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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. See, now, this just sucks.

See, now, this just sucks.

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  • Aqua LetiferA Offline
    Aqua LetiferA Offline
    Aqua Letifer
    wrote on last edited by Aqua Letifer
    #1

    This is, as far as anyone's aware, the oldest recorded story of Robin Hood.

    https://mariahmccune.weebly.com/uploads/1/9/2/8/19282013/robin_hood_and_the_monk.pdf

    A note on this, uh, "translation":

    As much as possible, I tried to do a word-for-word translation, but often this isn't possible or -- if it is -- it's not understandable or clear, so I made appropriate choices there. I also wanted to maintain the ABCB rhyme scheme, which sometimes forced me to take a few liberties, but not anything drastic. A few translation suggestions were taken from the editors of Robin Hood and Other Outlaw Tales. You should always refer back to the Middle English version for a true sense of the original language and music.

    Word-for-word translations are ridiculous. Gleemen and minstrels wrote their own versions of this, the words themselves are not and have never been sacred. The events alone are of importantance.

    Speaking of word-for-word translations, nobody knows what the fuck "Whitson" is anymore. And the monk not only violated Robin's sanctuary, but did so while he was attending mass. This makes him a huge asshole—a detail completely lost on a modern audience. At least give some half-assed attempt at a cultural reference to help a modern reader understand the story. There's no point in doing a translation if they have to look shit up regardless.

    And why the fuck maintain the rhyme scheme but not the metre? It's a ballad for shit's sake.

    This shit sucks.

    "Okay Aqua, if you feel that way, why don't you do a better job?"

    I'm at least giving it a go. This is everything before the damaged pages at line 120. I'm working on those, too, but they aren't done yet.


    In summer, when the woods were bright
    And leaves grew large and long,
    The merry forest welcomed in
    The birds who shared their song

    The deer were drawing to the dale
    And left the hillocks free
    And sheltered in beneath the shade
    Of vaulted emerald trees

    White Sunday, when the flowers bloomed
    So brilliantly in May—
    They rivaled dawn’s own gilded glow—
    Such was the scene that day.

    “A merry sight,” said Little John
    “By Christ Upon the Cross,
    To find a man as half-content
    You’d all be at a loss!”

    “Pluck up your heart, my master, please,”
    He ventured on to say,
    “No light is ever fairer than
    The morning light of May.”

    “Except I’m troubled,” Robin said,
    “I’m sorry that it shows.
    It’s time for Sunday Mass again;
    It’s there I ought to go.”

    “It’s been a fortnight since I’ve been—
    Much longer than I’d planned.
    I’ll try today—but led, I hope
    By Mary’s gentle hand.”

    Along came Much, the Miller’s son,
    Who took the two aside.
    “A dozen well-armed merry men
    Should then be by your side.
    That way, for those who wished you harm
    They’d risk their suicide.”

    “Just one, my friend,” said Robin Hood,
    “To keep us out of sight.
    So Little John shall hold my bow—
    Unless we find a fight.”

    “You’ll hold your own,” said Little John,
    “And me, I’ll carry mine.
    In fact, a dollar wager for the man
    Who shoots the truer line.”

    “A dollar? No,” said Robin back
    “Let’s have a little fun:
    For besting me in archery,
    I’ll give you three-to-one.”

    They wagered once, and wagered twice
    As both dared not to lose
    ‘Till Little John had won enough
    To buy new socks and shoes.

    Then silence grew between the two
    As Robin stormed ahead
    The other tried to claim his prize
    When Robin turned his head.

    He fiercely struck at Little John—
    “You cheated!” Robin roared
    And Little John responded quick
    By brandishing his sword.

    “Were you another’s master, Robin,
    I’d sorely make you pay.
    Return to town. Go where you will.
    You walk alone today.”

    So Robin walked to Nottingham,
    Uneasy and alone,
    And Little John, to Sherwood by
    The paths he’d always known.

    And later, once in Nottingham,
    A hooded man began
    To pray to Mary and to God
    To see him safe again.

    He stepped inside Saint Mary’s church
    And knelt before the Lord
    And all within saw Robin Hood
    Alone, save bow and sword.

    Across from him, a local monk
    Whose head sat full and round
    Identified the visitor
    And quickly spun around

    He bolted out the door and sought
    The sheriff as he fled—
    Disrupting Robin’s sanctuary,
    Betraying him instead.

    While searching all of Nottingham,
    He told the sheriff’s men:
    “Secure the gates and arm yourself—
    The Thief returns again!”

    And then he found the sheriff:
    “Rise up, and fix your ears!
    Surround the church with all your guards,
    For Robin Hood is here!

    I saw the felon there myself,
    Attending Sunday mass
    The failure’s yours and yours alone
    If he’s allowed to pass.

    I know the traitor, same as you—
    He sprang and robbed me blind!
    A hundred pounds he took from me—
    It’s ever on my mind.”

    The sheriff nodded, thanked the monk
    And smiled, quite content;
    Then mobilized his strongest men
    And to the church they went.

    They beat upon St. Mary’s doors
    With staves dispersed and drawn
    “Alas, alas,” said Robin Hood,
    “I so miss Little John!”

    He drew his longsword out at once
    And held it by his knee,
    Then charged against the sheriff’s men
    Their staves now swinging free

    Thrice through did Robin come at them
    And those who saw it say
    He wounded countless armored guards
    And twelve he killed that day.

    His sword, upon the sheriff’s head,
    Abruptly broke in two.
    “The smith that made you,” Robin said,
    “Deserves to be run through!

    I’m weaponless, and so I yield,
    Before more blood is spilled.
    (And if I ran, they barred the gates—
    They’d surely have me killed.)”

    Please love yourself.

    Catseye3C 2 Replies Last reply
    • MikM Offline
      MikM Offline
      Mik
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Certainly better. But I think it best to read it in its original language and learn it as you go.

      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

      Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
      • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

        This is, as far as anyone's aware, the oldest recorded story of Robin Hood.

        https://mariahmccune.weebly.com/uploads/1/9/2/8/19282013/robin_hood_and_the_monk.pdf

        A note on this, uh, "translation":

        As much as possible, I tried to do a word-for-word translation, but often this isn't possible or -- if it is -- it's not understandable or clear, so I made appropriate choices there. I also wanted to maintain the ABCB rhyme scheme, which sometimes forced me to take a few liberties, but not anything drastic. A few translation suggestions were taken from the editors of Robin Hood and Other Outlaw Tales. You should always refer back to the Middle English version for a true sense of the original language and music.

        Word-for-word translations are ridiculous. Gleemen and minstrels wrote their own versions of this, the words themselves are not and have never been sacred. The events alone are of importantance.

        Speaking of word-for-word translations, nobody knows what the fuck "Whitson" is anymore. And the monk not only violated Robin's sanctuary, but did so while he was attending mass. This makes him a huge asshole—a detail completely lost on a modern audience. At least give some half-assed attempt at a cultural reference to help a modern reader understand the story. There's no point in doing a translation if they have to look shit up regardless.

        And why the fuck maintain the rhyme scheme but not the metre? It's a ballad for shit's sake.

        This shit sucks.

        "Okay Aqua, if you feel that way, why don't you do a better job?"

        I'm at least giving it a go. This is everything before the damaged pages at line 120. I'm working on those, too, but they aren't done yet.


        In summer, when the woods were bright
        And leaves grew large and long,
        The merry forest welcomed in
        The birds who shared their song

        The deer were drawing to the dale
        And left the hillocks free
        And sheltered in beneath the shade
        Of vaulted emerald trees

        White Sunday, when the flowers bloomed
        So brilliantly in May—
        They rivaled dawn’s own gilded glow—
        Such was the scene that day.

        “A merry sight,” said Little John
        “By Christ Upon the Cross,
        To find a man as half-content
        You’d all be at a loss!”

        “Pluck up your heart, my master, please,”
        He ventured on to say,
        “No light is ever fairer than
        The morning light of May.”

        “Except I’m troubled,” Robin said,
        “I’m sorry that it shows.
        It’s time for Sunday Mass again;
        It’s there I ought to go.”

        “It’s been a fortnight since I’ve been—
        Much longer than I’d planned.
        I’ll try today—but led, I hope
        By Mary’s gentle hand.”

        Along came Much, the Miller’s son,
        Who took the two aside.
        “A dozen well-armed merry men
        Should then be by your side.
        That way, for those who wished you harm
        They’d risk their suicide.”

        “Just one, my friend,” said Robin Hood,
        “To keep us out of sight.
        So Little John shall hold my bow—
        Unless we find a fight.”

        “You’ll hold your own,” said Little John,
        “And me, I’ll carry mine.
        In fact, a dollar wager for the man
        Who shoots the truer line.”

        “A dollar? No,” said Robin back
        “Let’s have a little fun:
        For besting me in archery,
        I’ll give you three-to-one.”

        They wagered once, and wagered twice
        As both dared not to lose
        ‘Till Little John had won enough
        To buy new socks and shoes.

        Then silence grew between the two
        As Robin stormed ahead
        The other tried to claim his prize
        When Robin turned his head.

        He fiercely struck at Little John—
        “You cheated!” Robin roared
        And Little John responded quick
        By brandishing his sword.

        “Were you another’s master, Robin,
        I’d sorely make you pay.
        Return to town. Go where you will.
        You walk alone today.”

        So Robin walked to Nottingham,
        Uneasy and alone,
        And Little John, to Sherwood by
        The paths he’d always known.

        And later, once in Nottingham,
        A hooded man began
        To pray to Mary and to God
        To see him safe again.

        He stepped inside Saint Mary’s church
        And knelt before the Lord
        And all within saw Robin Hood
        Alone, save bow and sword.

        Across from him, a local monk
        Whose head sat full and round
        Identified the visitor
        And quickly spun around

        He bolted out the door and sought
        The sheriff as he fled—
        Disrupting Robin’s sanctuary,
        Betraying him instead.

        While searching all of Nottingham,
        He told the sheriff’s men:
        “Secure the gates and arm yourself—
        The Thief returns again!”

        And then he found the sheriff:
        “Rise up, and fix your ears!
        Surround the church with all your guards,
        For Robin Hood is here!

        I saw the felon there myself,
        Attending Sunday mass
        The failure’s yours and yours alone
        If he’s allowed to pass.

        I know the traitor, same as you—
        He sprang and robbed me blind!
        A hundred pounds he took from me—
        It’s ever on my mind.”

        The sheriff nodded, thanked the monk
        And smiled, quite content;
        Then mobilized his strongest men
        And to the church they went.

        They beat upon St. Mary’s doors
        With staves dispersed and drawn
        “Alas, alas,” said Robin Hood,
        “I so miss Little John!”

        He drew his longsword out at once
        And held it by his knee,
        Then charged against the sheriff’s men
        Their staves now swinging free

        Thrice through did Robin come at them
        And those who saw it say
        He wounded countless armored guards
        And twelve he killed that day.

        His sword, upon the sheriff’s head,
        Abruptly broke in two.
        “The smith that made you,” Robin said,
        “Deserves to be run through!

        I’m weaponless, and so I yield,
        Before more blood is spilled.
        (And if I ran, they barred the gates—
        They’d surely have me killed.)”

        Catseye3C Offline
        Catseye3C Offline
        Catseye3
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        @Aqua-Letifer said in See, now, this just sucks.:

        There's no point in doing a translation if they have to look shit up regardless.

        Why? What makes modernity so sacrosanct? The poets/minstrels of their time's work was as legitimate to them as ours is to ours.

        If I'm interested, I'll do the research. If I'm not interested enough to do the work, I'll just have to do without.

        Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

        Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
        • MikM Mik

          Certainly better. But I think it best to read it in its original language and learn it as you go.

          Aqua LetiferA Offline
          Aqua LetiferA Offline
          Aqua Letifer
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          @Mik said in See, now, this just sucks.:

          Certainly better. But I think it best to read it in its original language and learn it as you go.

          @Mik said in See, now, this just sucks.:

          Certainly better. But I think it best to read it in its original language and learn it as you go.

          Fully agree. The original is always going to be better in this case. Except no one's going to read it except for nerds.

          These stories are endlessly fascinating. A major problem: Robin Hood is champion of the poor, right? And so he's a folk story?

          No way. At least not until later.

          These stories were written down. Most peasants couldn't read or write, and sure as hell didn't have access to paper. The audience for these stories was noblemen just as much as it was peasants. They were cautionary tales.

          Please love yourself.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

            This is, as far as anyone's aware, the oldest recorded story of Robin Hood.

            https://mariahmccune.weebly.com/uploads/1/9/2/8/19282013/robin_hood_and_the_monk.pdf

            A note on this, uh, "translation":

            As much as possible, I tried to do a word-for-word translation, but often this isn't possible or -- if it is -- it's not understandable or clear, so I made appropriate choices there. I also wanted to maintain the ABCB rhyme scheme, which sometimes forced me to take a few liberties, but not anything drastic. A few translation suggestions were taken from the editors of Robin Hood and Other Outlaw Tales. You should always refer back to the Middle English version for a true sense of the original language and music.

            Word-for-word translations are ridiculous. Gleemen and minstrels wrote their own versions of this, the words themselves are not and have never been sacred. The events alone are of importantance.

            Speaking of word-for-word translations, nobody knows what the fuck "Whitson" is anymore. And the monk not only violated Robin's sanctuary, but did so while he was attending mass. This makes him a huge asshole—a detail completely lost on a modern audience. At least give some half-assed attempt at a cultural reference to help a modern reader understand the story. There's no point in doing a translation if they have to look shit up regardless.

            And why the fuck maintain the rhyme scheme but not the metre? It's a ballad for shit's sake.

            This shit sucks.

            "Okay Aqua, if you feel that way, why don't you do a better job?"

            I'm at least giving it a go. This is everything before the damaged pages at line 120. I'm working on those, too, but they aren't done yet.


            In summer, when the woods were bright
            And leaves grew large and long,
            The merry forest welcomed in
            The birds who shared their song

            The deer were drawing to the dale
            And left the hillocks free
            And sheltered in beneath the shade
            Of vaulted emerald trees

            White Sunday, when the flowers bloomed
            So brilliantly in May—
            They rivaled dawn’s own gilded glow—
            Such was the scene that day.

            “A merry sight,” said Little John
            “By Christ Upon the Cross,
            To find a man as half-content
            You’d all be at a loss!”

            “Pluck up your heart, my master, please,”
            He ventured on to say,
            “No light is ever fairer than
            The morning light of May.”

            “Except I’m troubled,” Robin said,
            “I’m sorry that it shows.
            It’s time for Sunday Mass again;
            It’s there I ought to go.”

            “It’s been a fortnight since I’ve been—
            Much longer than I’d planned.
            I’ll try today—but led, I hope
            By Mary’s gentle hand.”

            Along came Much, the Miller’s son,
            Who took the two aside.
            “A dozen well-armed merry men
            Should then be by your side.
            That way, for those who wished you harm
            They’d risk their suicide.”

            “Just one, my friend,” said Robin Hood,
            “To keep us out of sight.
            So Little John shall hold my bow—
            Unless we find a fight.”

            “You’ll hold your own,” said Little John,
            “And me, I’ll carry mine.
            In fact, a dollar wager for the man
            Who shoots the truer line.”

            “A dollar? No,” said Robin back
            “Let’s have a little fun:
            For besting me in archery,
            I’ll give you three-to-one.”

            They wagered once, and wagered twice
            As both dared not to lose
            ‘Till Little John had won enough
            To buy new socks and shoes.

            Then silence grew between the two
            As Robin stormed ahead
            The other tried to claim his prize
            When Robin turned his head.

            He fiercely struck at Little John—
            “You cheated!” Robin roared
            And Little John responded quick
            By brandishing his sword.

            “Were you another’s master, Robin,
            I’d sorely make you pay.
            Return to town. Go where you will.
            You walk alone today.”

            So Robin walked to Nottingham,
            Uneasy and alone,
            And Little John, to Sherwood by
            The paths he’d always known.

            And later, once in Nottingham,
            A hooded man began
            To pray to Mary and to God
            To see him safe again.

            He stepped inside Saint Mary’s church
            And knelt before the Lord
            And all within saw Robin Hood
            Alone, save bow and sword.

            Across from him, a local monk
            Whose head sat full and round
            Identified the visitor
            And quickly spun around

            He bolted out the door and sought
            The sheriff as he fled—
            Disrupting Robin’s sanctuary,
            Betraying him instead.

            While searching all of Nottingham,
            He told the sheriff’s men:
            “Secure the gates and arm yourself—
            The Thief returns again!”

            And then he found the sheriff:
            “Rise up, and fix your ears!
            Surround the church with all your guards,
            For Robin Hood is here!

            I saw the felon there myself,
            Attending Sunday mass
            The failure’s yours and yours alone
            If he’s allowed to pass.

            I know the traitor, same as you—
            He sprang and robbed me blind!
            A hundred pounds he took from me—
            It’s ever on my mind.”

            The sheriff nodded, thanked the monk
            And smiled, quite content;
            Then mobilized his strongest men
            And to the church they went.

            They beat upon St. Mary’s doors
            With staves dispersed and drawn
            “Alas, alas,” said Robin Hood,
            “I so miss Little John!”

            He drew his longsword out at once
            And held it by his knee,
            Then charged against the sheriff’s men
            Their staves now swinging free

            Thrice through did Robin come at them
            And those who saw it say
            He wounded countless armored guards
            And twelve he killed that day.

            His sword, upon the sheriff’s head,
            Abruptly broke in two.
            “The smith that made you,” Robin said,
            “Deserves to be run through!

            I’m weaponless, and so I yield,
            Before more blood is spilled.
            (And if I ran, they barred the gates—
            They’d surely have me killed.)”

            Catseye3C Offline
            Catseye3C Offline
            Catseye3
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            @Aqua-Letifer said in See, now, this just sucks.:

            White Sunday, when the flowers bloomed
            So brilliantly in May—
            They rivaled dawn’s own gilded glow—
            Such was the scene that day.

            Love this! I like it lots more than that Dickinson thing, truth to tell. Something mellifluous and, I don't know, inevitable and right about it.

            Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

            Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
            • Catseye3C Catseye3

              @Aqua-Letifer said in See, now, this just sucks.:

              There's no point in doing a translation if they have to look shit up regardless.

              Why? What makes modernity so sacrosanct? The poets/minstrels of their time's work was as legitimate to them as ours is to ours.

              If I'm interested, I'll do the research. If I'm not interested enough to do the work, I'll just have to do without.

              Aqua LetiferA Offline
              Aqua LetiferA Offline
              Aqua Letifer
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              @Catseye3 said in See, now, this just sucks.:

              @Aqua-Letifer said in See, now, this just sucks.:

              There's no point in doing a translation if they have to look shit up regardless.

              Why? What makes modernity so sacrosanct? The poets/minstrels of their time's work was as legitimate to them as ours is to ours.

              You may have missed my point a bit. I'm neither criticizing the original work nor translations generally. I'm criticizing the execution in this particular case.

              These were songs that were later written down—books were not the intended medium. As songs, the originals had a music to them that was an integral part of the performance. Doing a modern translation that ignores this is like baking a cake by omitting the flour. I don't know what you have when you do that, but it isn't what you're saying it is.

              Please love yourself.

              Catseye3C 1 Reply Last reply
              • Catseye3C Catseye3

                @Aqua-Letifer said in See, now, this just sucks.:

                White Sunday, when the flowers bloomed
                So brilliantly in May—
                They rivaled dawn’s own gilded glow—
                Such was the scene that day.

                Love this! I like it lots more than that Dickinson thing, truth to tell. Something mellifluous and, I don't know, inevitable and right about it.

                Aqua LetiferA Offline
                Aqua LetiferA Offline
                Aqua Letifer
                wrote on last edited by Aqua Letifer
                #7

                @Catseye3 said in See, now, this just sucks.:

                @Aqua-Letifer said in See, now, this just sucks.:

                White Sunday, when the flowers bloomed
                So brilliantly in May—
                They rivaled dawn’s own gilded glow—
                Such was the scene that day.

                Love this! I like it lots more than that Dickinson thing, truth to tell. Something mellifluous and, I don't know, inevitable and right about it.

                Thanks, but all credit due to the original—they built the house, I'm just trying my hand at bringing it up to code.

                A good rule of thumb when doing end rhymes is to complete the couplet in a way that's both unexpected, and when viewed in retrospect, couldn't have been anything else.

                That's the goal, anyway. Can't always hit it.

                Please love yourself.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                  @Catseye3 said in See, now, this just sucks.:

                  @Aqua-Letifer said in See, now, this just sucks.:

                  There's no point in doing a translation if they have to look shit up regardless.

                  Why? What makes modernity so sacrosanct? The poets/minstrels of their time's work was as legitimate to them as ours is to ours.

                  You may have missed my point a bit. I'm neither criticizing the original work nor translations generally. I'm criticizing the execution in this particular case.

                  These were songs that were later written down—books were not the intended medium. As songs, the originals had a music to them that was an integral part of the performance. Doing a modern translation that ignores this is like baking a cake by omitting the flour. I don't know what you have when you do that, but it isn't what you're saying it is.

                  Catseye3C Offline
                  Catseye3C Offline
                  Catseye3
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  @Aqua-Letifer said in See, now, this just sucks.:

                  I don't know what you have when you do that, but it isn't what you're saying it is.

                  I may have missed your point, but your point wasn't that clear until you explained it -- especially to someone like me who knows nothing about the subject.

                  So what then? If the written translation doesn't do it justice, maybe you could do a collaboration? Seems like that would be worth the effort.

                  Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

                  Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
                  • AxtremusA Away
                    AxtremusA Away
                    Axtremus
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    OK, just the first four lines:

                    夏木泛光辉
                    巨叶留長影
                    森林迎欢意
                    百鸟共歌鸣

                    Yeap, no word-for-word there. 😄

                    Aqua LetiferA MikM 2 Replies Last reply
                    • Catseye3C Catseye3

                      @Aqua-Letifer said in See, now, this just sucks.:

                      I don't know what you have when you do that, but it isn't what you're saying it is.

                      I may have missed your point, but your point wasn't that clear until you explained it -- especially to someone like me who knows nothing about the subject.

                      So what then? If the written translation doesn't do it justice, maybe you could do a collaboration? Seems like that would be worth the effort.

                      Aqua LetiferA Offline
                      Aqua LetiferA Offline
                      Aqua Letifer
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      @Catseye3 said in See, now, this just sucks.:

                      So what then? If the written translation doesn't do it justice, maybe you could do a collaboration? Seems like that would be worth the effort.

                      Well, the thing is, academics always do this. Always. They ruin the verse. On purpose, because it doesn't matter to them. They're obsessed with words and etymology but not what the original was supposed to sound like. It violates the spirit of the thing, and simply because they can't be bothered.

                      I'm collaborating all right—with whoever wrote the original. Forget that other guy. 😄

                      Please love yourself.

                      Catseye3C 1 Reply Last reply
                      • AxtremusA Axtremus

                        OK, just the first four lines:

                        夏木泛光辉
                        巨叶留長影
                        森林迎欢意
                        百鸟共歌鸣

                        Yeap, no word-for-word there. 😄

                        Aqua LetiferA Offline
                        Aqua LetiferA Offline
                        Aqua Letifer
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        @Axtremus said in See, now, this just sucks.:

                        OK, just the first four lines:

                        夏木泛光辉
                        巨叶留長影
                        森林迎欢意
                        百鸟共歌鸣

                        Yeap, no word-for-word there. 😄

                        Looks cool that way, though!

                        Please love yourself.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                          @Catseye3 said in See, now, this just sucks.:

                          So what then? If the written translation doesn't do it justice, maybe you could do a collaboration? Seems like that would be worth the effort.

                          Well, the thing is, academics always do this. Always. They ruin the verse. On purpose, because it doesn't matter to them. They're obsessed with words and etymology but not what the original was supposed to sound like. It violates the spirit of the thing, and simply because they can't be bothered.

                          I'm collaborating all right—with whoever wrote the original. Forget that other guy. 😄

                          Catseye3C Offline
                          Catseye3C Offline
                          Catseye3
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          @Aqua-Letifer said in See, now, this just sucks.:

                          They're obsessed with words and etymology but not what the original was supposed to sound like. It violates the spirit of the thing,

                          While you were writing the above I was thinking about editing my own post for clarification. By collaboration I was thinking about a collaboration not with someone else who does what you're trying to do -- what for? -- but with someone who specializes in the music of the time.

                          If such exists. Is anything known about that music? Even an approximation? Because how would you know if what you come up with is accurate? It's not like they had Memorex back then.

                          Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

                          Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
                          • Catseye3C Catseye3

                            @Aqua-Letifer said in See, now, this just sucks.:

                            They're obsessed with words and etymology but not what the original was supposed to sound like. It violates the spirit of the thing,

                            While you were writing the above I was thinking about editing my own post for clarification. By collaboration I was thinking about a collaboration not with someone else who does what you're trying to do -- what for? -- but with someone who specializes in the music of the time.

                            If such exists. Is anything known about that music? Even an approximation? Because how would you know if what you come up with is accurate? It's not like they had Memorex back then.

                            Aqua LetiferA Offline
                            Aqua LetiferA Offline
                            Aqua Letifer
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            @Catseye3 said in See, now, this just sucks.:

                            @Aqua-Letifer said in See, now, this just sucks.:

                            They're obsessed with words and etymology but not what the original was supposed to sound like. It violates the spirit of the thing,

                            While you were writing the above I was thinking about editing my own post for clarification. By collaboration I was thinking about a collaboration not with someone else who does what you're trying to do -- what for? -- but with someone who specializes in the music of the time.

                            If such exists. Is anything known about that music? Even an approximation? Because how would you know if what you come up with is accurate? It's not like they had Memorex back then.

                            Well, here's the thing:

                            Life back then wasn't like today. There were many regional differences when it came to ballads like this. Minstrels in your town might do it one way, minstrels in others might have used a different tune and altered the words a little or a lot.

                            Whoever wrote this particular version probably has his music lost to time, but it's a pretty straightforward ballad—period music could easily be attached to it.

                            As it happens, I know a handful of folks who could help me out with that and might even be interested in doing so. I might inquire.

                            Please love yourself.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • Doctor PhibesD Offline
                              Doctor PhibesD Offline
                              Doctor Phibes
                              wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
                              #14

                              @Aqua-Letifer said in See, now, this just sucks.:

                              This is, as far as anyone's aware, the oldest recorded story of Robin Hood.
                              https://mariahmccune.weebly.com/uploads/1/9/2/8/19282013/robin_hood_and_the_monk.pdf

                              First you give us Kevin Costner, and now this!

                              Will it never end?

                              Of course, it could be worse - you could let the Brits have a go:

                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Hood_(1991_British_film)

                              They filmed this monstrosity where I got married!

                              I was only joking

                              Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
                              • AxtremusA Away
                                AxtremusA Away
                                Axtremus
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                The only Robin Hood live action film that I remember seeing start to finish is this:
                                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Hood:_Men_in_Tights

                                I found it quite entertaining.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • AxtremusA Axtremus

                                  OK, just the first four lines:

                                  夏木泛光辉
                                  巨叶留長影
                                  森林迎欢意
                                  百鸟共歌鸣

                                  Yeap, no word-for-word there. 😄

                                  MikM Offline
                                  MikM Offline
                                  Mik
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  @Axtremus said in See, now, this just sucks.:

                                  OK, just the first four lines:

                                  夏木泛光辉
                                  巨叶留長影
                                  森林迎欢意
                                  百鸟共歌鸣

                                  Yeap, no word-for-word there. 😄

                                  Poetry for squares.

                                  “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                  AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • jon-nycJ Offline
                                    jon-nycJ Offline
                                    jon-nyc
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    That’s awesome Aqua

                                    "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
                                    -Cormac McCarthy

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • MikM Mik

                                      @Axtremus said in See, now, this just sucks.:

                                      OK, just the first four lines:

                                      夏木泛光辉
                                      巨叶留長影
                                      森林迎欢意
                                      百鸟共歌鸣

                                      Yeap, no word-for-word there. 😄

                                      Poetry for squares.

                                      AxtremusA Away
                                      AxtremusA Away
                                      Axtremus
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      @Mik said in See, now, this just sucks.:

                                      @Axtremus said in See, now, this just sucks.:

                                      OK, just the first four lines:

                                      夏木泛光辉
                                      巨叶留長影
                                      森林迎欢意
                                      百鸟共歌鸣

                                      Yeap, no word-for-word there. 😄

                                      Poetry for squares.

                                      五言绝句,five characters (five syllables) per line, four lines. It’s a classic form used as early as in the 汉 Han Dynasty and popularized in the 唐 Tang Dynasty.

                                      Catseye3C 1 Reply Last reply
                                      • AxtremusA Axtremus

                                        @Mik said in See, now, this just sucks.:

                                        @Axtremus said in See, now, this just sucks.:

                                        OK, just the first four lines:

                                        夏木泛光辉
                                        巨叶留長影
                                        森林迎欢意
                                        百鸟共歌鸣

                                        Yeap, no word-for-word there. 😄

                                        Poetry for squares.

                                        五言绝句,five characters (five syllables) per line, four lines. It’s a classic form used as early as in the 汉 Han Dynasty and popularized in the 唐 Tang Dynasty.

                                        Catseye3C Offline
                                        Catseye3C Offline
                                        Catseye3
                                        wrote on last edited by Catseye3
                                        #19

                                        @Axtremus

                                        Tangs for explaining.
                                        ^

                                        25333a70-0abc-4183-a212-d5ab45b94ca3-image.png

                                        Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                                          @Aqua-Letifer said in See, now, this just sucks.:

                                          This is, as far as anyone's aware, the oldest recorded story of Robin Hood.
                                          https://mariahmccune.weebly.com/uploads/1/9/2/8/19282013/robin_hood_and_the_monk.pdf

                                          First you give us Kevin Costner, and now this!

                                          Will it never end?

                                          Of course, it could be worse - you could let the Brits have a go:

                                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Hood_(1991_British_film)

                                          They filmed this monstrosity where I got married!

                                          Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                          Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                          Aqua Letifer
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          @Doctor-Phibes said in See, now, this just sucks.:

                                          @Aqua-Letifer said in See, now, this just sucks.:

                                          This is, as far as anyone's aware, the oldest recorded story of Robin Hood.
                                          

                                          https://mariahmccune.weebly.com/uploads/1/9/2/8/19282013/robin_hood_and_the_monk.pdf

                                          First you give us Kevin Costner, and now this!

                                          Will it never end?

                                          Of course, it could be worse - you could let the Brits have a go:

                                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Hood_(1991_British_film)

                                          They filmed this monstrosity where I got married!

                                          😂

                                          Please love yourself.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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