How many of you have tried to restrain...
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wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 17:27 last edited by Jolly 6 May 2020, 17:28
...a mentally ill person or somebody who is intoxicated or on illegal drugs?
It's not easy. In fact, it can become very violent, very quickly. And I don't know about you, but I'd like to keep my hide intact and all my teeth in my head.
Now, regardless of Floyd's death (BTW, he was on fentanyl and marijuana), the cop was determined to have used improper technique and excessive force, which was why the cop was arrested and charged.
The question now is...How much force can a police officer use in subduing a suspect?
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...a mentally ill person or somebody who is intoxicated or on illegal drugs?
It's not easy. In fact, it can become very violent, very quickly. And I don't know about you, but I'd like to keep my hide intact and all my teeth in my head.
Now, regardless of Floyd's death (BTW, he was on fentanyl and marijuana), the cop was determined to have used improper technique and excessive force, which was why the cop was arrested and charged.
The question now is...How much force can a police officer use in subduing a suspect?
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 17:32 last edited by@Jolly said in How many of you have tried to restrain...:
...a mentally ill person or somebody who is intoxicated or on illegal drugs?
It's not easy. In fact, it can become very violent, very quickly.
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wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 17:38 last edited by
My wife is a mental health nurse. One of her first gigs was night shift at an addictions recovery facility. This question literally kept me up at night for a couple of months until I and siblings pestered her enough to change her job.
I agree with you that lay people don't appreciate the risks to a police officer and why overwhelming force sometimes needs to be used. For example, there is a vid of when the Seattle police unleashed on a crowd with pepper spray and flash bangs - on social media there was a big harangue about brutality. But you can't jab a crowd - the police were outnumbered 10:1, if you decide to use force you have to make the crowed disperse, else you've just pissed them off.
But back to the Floyd example - there's 4 cops there and the officer is sitting on the dude. This one feels pretty black and white to me.
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My wife is a mental health nurse. One of her first gigs was night shift at an addictions recovery facility. This question literally kept me up at night for a couple of months until I and siblings pestered her enough to change her job.
I agree with you that lay people don't appreciate the risks to a police officer and why overwhelming force sometimes needs to be used. For example, there is a vid of when the Seattle police unleashed on a crowd with pepper spray and flash bangs - on social media there was a big harangue about brutality. But you can't jab a crowd - the police were outnumbered 10:1, if you decide to use force you have to make the crowed disperse, else you've just pissed them off.
But back to the Floyd example - there's 4 cops there and the officer is sitting on the dude. This one feels pretty black and white to me.
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 17:43 last edited by LuFins Dad 6 May 2020, 17:49@xenon said in How many of you have tried to restrain...:
But back to the Floyd example - there's 4 cops there and the officer is sitting on the dude. This one feels pretty black and white to me.
I'm with you right up to the black and white part. I don't think black and white had anything to do with it.
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wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 17:45 last edited by
I don't think anybody on the social justice side of the debate has any interest in thinking very hard about the practical difficulty of a country maintaining a useful police force which has zero filmed incidents of unfair violence towards suspects. Not when every individual on that police force has to toe lines like the ones Jolly described, on a regular basis through the course of trying to do their jobs to earn their middle class incomes.
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My wife is a mental health nurse. One of her first gigs was night shift at an addictions recovery facility. This question literally kept me up at night for a couple of months until I and siblings pestered her enough to change her job.
I agree with you that lay people don't appreciate the risks to a police officer and why overwhelming force sometimes needs to be used. For example, there is a vid of when the Seattle police unleashed on a crowd with pepper spray and flash bangs - on social media there was a big harangue about brutality. But you can't jab a crowd - the police were outnumbered 10:1, if you decide to use force you have to make the crowed disperse, else you've just pissed them off.
But back to the Floyd example - there's 4 cops there and the officer is sitting on the dude. This one feels pretty black and white to me.
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 17:51 last edited by@xenon said in How many of you have tried to restrain...:
My wife is a mental health nurse. One of her first gigs was night shift at an addictions recovery facility. This question literally kept me up at night for a couple of months until I and siblings pestered her enough to change her job.
I agree with you that lay people don't appreciate the risks to a police officer and why overwhelming force sometimes needs to be used. For example, there is a vid of when the Seattle police unleashed on a crowd with pepper spray and flash bangs - on social media there was a big harangue about brutality. But you can't jab a crowd - the police were outnumbered 10:1, if you decide to use force you have to make the crowed disperse, else you've just pissed them off.
But back to the Floyd example - there's 4 cops there and the officer is sitting on the dude. This one feels pretty black and white to me.
The Floyd example has already been judged as too much.
How much is enough?
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wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:04 last edited by Mik 6 May 2020, 18:11
Enough is the minimum necessary to prevent harm to the subject and those around him and to maintain order. I add to maintain order because these things can easily spill over and involve others. Completely situational and a matter of judgement.
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wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:08 last edited by
And yes, I have several times.
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wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:14 last edited by
@Mik said in How many of you have tried to restrain...:
And yes, I have several times.
Then you know how hard it is. Subduing a grown man is not an easy task. Subduing a grown man who is combative and higher than a kite is a very tough task...
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wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:15 last edited by
Not since my fraternity brothers and I raped 1 in 5 college women that came to our parties in the late 80s.
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wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:15 last edited by
Absolutely. I have had to restrain guys high as a kite on LSD, PCP and ketamine. For tranquilizers they sure make a guy strong.
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Not since my fraternity brothers and I raped 1 in 5 college women that came to our parties in the late 80s.
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:16 last edited by@jon-nyc said in How many of you have tried to restrain...:
Not since my fraternity brothers and I raped 1 in 5 college women that came to our parties in the late 80s.
Yeah, but those weren't grown men. Even you could handle a woman...
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Not since my fraternity brothers and I raped 1 in 5 college women that came to our parties in the late 80s.
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:16 last edited by@jon-nyc said in How many of you have tried to restrain...:
Not since my fraternity brothers and I raped 1 in 5 college women that came to our parties in the late 80s.
So I guess the men fought back. Should have stuck with the women.
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wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:20 last edited by
I heard on the news that 2 of those 3 cops had only been on the force for a week. I might have heard that wrong, but that's what I think they said.
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wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:22 last edited by
I've never actually tried to restrain a man. I always figured if he was that out of control the safest thing is to just knock him out and be done with it.
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I heard on the news that 2 of those 3 cops had only been on the force for a week. I might have heard that wrong, but that's what I think they said.
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I heard on the news that 2 of those 3 cops had only been on the force for a week. I might have heard that wrong, but that's what I think they said.
wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:23 last edited by@Larry said in How many of you have tried to restrain...:
I heard on the news that 2 of those 3 cops had only been on the force for a week. I might have heard that wrong, but that's what I think they said.
Heard that too. The kneeler was supposedly training them.
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wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:23 last edited by jon-nyc 6 May 2020, 18:23
Interesting. I'm sure that'll figure large in their trials.
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wrote on 5 Jun 2020, 18:29 last edited by
@jon-nyc said in How many of you have tried to restrain...:
Interesting. I'm sure that'll figure large in their trials.
Think so? The "I was only following orders" defense probably doesn't wash, particularly when you see a homicide occurring.