, running away and turning and pointing the taser at the cops...gee, what do you think would happen if YOU did that, black or white or any color?
Did you watch the video George posted?
Why do you ask? Was 89th's description inaccurate to your viewing of the video?
Seeing the video provides context to the individual who died. He’s a typical DUI trying to bargain in his way out, low tension, and makes a fateful decision to try and run and even worse to shoot the taser to aid in his escape. The killing him in return is uncomfortable to watch, not sure what I may have done as a cop with my adrenaline pump doing it’s thing.
First he made a fateful decision to struggle and go for the cop’s weapon.
for values of "struggle" equal to "punch in the face".
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@Jolly said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
Death by stupidity. The guy would be alive this morning, had he acted as he should have.
The anticipation of martyrdom is a factor here as well. Martyrdom has been deeply motivating to humans forever. We're all going to die anyway, right?
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Maybe more can be learned elsewhere and I'm not finding it, but what seems to be known is that Brooks was asleep (passed out) in the drive-through, two cops came and gave him a sobriety test, which he failed. So at that point at least, he was in police custody. Then a drunk man appropriates a taser from one of the cops and takes off running, then turns and threatens the chasing cop with the taser, and the cop shoots him.
Doesn't it seem like there are parts of this story that don't quite hang together?
I'm not trying to build a case here. If what we know is what happened, then so be it. It just occurs to me that from what we know, either Brooks was an unusually alert drunk or the cops were half asleep.
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@Catseye3 said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
Maybe more can be learned elsewhere and I'm not finding it, but what seems to be known is that Brooks was asleep (passed out) in the drive-through, two cops came and gave him a sobriety test, which he failed. So at that point at least, he was in police custody. Then a drunk man appropriates a taser from one of the cops and takes off running, then turns and threatens the chasing cop with the taser, and the cop shoots him.
Doesn't it seem like there are parts of this story that don't quite hang together?
I'm not trying to build a case here. If what we know is what happened, then so be it. It just occurs to me that from what we know, either Brooks was an unusually alert drunk or the cops were half asleep.
I’ve seen that level of drunkness before. Enough to appear like reasoning is taking place, and to some extent true, but also some horrible decision making. Was the cops decision to shoot impulsive, I really don’t know. To say if the guy was white would he have been shot, I think whoever makes that judgement is making stuff up.
Right now how the police chief loses their job over this is way beyond me.
I wouldn’t put this up as evidence of racism nor best practice for police.
One thing I do believe is if police start quitting in droves there will be many excess black deaths.
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@George-K said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
@jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
They torched the Wendy’s.
Apparently because someone at Wendy's called the cops about Brooks.
Now it makes sense, right?
no doubt one of of those privileged white people who work at Wendy's.
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@Horace said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
@George-K said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
@jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
They torched the Wendy’s.
Apparently because someone at Wendy's called the cops about Brooks.
Now it makes sense, right?
no doubt one of of those privileged white people who work at Wendy's.
No more Wendy’s or likely other fast food restaurant there. Hope they enjoy the permanent consequence. Spite feels good in the short run, but you have to have the foresight to see the long term. No doubt it will be racism for a corporation not to replace it.
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@Horace said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
@George-K said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
@jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
They torched the Wendy’s.
Apparently because someone at Wendy's called the cops about Brooks.
Now it makes sense, right?
no doubt one of of those privileged white people who work at Wendy's.
I have personally never had any bad run-ins with the police. And due to the people I know in my life, I don't know of any bad personal stories about police confrontations that have come from direct acquaintances. I even know some police officers personally. So I have a much stronger emotional reaction to stories like these, because the narrative being offered doesn't fit my lifetime of personal experience. And that's a hell of a lot more important than allegedly legitimate stories that come from a different set of life experiences than my own.
There's absolutely no underlying problem with policing in America, and every story of police brutality is just a rare exception that's blown way out of proportion. The REAL problem is every story that (1) makes the national news and (2) doesn't fit my own mental map of reality. I hate that stuff. The riots and the bullshit stories of police brutality are the things we as a country need to focus on because I personally empathize with that more.
Further, the protesters and the rioters are all the same people and they're all bad because they aren't my group. Nevermind that independent review boards and police unions have gotten really bad officers off the hook countless times, admitting that might make it sound like I'm conceding that the bad people know better than I do. And the fact that officers are overworked and overwhelmed doesn't make me as angry as people burning buildings down, so I'm going to focus on what's the most emotionally accessible to me.
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Speaking of police review boards . . . things may have changed on this, but I always thought that cops had to go through internal review and disciplinary hearings and what-all before they were either fired or exonerated. But this cop was fired the very next day, no review, no nothing?
And his partner is put on administrative duty? For what? And by the way, where was he during all this?
And the police chief quits the day after that?
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
@Horace said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
@George-K said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
@jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
They torched the Wendy’s.
Apparently because someone at Wendy's called the cops about Brooks.
Now it makes sense, right?
no doubt one of of those privileged white people who work at Wendy's.
I have personally never had any bad run-ins with the police. And due to the people I know in my life, I don't know of any bad personal stories about police confrontations that have come from direct acquaintances. I even know some police officers personally. So I have a much stronger emotional reaction to stories like these, because the narrative being offered doesn't fit my lifetime of personal experience. And that's a hell of a lot more important than allegedly legitimate stories that come from a different set of life experiences than my own.
There's absolutely no underlying problem with policing in America, and every story of police brutality is just a rare exception that's blown way out of proportion. The REAL problem is every story that (1) makes the national news and (2) doesn't fit my own mental map of reality. I hate that stuff. The riots and the bullshit stories of police brutality are the things we as a country need to focus on because I personally empathize with that more.
Further, the protesters and the rioters are all the same people and they're all bad because they aren't my group. Nevermind that independent review boards and police unions have gotten really bad officers off the hook countless times, admitting that might make it sound like I'm conceding that the bad people know better than I do. And the fact that officers are overworked and overwhelmed doesn't make me as angry as people burning buildings down, so I'm going to focus on what's the most emotionally accessible to me.
You are on safer ground and perhaps on to something when you say police brutality in general. Normally you would be on very thin ice if you said police targeting blacks except that the media will never ever look at the real data. Do yourself a favor and take a sincere look at what the data says.
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@Horace said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
Down with bad cops, I am behind you on that Aqua. By all means let's do something about them. Well, not by "all" means. Let's stop short of disbanding them or making it nearly impossible for them to do their jobs.
Sometimes it's not bad cops, just ones who are past a breaking point, or have a lack of training, or something else that causes an error in judgment.
My basic point is that to Community A in America, the real issue is racism and police brutality, because they live in communities in which poverty is rampant and police relations suck. And, when they try to get the rest of America to understand this, a lot of it falls on deaf ears because Community B has absolutely no experience or understanding about this. Rioting and cops getting assaulted or killed makes no difference.
For Community B, it's flipped. All they see are the riots and the false stories about police brutality and racism. The real stories of police screwing up and the problems that exist in areas with income inequality make very little if any emotional hit.
Both have an incredibly biased view of reality because that's been a feature of human tribes since forever. You see what you aim at and you miss everything else.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
@Horace said in Meanwhile, in Atlanta...:
Down with bad cops, I am behind you on that Aqua. By all means let's do something about them. Well, not by "all" means. Let's stop short of disbanding them or making it nearly impossible for them to do their jobs.
Sometimes it's not bad cops, just ones who are past a breaking point, or have a lack of training, or something else that causes an error in judgment.
My basic point is that to Community A in America, the real issue is racism and police brutality, because they live in communities in which poverty is rampant and police relations suck. And, when they try to get the rest of America to understand this, a lot of it falls on deaf ears because Community B has absolutely no experience or understanding about this. Rioting and cops getting assaulted or killed makes no difference.
For Community B, it's flipped. All they see are the riots and the false stories about police brutality and racism. The real stories of police screwing up and the problems that exist in areas with income inequality make very little if any emotional hit.
Both have an incredibly biased view of reality because that's been a feature of human tribes since forever. You see what you aim at and you miss everything else.
To the extent that we try to minimize those things while realizing that we're working with hardware which is not designed to minimize those things, I agree. The issue, as I've zeroed in on it in my time, comes down to righteousness and its ability to diminish our willingness to care anymore whether we're being tribal. Righteous tribes are good tribes to belong to. The fact that they carry with them all the irrational tribal thought is just an acceptable price one pays to be on the right side of history.
