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The New Coffee Room

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  3. How many of you have tried to restrain...

How many of you have tried to restrain...

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  • X xenon
    5 Jun 2020, 17:38

    My wife is a mental health nurse. One of her first gigs was night shift at an addictions recovery facility. This question literally kept me up at night for a couple of months until I and siblings pestered her enough to change her job.

    I agree with you that lay people don't appreciate the risks to a police officer and why overwhelming force sometimes needs to be used. For example, there is a vid of when the Seattle police unleashed on a crowd with pepper spray and flash bangs - on social media there was a big harangue about brutality. But you can't jab a crowd - the police were outnumbered 10:1, if you decide to use force you have to make the crowed disperse, else you've just pissed them off.

    But back to the Floyd example - there's 4 cops there and the officer is sitting on the dude. This one feels pretty black and white to me.

    J Offline
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    Jolly
    wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 17:51 last edited by
    #6

    @xenon said in How many of you have tried to restrain...:

    My wife is a mental health nurse. One of her first gigs was night shift at an addictions recovery facility. This question literally kept me up at night for a couple of months until I and siblings pestered her enough to change her job.

    I agree with you that lay people don't appreciate the risks to a police officer and why overwhelming force sometimes needs to be used. For example, there is a vid of when the Seattle police unleashed on a crowd with pepper spray and flash bangs - on social media there was a big harangue about brutality. But you can't jab a crowd - the police were outnumbered 10:1, if you decide to use force you have to make the crowed disperse, else you've just pissed them off.

    But back to the Floyd example - there's 4 cops there and the officer is sitting on the dude. This one feels pretty black and white to me.

    The Floyd example has already been judged as too much.

    How much is enough?

    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

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    • M Offline
      M Offline
      Mik
      wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:04 last edited by Mik 6 May 2020, 18:11
      #7

      Enough is the minimum necessary to prevent harm to the subject and those around him and to maintain order. I add to maintain order because these things can easily spill over and involve others. Completely situational and a matter of judgement.

      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

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      • M Offline
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        Mik
        wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:08 last edited by
        #8

        And yes, I have several times.

        “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

        J 1 Reply Last reply 5 Jun 2020, 18:14
        • M Mik
          5 Jun 2020, 18:08

          And yes, I have several times.

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          Jolly
          wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:14 last edited by
          #9

          @Mik said in How many of you have tried to restrain...:

          And yes, I have several times.

          Then you know how hard it is. Subduing a grown man is not an easy task. Subduing a grown man who is combative and higher than a kite is a very tough task...

          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

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          • J Online
            J Online
            jon-nyc
            wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:15 last edited by
            #10

            Not since my fraternity brothers and I raped 1 in 5 college women that came to our parties in the late 80s.

            Only non-witches get due process.

            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
            J M 2 Replies Last reply 5 Jun 2020, 18:16
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              Mik
              wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:15 last edited by
              #11

              Absolutely. I have had to restrain guys high as a kite on LSD, PCP and ketamine. For tranquilizers they sure make a guy strong.

              “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

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              • J jon-nyc
                5 Jun 2020, 18:15

                Not since my fraternity brothers and I raped 1 in 5 college women that came to our parties in the late 80s.

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                Jolly
                wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:16 last edited by
                #12

                @jon-nyc said in How many of you have tried to restrain...:

                Not since my fraternity brothers and I raped 1 in 5 college women that came to our parties in the late 80s.

                Yeah, but those weren't grown men. Even you could handle a woman...

                “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

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                • J jon-nyc
                  5 Jun 2020, 18:15

                  Not since my fraternity brothers and I raped 1 in 5 college women that came to our parties in the late 80s.

                  M Offline
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                  Mik
                  wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:16 last edited by
                  #13

                  @jon-nyc said in How many of you have tried to restrain...:

                  Not since my fraternity brothers and I raped 1 in 5 college women that came to our parties in the late 80s.

                  So I guess the men fought back. Should have stuck with the women. 😆

                  “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

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                  • L Offline
                    L Offline
                    Larry
                    wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:20 last edited by
                    #14

                    I heard on the news that 2 of those 3 cops had only been on the force for a week. I might have heard that wrong, but that's what I think they said.

                    K M 2 Replies Last reply 5 Jun 2020, 18:22
                    • L Offline
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                      Larry
                      wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:22 last edited by
                      #15

                      I've never actually tried to restrain a man. I always figured if he was that out of control the safest thing is to just knock him out and be done with it.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • L Larry
                        5 Jun 2020, 18:20

                        I heard on the news that 2 of those 3 cops had only been on the force for a week. I might have heard that wrong, but that's what I think they said.

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                        kluurs
                        wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:22 last edited by kluurs 6 May 2020, 18:23
                        #16

                        @Larry That is correct. One had worked 3 shifts, another 4. Their "trainer" supervisor was the guy who was holding down George Floyd.

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                        • L Larry
                          5 Jun 2020, 18:20

                          I heard on the news that 2 of those 3 cops had only been on the force for a week. I might have heard that wrong, but that's what I think they said.

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                          Mik
                          wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:23 last edited by
                          #17

                          @Larry said in How many of you have tried to restrain...:

                          I heard on the news that 2 of those 3 cops had only been on the force for a week. I might have heard that wrong, but that's what I think they said.

                          Heard that too. The kneeler was supposedly training them.

                          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

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                          • J Online
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                            jon-nyc
                            wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:23 last edited by jon-nyc 6 May 2020, 18:23
                            #18

                            Interesting. I'm sure that'll figure large in their trials.

                            Only non-witches get due process.

                            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                            G 1 Reply Last reply 5 Jun 2020, 18:29
                            • J jon-nyc
                              5 Jun 2020, 18:23

                              Interesting. I'm sure that'll figure large in their trials.

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                              George K
                              wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:29 last edited by
                              #19

                              @jon-nyc said in How many of you have tried to restrain...:

                              Interesting. I'm sure that'll figure large in their trials.

                              Think so? The "I was only following orders" defense probably doesn't wash, particularly when you see a homicide occurring.

                              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

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