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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Restricted access road

Restricted access road

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  • George KG Offline
    George KG Offline
    George K
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Interesting story.

    tl;dr version: Guy buys property near national park 40 years ago. The previous owner (1926) had a contract with the government to allow an easement on the property for an access road to be used only by park personnel. Now the government is permitting visitors to use the road to access the park. He's suing.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/3749231-a-montana-mountain-man-goes-to-court-to-protect-his-property-rights/amp/

    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • 89th8 Offline
      89th8 Offline
      89th
      wrote on last edited by 89th
      #2

      https://www.google.com/maps/@45.9207532,-114.109506,3a,75y,316.78h,81.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saN485VFb8B1T8mKFcUHiZA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

      Street view of the road in question, not that it helps.

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      • 89th8 Offline
        89th8 Offline
        89th
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Wish him luck. Seems clear cut based on the article. And annoying he even has to sue to get the government to follow its word.

        George KG 1 Reply Last reply
        • MikM Offline
          MikM Offline
          Mik
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Interesting. One thing they did not provide to the reader is the text of the easement. It's public record and should have been in the article. This muckraking is what passes for journalism these days. You're not supposed to know the facts, just get the feels.

          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

          LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
          • 89th8 89th

            Wish him luck. Seems clear cut based on the article. And annoying he even has to sue to get the government to follow its word.

            George KG Offline
            George KG Offline
            George K
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            @89th gotta wonder how much it'll cost him to litigate this.

            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • JollyJ Offline
              JollyJ Offline
              Jolly
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Hopefully, nothing.

              “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

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              • CopperC Offline
                CopperC Offline
                Copper
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                A well placed toll booth should help cover the cost.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • taiwan_girlT Offline
                  taiwan_girlT Offline
                  taiwan_girl
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Another land dispute situation:

                  "In October of 2021, four hunters were cited for criminal trespass in Wyoming. They had not entered a private building, nor had they touched private land.

                  What they had done was place an A-frame ladder across an intersection of property boundaries, the location where four parcels of land meet at a point. They climbed up one side of the ladder from public land, and down the other side of the ladder, stepping kitty-corner onto a different parcel of public land. But in doing so, their bodies also crossed through the airspace of the other two parcels meeting at that point, which were private. Their trial, set for mid-April, will decide if they trespassed when they passed through that private airspace."

                  Quite a dilemma
                  https://www.onxmaps.com/onx-access-initiatives/corner-crossing-report

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • MikM Mik

                    Interesting. One thing they did not provide to the reader is the text of the easement. It's public record and should have been in the article. This muckraking is what passes for journalism these days. You're not supposed to know the facts, just get the feels.

                    LuFins DadL Offline
                    LuFins DadL Offline
                    LuFins Dad
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    @Mik said in Restricted access road:

                    Interesting. One thing they did not provide to the reader is the text of the easement. It's public record and should have been in the article. This muckraking is what passes for journalism these days. You're not supposed to know the facts, just get the feels.

                    Mik, this was an opinion piece written by one of the lawyers working the case. It was never meant to be journalism, but an op-ed.

                    The Brad

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • George KG Offline
                      George KG Offline
                      George K
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      Seems like it's not about the easement, per se, but about when suits were filed.

                      https://lawandcrime.com/supreme-court/in-montana-landowners-case-justices-ponder-what-happens-when-scotus-rulings-throw-a-wrench-into-statutory-interpretation/

                      Wilkins and Stanton said that since the sign was posted, there’s been all manner of problems on the road. They claim to “have had to deal with trespassers on their private property, theft of their personal property, people shooting at their houses, people hunting both on and off the easement, and people travelling [sic] at dangerous speeds,” — and once, the shooting of Wilkins’ cat by a passing traveler.

                      Frequent use of the easement has also caused land erosion, which in turn resulted in sediment build-up on neighboring properties; those properties then suffered “washout,” which is a serious concern for future use of the land. Meanwhile, the claimants contend that the Forest Service has done less and less to maintain its easement, despite their many requests for assistance.

                      Wilkins and Stanton eventually sued, and the dispute before the justices Wednesday relates to the timing of that lawsuit. The lower court said, and the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit agreed, that the plaintiffs’ lawsuit was too late as it had been filed after the 12-year statute of limitations had run.

                      The relevant statute is the federal Quiet Title Act, which allows litigants 12 years within which to file their claims. The legal question before the justices is whether that statute of limitations is a “jurisdictional” or a “claims-processing” rule. If the justices say that it is a jurisdictional regulation, then the rule goes to the power of the court to hear the case and the landowners will lose. If, on the other hand, the rule is simply considered a procedural claims-processing rule, Wilkins and Stanton may still have a chance to move ahead with their lawsuit, because the claimants’ lateness could be excused as an equitable remedy.

                      The appellants’ arguments rely in large part on a 2021 SCOTUS decision in Boechler v. Commissioner in which SCOTUS ruled against the Internal Revenue Service that a 30-day time limit in a tax case was not jurisdictional, and was therefore subject to equitable tolling. The dispute before the justices brings up an important question: should SCOTUS follow a modern trend of its own creation that require “jurisdictional” statutes to reflect their nature within their own wording, or should it stick to older precedents involving the Quiet Title Act in particular?

                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

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