The Generals
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Originally I had wanted to compile statements of senior military leaders on the #BLM / George Floyd protests, particularly on the clearing of Lafayette Square on 2020-06-01, but as usual, some one else on the Internet has already done so.
The folks at "Task and Purpose," a military and veteran-focused website, IMO has done a particularly good job at https://taskandpurpose.com/news/trump-generals-protests
Some of the heavy hitters:
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Former Marine Corps general James Mattis: Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society.
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Former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Adm. Mike Mullen: It sickened me yesterday to see security personnel—including members of the National Guard—forcibly and violently clear a path through Lafayette Square to accommodate the president's visit outside St. John's Church. I have to date been reticent to speak out on issues surrounding President Trump's leadership, but we are at an inflection point, and the events of the past few weeks have made it impossible to remain silent.
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Retired Navy Adm. James G. Stavridis: Our active duty military must remain above the fray of domestic politics, and the best way to do that is to keep that force focused on its rightful mission outside the United States. Our senior active duty military leaders must make that case forcefully and directly to national leadership, speaking truth to power in uncomfortable ways. They must do this at the risk of their career. I hope they will do so, and not allow the military to be dragged into the maelstrom that is ahead of us, and which will likely only accelerate between now and November. If they do not stand and deliver on this vital core value, I fear for the soul of our military and all of the attendant consequences. We cannot afford to have a future Lafayette Square end up looking like Tiananmen Square.
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Former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Martin E. Dempsey: America’s military, our sons and daughters, will place themselves at risk to protect their fellow citizens. Their job is unimaginably hard overseas; harder at home. Respect them, for they respect you. America is not a battleground. Our fellow citizens are not the enemy.
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Retired Navy Adm. William McRaven: You're not going to use, whether it is the military or the National Guard or law enforcement, to clear peaceful American citizens for the president of the United States to do a photo op. There is nothing morally right about that.
(There are many more, including those from active duty military leaders, at the Task and Purpose compilation.)
- Former Marine Corps general John F. Kelly has not release his own stand-alone statement put publicly stated that he agrees with James Mattis.
The Navy, Marines, and the Army are well represented there. The Air Force less so.
And then there is this more recent one from an active duty General:
- Army Gen. Mark Milley: As many of you saw the result of the photograph of me at Lafayette Square last week, that sparked a national debate about the role of the military in civil society. I should not have been there. My presence in that moment and in that environment created a perception of the military involved in domestic politics. As a commissioned uniformed officer, it was a mistake that I’ve learned from, and I sincerely hope we all can learn from it. (transcript)
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BTW, what were the political proclamations of Pershing, Mitchell, Bradley or Gavin?
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@Larry said in The Generals:
Did anyone elect any of these men to be in charge? No? Then they should shut the hell up
Then who should be allowed to speak? Only those who agree with President Trump?
Should teh Democrats only allow those to speak who agree with them?
Again, neither party is good in this area.
To the statements by the military and ex- military. At some point, you have to give some weight to what they are saying, based on their service in the military, their service in the government, and their (those who did serve) service in President Trumps administration. If it was just one person, it can be dismissed. But when multiple respected people are saying it ...........
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TG, you're making way too much sense to post here.
Proud supporter of Plan 2525. Everything you think, do and say will be in the pill you took today.
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If 'multiple respected people saying something' is the north star for truth, I would have to admit to lots of stuff that I do not consider true. And that's even allowing for the baked in and unquestioned assumption that the multiple people are representative of a majority. Which is in fact questionable.
But all that said, I am sure mistakes were made in the handling of that crowd dispersal, and down with that sort of thing.
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@taiwan_girl said in The Generals:
@Larry said in The Generals:
Did anyone elect any of these men to be in charge? No? Then they should shut the hell up
Then who should be allowed to speak? Only those who agree with President Trump?
Should teh Democrats only allow those to speak who agree with them?
Again, neither party is good in this area.
To the statements by the military and ex- military. At some point, you have to give some weight to what they are saying, based on their service in the military, their service in the government, and their (those who did serve) service in President Trumps administration. If it was just one person, it can be dismissed. But when multiple respected people are saying it ...........
This is why I said Ax needs his ass kicked for using their statements as a political weapon. All of these men were already doing that. Of the 6 he listed, 3 of them weren't even complaining about Trump, they were expressing their disapproval of using the military to address the riots. That's a legitimate point, but they were being used by Ax, and whoever wrote that piece, to beef up their agenda driven hit piece. Three of them were responding to a fake news claim, not facts, motivated either by their own political bias, or by the fact that they were one of the yes men Obama put in.
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@taiwan_girl said in The Generals:
@Larry said in The Generals:
Did anyone elect any of these men to be in charge? No? Then they should shut the hell up
Then who should be allowed to speak? Only those who agree with President Trump?
Should teh Democrats only allow those to speak who agree with them?
Again, neither party is good in this area.
To the statements by the military and ex- military. At some point, you have to give some weight to what they are saying, based on their service in the military, their service in the government, and their (those who did serve) service in President Trumps administration. If it was just one person, it can be dismissed. But when multiple respected people are saying it ...........
Actually...Because all of these guys are generals, they are subject to recall and the Code of Military Justice. It would be a public relations nightmare, but they could be recalled and prosecuted under the Code for defamation of the Commander in Chief. Punishment could include a reduction in rank, and as such, a significant cut in their pensions.
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@Jolly Interesting information. Thanks!!
Here is an article I found that discusses it.
Article 88 in Uniform Code of Military Justice
from my understanding, a person has to be currently part of the military for it to apply.
From the article:
The main reason for this regulation is to keep military members who have access to major weapons of war to ever get involved in politics. Once they are retired or resigned their commission and a civilian citizen, they may partake in such political arguments in both written or spoken word. -
I didn't delve deep in this story . . . What I see is a number of high-ranking officers publicly expressing dismay at the threat of an American head of state contemplating siccing military troops on American citizens.
As well they might.
Possibly this was their way of making clear that they would not obey such an order.
As well they might.
You think these men and many others in the military haven't burned up the wires over this? You think Trump hasn't gotten a faceful of shit over it?
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@taiwan_girl said in The Generals:
@Jolly Interesting information. Thanks!!
Here is an article I found that discusses it.
Article 88 in Uniform Code of Military Justice
from my understanding, a person has to be currently part of the military for it to apply.
From the article:
The main reason for this regulation is to keep military members who have access to major weapons of war to ever get involved in politics. Once they are retired or resigned their commission and a civilian citizen, they may partake in such political arguments in both written or spoken word.Generals are subject to recall at any time.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@Catseye3 said in The Generals:
I didn't delve deep in this story . . . What I see is a number of high-ranking officers publicly expressing dismay at the threat of an American head of state contemplating siccing military troops on American citizens.
As well they might.
Possibly this was their way of making clear that they would not obey such an order.
As well they might.
You think these men and many others in the military haven't burned up the wires over this? You think Trump hasn't gotten a faceful of shit over it?
You think he actually cares?
LBJ used both the 82nd and 101st in 1967 and 1968. Bush 41 also used active duty military. There were no legal problems.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
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@Catseye3 said in The Generals:
@Jolly said in The Generals:
LBJ used both the 82nd and 101st in 1967 and 1968. Bush 41 also used active duty military. There were no legal problems.
Different times, different conditions.
Same laws.
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@Catseye3 said in The Generals:
@Jolly said in The Generals:
LBJ used both the 82nd and 101st in 1967 and 1968. Bush 41 also used active duty military. There were no legal problems.
Different times, different conditions.
Bull shit.
It has been well documented that Obama got rid of all the genuine military leaders and replaced them with yes men. Now these yes men are complaining because Trump has suggested doing what past presidents actually did back when we had real leaders in the military instead of these candy assed Obama yes men.
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@Jolly said in The Generals:
@taiwan_girl said in The Generals:
@Jolly Interesting information. Thanks!!
Here is an article I found that discusses it.
Article 88 in Uniform Code of Military Justice
from my understanding, a person has to be currently part of the military for it to apply.
From the article:
The main reason for this regulation is to keep military members who have access to major weapons of war to ever get involved in politics. Once they are retired or resigned their commission and a civilian citizen, they may partake in such political arguments in both written or spoken word.Generals are subject to recall at any time.
That is interesting. It would be an Interesting case if a former general runs for president.
The code says:
“Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”But, what is contemptuous words exactly?
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@taiwan_girl said in The Generals:
@Jolly said in The Generals:
@taiwan_girl said in The Generals:
@Jolly Interesting information. Thanks!!
Here is an article I found that discusses it.
Article 88 in Uniform Code of Military Justice
from my understanding, a person has to be currently part of the military for it to apply.
From the article:
The main reason for this regulation is to keep military members who have access to major weapons of war to ever get involved in politics. Once they are retired or resigned their commission and a civilian citizen, they may partake in such political arguments in both written or spoken word.Generals are subject to recall at any time.
That is interesting. It would be an Interesting case if a former general runs for president.
The code says:
“Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”But, what is contemptuous words exactly?
Anything disparaging, especially any type of public utterence.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@Jolly said in The Generals:
@taiwan_girl said in The Generals:
The code says:
“Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”But, what is contemptuous words exactly?
Anything disparaging, especially any type of public utterence.
Interestingly, if you look at the article, all of the 'contemptuous words' come from retired personnel, and not subject to court-martial. None of the active members of the military said anything contemptuous.
