She who would be president...
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You weren’t paying attention, much of this was done openly. He tried to get local officials to decline to certify the vote in heavily Biden leaning districts (MI). He famously tried to get the GA Secretary of State to “find” 11k votes with an implied (or maybe explicit, I don’t remember) threat if he should fail. His legal team tried to get state legislatures to send in a competing slate of electors, in certain states he lost, and he pressured the VP to decline to certify the votes of certain states he lost. Each of these could have been successful but for upstanding civil servants (including the VP) that didn’t want our 250 year old democracy’s blood on their hands.
It is a very real concern that many of these roles have since been filled by cult members who would show no such restraint.
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
You weren’t paying attention. He tried to get local officials to decline to certify the vote in heavily Biden leaning districts (MI). He famously tried to get the GA Secretary of State to “find” 11k votes with an implied (or maybe explicit, I don’t remember) threat if he should fail. His legal team tried to get state legislatures to send in a competing slate of electors, in certain states he lost, and he pressured the VP to decline to certify the votes of certain states he lost. Each of these could have been successful but for upstanding civil servants (including the VP) that didn’t want our 250 year old democracy’s blood on their hands.
I mean an actual story, not some handwavy claim about what he tried to do. A story, characterized by one plausible event after another, which ends with God Emperor Trump.
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@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
@Horace said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
I’ve always considered her positively dangerous. That’s not hyperbole.
Did you ever reach a conclusion about whether you would have preferred her to Trump, or do you refuse to cognitively go there? I understand you'd have voted third party in such an election, but a preference could still exist.
Her easily, in that her errors are reversible. Once democracy is ended it’s hard to come back from that. We can reverse bad regulations though.
Methinks you give The Don far too much credit.
Perhaps next time...
@Jolly said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
@Horace said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
I’ve always considered her positively dangerous. That’s not hyperbole.
Did you ever reach a conclusion about whether you would have preferred her to Trump, or do you refuse to cognitively go there? I understand you'd have voted third party in such an election, but a preference could still exist.
Her easily, in that her errors are reversible. Once democracy is ended it’s hard to come back from that. We can reverse bad regulations though.
Methinks you give The Don far too much credit.
One of the eternal contradictions of the TDS mind is that Trump is considered in some ways all-powerful, and in others, a total loser who's incapable of accomplishing anything.
I am sure both sides of the culture wars can agree that we don't want a system so brittle that a bad actor president can choose to make himself (or herself, or blerself) God Emperor by jumping through a couple plausible hoops here and there. Odd that we don't discuss ways to shore up the system against bad actors, but rather, only concentrate on perpetuating hate against a certain bad actor and the party that hosted him.
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You weren’t paying attention, much of this was done openly. He tried to get local officials to decline to certify the vote in heavily Biden leaning districts (MI). He famously tried to get the GA Secretary of State to “find” 11k votes with an implied (or maybe explicit, I don’t remember) threat if he should fail. His legal team tried to get state legislatures to send in a competing slate of electors, in certain states he lost, and he pressured the VP to decline to certify the votes of certain states he lost. Each of these could have been successful but for upstanding civil servants (including the VP) that didn’t want our 250 year old democracy’s blood on their hands.
It is a very real concern that many of these roles have since been filled by cult members who would show no such restraint.
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
You weren’t paying attention, much of this was done openly. He tried to get local officials to decline to certify the vote in heavily Biden leaning districts (MI). He famously tried to get the GA Secretary of State to “find” 11k votes with an implied (or maybe explicit, I don’t remember) threat if he should fail. His legal team tried to get state legislatures to send in a competing slate of electors, in certain states he lost, and he pressured the VP to decline to certify the votes of certain states he lost. Each of these could have been successful but for upstanding civil servants (including the VP) that didn’t want our 250 year old democracy’s blood on their hands.
It is a very real concern that many of these roles have since been filled by cult members who would show no such restraint.
But none of that was illegal. Outside of the box, somewhat sleazy, but still legal.
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@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
You weren’t paying attention, much of this was done openly. He tried to get local officials to decline to certify the vote in heavily Biden leaning districts (MI). He famously tried to get the GA Secretary of State to “find” 11k votes with an implied (or maybe explicit, I don’t remember) threat if he should fail. His legal team tried to get state legislatures to send in a competing slate of electors, in certain states he lost, and he pressured the VP to decline to certify the votes of certain states he lost. Each of these could have been successful but for upstanding civil servants (including the VP) that didn’t want our 250 year old democracy’s blood on their hands.
It is a very real concern that many of these roles have since been filled by cult members who would show no such restraint.
But none of that was illegal. Outside of the box, somewhat sleazy, but still legal.
@Jolly said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
You weren’t paying attention, much of this was done openly. He tried to get local officials to decline to certify the vote in heavily Biden leaning districts (MI). He famously tried to get the GA Secretary of State to “find” 11k votes with an implied (or maybe explicit, I don’t remember) threat if he should fail. His legal team tried to get state legislatures to send in a competing slate of electors, in certain states he lost, and he pressured the VP to decline to certify the votes of certain states he lost. Each of these could have been successful but for upstanding civil servants (including the VP) that didn’t want our 250 year old democracy’s blood on their hands.
It is a very real concern that many of these roles have since been filled by cult members who would show no such restraint.
But none of that was illegal. Outside of the box, somewhat sleazy, but still legal.
Threatening Raffensperger was probably illegal, and may still result in an indictment. Possibly VP pence too. But to the original point, any of them, should they happen, will functionally end our democracy.
Really. How much of a democracy would it be if VP Harris could pick and choose which states to certify? If individual non-elected partisans could decertify counties that vote for the other guy?
"You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
-Cormac McCarthy -
@Jolly said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
You weren’t paying attention, much of this was done openly. He tried to get local officials to decline to certify the vote in heavily Biden leaning districts (MI). He famously tried to get the GA Secretary of State to “find” 11k votes with an implied (or maybe explicit, I don’t remember) threat if he should fail. His legal team tried to get state legislatures to send in a competing slate of electors, in certain states he lost, and he pressured the VP to decline to certify the votes of certain states he lost. Each of these could have been successful but for upstanding civil servants (including the VP) that didn’t want our 250 year old democracy’s blood on their hands.
It is a very real concern that many of these roles have since been filled by cult members who would show no such restraint.
But none of that was illegal. Outside of the box, somewhat sleazy, but still legal.
Threatening Raffensperger was probably illegal, and may still result in an indictment. Possibly VP pence too. But to the original point, any of them, should they happen, will functionally end our democracy.
Really. How much of a democracy would it be if VP Harris could pick and choose which states to certify? If individual non-elected partisans could decertify counties that vote for the other guy?
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
Really. How much of a democracy would it be if VP Harris could pick and choose which states to certify? If individual non-elected partisans could decertify counties that vote for the other guy?
I'm sure we're all concerned about existing loopholes, capable of overturning results of elections, only not exploited because of the honor system. So let's close those loopholes.
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There is a bipartisan bill to clean up the final count in congress.
The states probably have to clean up their own, and several state governments, rather than express a desire to fix it, are salivating over the new “found” power. The QAnon candidate for PA has more or less promised to pre-steal the election in 2024.
"You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
-Cormac McCarthy -
@Jolly said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
You weren’t paying attention, much of this was done openly. He tried to get local officials to decline to certify the vote in heavily Biden leaning districts (MI). He famously tried to get the GA Secretary of State to “find” 11k votes with an implied (or maybe explicit, I don’t remember) threat if he should fail. His legal team tried to get state legislatures to send in a competing slate of electors, in certain states he lost, and he pressured the VP to decline to certify the votes of certain states he lost. Each of these could have been successful but for upstanding civil servants (including the VP) that didn’t want our 250 year old democracy’s blood on their hands.
It is a very real concern that many of these roles have since been filled by cult members who would show no such restraint.
But none of that was illegal. Outside of the box, somewhat sleazy, but still legal.
Threatening Raffensperger was probably illegal, and may still result in an indictment. Possibly VP pence too. But to the original point, any of them, should they happen, will functionally end our democracy.
Really. How much of a democracy would it be if VP Harris could pick and choose which states to certify? If individual non-elected partisans could decertify counties that vote for the other guy?
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
@Jolly said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
You weren’t paying attention, much of this was done openly. He tried to get local officials to decline to certify the vote in heavily Biden leaning districts (MI). He famously tried to get the GA Secretary of State to “find” 11k votes with an implied (or maybe explicit, I don’t remember) threat if he should fail. His legal team tried to get state legislatures to send in a competing slate of electors, in certain states he lost, and he pressured the VP to decline to certify the votes of certain states he lost. Each of these could have been successful but for upstanding civil servants (including the VP) that didn’t want our 250 year old democracy’s blood on their hands.
It is a very real concern that many of these roles have since been filled by cult members who would show no such restraint.
But none of that was illegal. Outside of the box, somewhat sleazy, but still legal.
Threatening Raffensperger was probably illegal, and may still result in an indictment. Possibly VP pence too. But to the original point, any of them, should they happen, will functionally end our democracy.
Really. How much of a democracy would it be if VP Harris could pick and choose which states to certify? If individual non-elected partisans could decertify counties that vote for the other guy?
Hyperbole.
'Tis no whiff of grapeshot in any of that.
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There is a bipartisan bill to clean up the final count in congress.
The states probably have to clean up their own, and several state governments, rather than express a desire to fix it, are salivating over the new “found” power. The QAnon candidate for PA has more or less promised to pre-steal the election in 2024.
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
There is a bipartisan bill to clean up the final count in congress.
The states probably have to clean up their own, and several state governments, rather than express a desire to fix it, are salivating over the new “found” power.
IIRC, Wisconsin did so this week.
Good.
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It’s hard to know what your specific claim is given your colorful metaphor.
You mean none of them could happen? There was only the character and patriotism of a few people that stopped it from happening in 2020. Both of which are being purged from the Trump party.
You mean they wouldn’t put an end to democracy in practice? Of course any of those examples would. You give me the power to decide which texas, PA, and FL country results are legit and I’ll deliver the President I want.
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It’s hard to know what your specific claim is given your colorful metaphor.
You mean none of them could happen? There was only the character and patriotism of a few people that stopped it from happening in 2020. Both of which are being purged from the Trump party.
You mean they wouldn’t put an end to democracy in practice? Of course any of those examples would. You give me the power to decide which texas, PA, and FL country results are legit and I’ll deliver the President I want.
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
It’s hard to know what your specific claim is given your colorful metaphor.
You mean none of them could happen? There was only the character and patriotism of a few people that stopped it from happening in 2020. Both of which are being purged from the Trump party.
You mean they wouldn’t put an end to democracy in practice? Of course any of those examples would. You give me the power to decide which texas, PA, and FL country results are legit and I’ll deliver the President I want.
You mean like the Dems flipped the Rove counties?
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@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
It’s hard to know what your specific claim is given your colorful metaphor.
You mean none of them could happen? There was only the character and patriotism of a few people that stopped it from happening in 2020. Both of which are being purged from the Trump party.
You mean they wouldn’t put an end to democracy in practice? Of course any of those examples would. You give me the power to decide which texas, PA, and FL country results are legit and I’ll deliver the President I want.
You mean like the Dems flipped the Rove counties?
@Jolly said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
It’s hard to know what your specific claim is given your colorful metaphor.
You mean none of them could happen? There was only the character and patriotism of a few people that stopped it from happening in 2020. Both of which are being purged from the Trump party.
You mean they wouldn’t put an end to democracy in practice? Of course any of those examples would. You give me the power to decide which texas, PA, and FL country results are legit and I’ll deliver the President I want.
You mean like the Dems flipped the Rove counties?
I don’t understand your reference.
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@Jolly said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
It’s hard to know what your specific claim is given your colorful metaphor.
You mean none of them could happen? There was only the character and patriotism of a few people that stopped it from happening in 2020. Both of which are being purged from the Trump party.
You mean they wouldn’t put an end to democracy in practice? Of course any of those examples would. You give me the power to decide which texas, PA, and FL country results are legit and I’ll deliver the President I want.
You mean like the Dems flipped the Rove counties?
I don’t understand your reference.
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
@Jolly said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
It’s hard to know what your specific claim is given your colorful metaphor.
You mean none of them could happen? There was only the character and patriotism of a few people that stopped it from happening in 2020. Both of which are being purged from the Trump party.
You mean they wouldn’t put an end to democracy in practice? Of course any of those examples would. You give me the power to decide which texas, PA, and FL country results are legit and I’ll deliver the President I want.
You mean like the Dems flipped the Rove counties?
I don’t understand your reference.
I'm too lazy to look them up, but Rove has a short list of counties that are highly predictive of who wins the Presidential race. When he called it a night on the night of the election, Trump had won all but two of them. IIRC, it's the first time in the last half-century or so that has happened, where the winner of those counties was not elected President..
It's just another one of those things which just didn't quite pass the sniff test. There were several others.
Which is why, if the Dems had any sense, they would bally-hoo election reform more than the GOP, instead of trying to let illegals vote. Clouded elections are no good for anybody.
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