She who would be president...
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@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
I’ve always considered her positively dangerous. That’s not hyperbole.
Did you ever reach a conclusion about whether you would have preferred her to Trump, or do you refuse to cognitively go there? I understand you'd have voted third party in such an election, but a preference could still exist.
@Horace said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
I’ve always considered her positively dangerous. That’s not hyperbole.
Did you ever reach a conclusion about whether you would have preferred her to Trump, or do you refuse to cognitively go there? I understand you'd have voted third party in such an election, but a preference could still exist.
Her easily, in that her errors are reversible. Once democracy is ended it’s hard to come back from that. We can reverse bad regulations though.
"You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
-Cormac McCarthy -
Standardizing the charging interfaces for phones (or more generally, for low powered electrical devices in general) is a very good idea. Will lower cost for most consumers, cut down a lot of industrial wastes, conserve more resources, better for the environment, etc.
Ideally standards of this sort should come from the industry in the private sector. From that perspective, it’s tempting to say that perhaps the legislators/government should spend their time elsewhere.
But historically just about every major manufacturer of phones and low-powered electronic devices have introduced multiple incompatible charging interfaces. From that perspective, it becomes more reasonable for the government to step in, because the private sector on their own have proven incapable of aligning towards a common standard.
Yeah, you can argue that a common standard may suppress innovation (yet history has also shown that having common standards at the base spurred innovation). You can also argue that by this time most phone makers have aligned on USB-C (except, glaringly, Apple, Inc.) so where is the urgency of introducing this sort of legislation now?
While I hope Warren won’t waste time drafting or waste political capital promoting this sort of legislation, I have no problem with her (or any other legislator) supporting/voting for this sort of legislation if someone else have already spent the time drafting and the political capital promoting it.
Ultimately, while not urgent in the grand scheme of things, it’s also not a bad idea; heck, it’s a rather reasonable, sensible idea.
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Standardizing the charging interfaces for phones (or more generally, for low powered electrical devices in general) is a very good idea. Will lower cost for most consumers, cut down a lot of industrial wastes, conserve more resources, better for the environment, etc.
Ideally standards of this sort should come from the industry in the private sector. From that perspective, it’s tempting to say that perhaps the legislators/government should spend their time elsewhere.
But historically just about every major manufacturer of phones and low-powered electronic devices have introduced multiple incompatible charging interfaces. From that perspective, it becomes more reasonable for the government to step in, because the private sector on their own have proven incapable of aligning towards a common standard.
Yeah, you can argue that a common standard may suppress innovation (yet history has also shown that having common standards at the base spurred innovation). You can also argue that by this time most phone makers have aligned on USB-C (except, glaringly, Apple, Inc.) so where is the urgency of introducing this sort of legislation now?
While I hope Warren won’t waste time drafting or waste political capital promoting this sort of legislation, I have no problem with her (or any other legislator) supporting/voting for this sort of legislation if someone else have already spent the time drafting and the political capital promoting it.
Ultimately, while not urgent in the grand scheme of things, it’s also not a bad idea; heck, it’s a rather reasonable, sensible idea.
@Axtremus said in She who would be president...:
Standardizing the charging interfaces for phones (or more generally, for low powered electrical devices in general) is a very good idea. Will lower cost for most consumers, cut down a lot of industrial wastes, conserve more resources, better for the environment, etc.
Ideally standards of this sort should come from the industry in the private sector. From that perspective, it’s tempting to say that perhaps the legislators/government should spend their time elsewhere.
But historically just about every major manufacturer of phones and low-powered electronic devices have introduced multiple incompatible charging interfaces. From that perspective, it becomes more reasonable for the government to step in, because the private sector on their own have proven incapable of aligning towards a common standard.
Yeah, you can argue that a common standard may suppress innovation (yet history has also shown that having common standards at the base spurred innovation). You can also argue that by this time most phone makers have aligned on USB-C (except, glaringly, Apple, Inc.) so where is the urgency of introducing this sort of legislation now?
While I hope Warren won’t waste time drafting or waste political capital promoting this sort of legislation, I have no problem with her (or any other legislator) supporting/voting for this sort of legislation if someone else have already spent the time drafting and the political capital promoting it.
Ultimately, while not urgent in the grand scheme of things, it’s also not a bad idea; heck, it’s a rather reasonable, sensible idea.
You won't read the final thoughts, gathered over a lifetime, of those looking back over their experiences and synthesizing their lessons learned. And yet you expect others to read this text wall about charging interfaces? Your priorities are out of whack sir.
Education is extremely important.
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A Axtremus referenced this topic on
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@Horace said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
I’ve always considered her positively dangerous. That’s not hyperbole.
Did you ever reach a conclusion about whether you would have preferred her to Trump, or do you refuse to cognitively go there? I understand you'd have voted third party in such an election, but a preference could still exist.
Her easily, in that her errors are reversible. Once democracy is ended it’s hard to come back from that. We can reverse bad regulations though.
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
@Horace said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
I’ve always considered her positively dangerous. That’s not hyperbole.
Did you ever reach a conclusion about whether you would have preferred her to Trump, or do you refuse to cognitively go there? I understand you'd have voted third party in such an election, but a preference could still exist.
Her easily, in that her errors are reversible. Once democracy is ended it’s hard to come back from that. We can reverse bad regulations though.
Methinks you give The Don far too much credit.
Perhaps next time...
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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@Axtremus said in She who would be president...:
Standardizing the charging interfaces for phones (or more generally, for low powered electrical devices in general) is a very good idea. Will lower cost for most consumers, cut down a lot of industrial wastes, conserve more resources, better for the environment, etc.
Ideally standards of this sort should come from the industry in the private sector. From that perspective, it’s tempting to say that perhaps the legislators/government should spend their time elsewhere.
But historically just about every major manufacturer of phones and low-powered electronic devices have introduced multiple incompatible charging interfaces. From that perspective, it becomes more reasonable for the government to step in, because the private sector on their own have proven incapable of aligning towards a common standard.
Yeah, you can argue that a common standard may suppress innovation (yet history has also shown that having common standards at the base spurred innovation). You can also argue that by this time most phone makers have aligned on USB-C (except, glaringly, Apple, Inc.) so where is the urgency of introducing this sort of legislation now?
While I hope Warren won’t waste time drafting or waste political capital promoting this sort of legislation, I have no problem with her (or any other legislator) supporting/voting for this sort of legislation if someone else have already spent the time drafting and the political capital promoting it.
Ultimately, while not urgent in the grand scheme of things, it’s also not a bad idea; heck, it’s a rather reasonable, sensible idea.
You won't read the final thoughts, gathered over a lifetime, of those looking back over their experiences and synthesizing their lessons learned. And yet you expect others to read this text wall about charging interfaces? Your priorities are out of whack sir.
@Horace said in She who would be president...:
@Axtremus said in She who would be president...:
Standardizing the charging interfaces for phones (or more generally, for low powered electrical devices in general) is a very good idea. Will lower cost for most consumers, cut down a lot of industrial wastes, conserve more resources, better for the environment, etc.
Ideally standards of this sort should come from the industry in the private sector. From that perspective, it’s tempting to say that perhaps the legislators/government should spend their time elsewhere.
But historically just about every major manufacturer of phones and low-powered electronic devices have introduced multiple incompatible charging interfaces. From that perspective, it becomes more reasonable for the government to step in, because the private sector on their own have proven incapable of aligning towards a common standard.
Yeah, you can argue that a common standard may suppress innovation (yet history has also shown that having common standards at the base spurred innovation). You can also argue that by this time most phone makers have aligned on USB-C (except, glaringly, Apple, Inc.) so where is the urgency of introducing this sort of legislation now?
While I hope Warren won’t waste time drafting or waste political capital promoting this sort of legislation, I have no problem with her (or any other legislator) supporting/voting for this sort of legislation if someone else have already spent the time drafting and the political capital promoting it.
Ultimately, while not urgent in the grand scheme of things, it’s also not a bad idea; heck, it’s a rather reasonable, sensible idea.
You won't read the final thoughts, gathered over a lifetime, of those looking back over their experiences and synthesizing their lessons learned. And yet you expect others to read this text wall about charging interfaces? Your priorities are out of whack sir.
I didn't see that, I had to go back and look for myself. Yep, that's hilarious.
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@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
@Horace said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
I’ve always considered her positively dangerous. That’s not hyperbole.
Did you ever reach a conclusion about whether you would have preferred her to Trump, or do you refuse to cognitively go there? I understand you'd have voted third party in such an election, but a preference could still exist.
Her easily, in that her errors are reversible. Once democracy is ended it’s hard to come back from that. We can reverse bad regulations though.
Methinks you give The Don far too much credit.
Perhaps next time...
@Jolly said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
@Horace said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
I’ve always considered her positively dangerous. That’s not hyperbole.
Did you ever reach a conclusion about whether you would have preferred her to Trump, or do you refuse to cognitively go there? I understand you'd have voted third party in such an election, but a preference could still exist.
Her easily, in that her errors are reversible. Once democracy is ended it’s hard to come back from that. We can reverse bad regulations though.
Methinks you give The Don far too much credit.
Perhaps next time...
It’s true that he failed. But only due to the character and conscience of a rather small handful of mostly unknown, mostly local functionaries. But he certainly tried, publicly and privately, and could well be successful in a second attempt.
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You weren’t paying attention, much of this was done openly. He tried to get local officials to decline to certify the vote in heavily Biden leaning districts (MI). He famously tried to get the GA Secretary of State to “find” 11k votes with an implied (or maybe explicit, I don’t remember) threat if he should fail. His legal team tried to get state legislatures to send in a competing slate of electors, in certain states he lost, and he pressured the VP to decline to certify the votes of certain states he lost. Each of these could have been successful but for upstanding civil servants (including the VP) that didn’t want our 250 year old democracy’s blood on their hands.
It is a very real concern that many of these roles have since been filled by cult members who would show no such restraint.
"You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
-Cormac McCarthy -
You weren’t paying attention, much of this was done openly. He tried to get local officials to decline to certify the vote in heavily Biden leaning districts (MI). He famously tried to get the GA Secretary of State to “find” 11k votes with an implied (or maybe explicit, I don’t remember) threat if he should fail. His legal team tried to get state legislatures to send in a competing slate of electors, in certain states he lost, and he pressured the VP to decline to certify the votes of certain states he lost. Each of these could have been successful but for upstanding civil servants (including the VP) that didn’t want our 250 year old democracy’s blood on their hands.
It is a very real concern that many of these roles have since been filled by cult members who would show no such restraint.
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
You weren’t paying attention. He tried to get local officials to decline to certify the vote in heavily Biden leaning districts (MI). He famously tried to get the GA Secretary of State to “find” 11k votes with an implied (or maybe explicit, I don’t remember) threat if he should fail. His legal team tried to get state legislatures to send in a competing slate of electors, in certain states he lost, and he pressured the VP to decline to certify the votes of certain states he lost. Each of these could have been successful but for upstanding civil servants (including the VP) that didn’t want our 250 year old democracy’s blood on their hands.
I mean an actual story, not some handwavy claim about what he tried to do. A story, characterized by one plausible event after another, which ends with God Emperor Trump.
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@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
@Horace said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
I’ve always considered her positively dangerous. That’s not hyperbole.
Did you ever reach a conclusion about whether you would have preferred her to Trump, or do you refuse to cognitively go there? I understand you'd have voted third party in such an election, but a preference could still exist.
Her easily, in that her errors are reversible. Once democracy is ended it’s hard to come back from that. We can reverse bad regulations though.
Methinks you give The Don far too much credit.
Perhaps next time...
@Jolly said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
@Horace said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
I’ve always considered her positively dangerous. That’s not hyperbole.
Did you ever reach a conclusion about whether you would have preferred her to Trump, or do you refuse to cognitively go there? I understand you'd have voted third party in such an election, but a preference could still exist.
Her easily, in that her errors are reversible. Once democracy is ended it’s hard to come back from that. We can reverse bad regulations though.
Methinks you give The Don far too much credit.
One of the eternal contradictions of the TDS mind is that Trump is considered in some ways all-powerful, and in others, a total loser who's incapable of accomplishing anything.
I am sure both sides of the culture wars can agree that we don't want a system so brittle that a bad actor president can choose to make himself (or herself, or blerself) God Emperor by jumping through a couple plausible hoops here and there. Odd that we don't discuss ways to shore up the system against bad actors, but rather, only concentrate on perpetuating hate against a certain bad actor and the party that hosted him.
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You weren’t paying attention, much of this was done openly. He tried to get local officials to decline to certify the vote in heavily Biden leaning districts (MI). He famously tried to get the GA Secretary of State to “find” 11k votes with an implied (or maybe explicit, I don’t remember) threat if he should fail. His legal team tried to get state legislatures to send in a competing slate of electors, in certain states he lost, and he pressured the VP to decline to certify the votes of certain states he lost. Each of these could have been successful but for upstanding civil servants (including the VP) that didn’t want our 250 year old democracy’s blood on their hands.
It is a very real concern that many of these roles have since been filled by cult members who would show no such restraint.
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
You weren’t paying attention, much of this was done openly. He tried to get local officials to decline to certify the vote in heavily Biden leaning districts (MI). He famously tried to get the GA Secretary of State to “find” 11k votes with an implied (or maybe explicit, I don’t remember) threat if he should fail. His legal team tried to get state legislatures to send in a competing slate of electors, in certain states he lost, and he pressured the VP to decline to certify the votes of certain states he lost. Each of these could have been successful but for upstanding civil servants (including the VP) that didn’t want our 250 year old democracy’s blood on their hands.
It is a very real concern that many of these roles have since been filled by cult members who would show no such restraint.
But none of that was illegal. Outside of the box, somewhat sleazy, but still legal.
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@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
You weren’t paying attention, much of this was done openly. He tried to get local officials to decline to certify the vote in heavily Biden leaning districts (MI). He famously tried to get the GA Secretary of State to “find” 11k votes with an implied (or maybe explicit, I don’t remember) threat if he should fail. His legal team tried to get state legislatures to send in a competing slate of electors, in certain states he lost, and he pressured the VP to decline to certify the votes of certain states he lost. Each of these could have been successful but for upstanding civil servants (including the VP) that didn’t want our 250 year old democracy’s blood on their hands.
It is a very real concern that many of these roles have since been filled by cult members who would show no such restraint.
But none of that was illegal. Outside of the box, somewhat sleazy, but still legal.
@Jolly said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
You weren’t paying attention, much of this was done openly. He tried to get local officials to decline to certify the vote in heavily Biden leaning districts (MI). He famously tried to get the GA Secretary of State to “find” 11k votes with an implied (or maybe explicit, I don’t remember) threat if he should fail. His legal team tried to get state legislatures to send in a competing slate of electors, in certain states he lost, and he pressured the VP to decline to certify the votes of certain states he lost. Each of these could have been successful but for upstanding civil servants (including the VP) that didn’t want our 250 year old democracy’s blood on their hands.
It is a very real concern that many of these roles have since been filled by cult members who would show no such restraint.
But none of that was illegal. Outside of the box, somewhat sleazy, but still legal.
Threatening Raffensperger was probably illegal, and may still result in an indictment. Possibly VP pence too. But to the original point, any of them, should they happen, will functionally end our democracy.
Really. How much of a democracy would it be if VP Harris could pick and choose which states to certify? If individual non-elected partisans could decertify counties that vote for the other guy?
"You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
-Cormac McCarthy -
@Jolly said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
You weren’t paying attention, much of this was done openly. He tried to get local officials to decline to certify the vote in heavily Biden leaning districts (MI). He famously tried to get the GA Secretary of State to “find” 11k votes with an implied (or maybe explicit, I don’t remember) threat if he should fail. His legal team tried to get state legislatures to send in a competing slate of electors, in certain states he lost, and he pressured the VP to decline to certify the votes of certain states he lost. Each of these could have been successful but for upstanding civil servants (including the VP) that didn’t want our 250 year old democracy’s blood on their hands.
It is a very real concern that many of these roles have since been filled by cult members who would show no such restraint.
But none of that was illegal. Outside of the box, somewhat sleazy, but still legal.
Threatening Raffensperger was probably illegal, and may still result in an indictment. Possibly VP pence too. But to the original point, any of them, should they happen, will functionally end our democracy.
Really. How much of a democracy would it be if VP Harris could pick and choose which states to certify? If individual non-elected partisans could decertify counties that vote for the other guy?
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
Really. How much of a democracy would it be if VP Harris could pick and choose which states to certify? If individual non-elected partisans could decertify counties that vote for the other guy?
I'm sure we're all concerned about existing loopholes, capable of overturning results of elections, only not exploited because of the honor system. So let's close those loopholes.
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There is a bipartisan bill to clean up the final count in congress.
The states probably have to clean up their own, and several state governments, rather than express a desire to fix it, are salivating over the new “found” power. The QAnon candidate for PA has more or less promised to pre-steal the election in 2024.
"You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
-Cormac McCarthy -
@Jolly said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
You weren’t paying attention, much of this was done openly. He tried to get local officials to decline to certify the vote in heavily Biden leaning districts (MI). He famously tried to get the GA Secretary of State to “find” 11k votes with an implied (or maybe explicit, I don’t remember) threat if he should fail. His legal team tried to get state legislatures to send in a competing slate of electors, in certain states he lost, and he pressured the VP to decline to certify the votes of certain states he lost. Each of these could have been successful but for upstanding civil servants (including the VP) that didn’t want our 250 year old democracy’s blood on their hands.
It is a very real concern that many of these roles have since been filled by cult members who would show no such restraint.
But none of that was illegal. Outside of the box, somewhat sleazy, but still legal.
Threatening Raffensperger was probably illegal, and may still result in an indictment. Possibly VP pence too. But to the original point, any of them, should they happen, will functionally end our democracy.
Really. How much of a democracy would it be if VP Harris could pick and choose which states to certify? If individual non-elected partisans could decertify counties that vote for the other guy?
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
@Jolly said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
You weren’t paying attention, much of this was done openly. He tried to get local officials to decline to certify the vote in heavily Biden leaning districts (MI). He famously tried to get the GA Secretary of State to “find” 11k votes with an implied (or maybe explicit, I don’t remember) threat if he should fail. His legal team tried to get state legislatures to send in a competing slate of electors, in certain states he lost, and he pressured the VP to decline to certify the votes of certain states he lost. Each of these could have been successful but for upstanding civil servants (including the VP) that didn’t want our 250 year old democracy’s blood on their hands.
It is a very real concern that many of these roles have since been filled by cult members who would show no such restraint.
But none of that was illegal. Outside of the box, somewhat sleazy, but still legal.
Threatening Raffensperger was probably illegal, and may still result in an indictment. Possibly VP pence too. But to the original point, any of them, should they happen, will functionally end our democracy.
Really. How much of a democracy would it be if VP Harris could pick and choose which states to certify? If individual non-elected partisans could decertify counties that vote for the other guy?
Hyperbole.
'Tis no whiff of grapeshot in any of that.
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There is a bipartisan bill to clean up the final count in congress.
The states probably have to clean up their own, and several state governments, rather than express a desire to fix it, are salivating over the new “found” power. The QAnon candidate for PA has more or less promised to pre-steal the election in 2024.
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
There is a bipartisan bill to clean up the final count in congress.
The states probably have to clean up their own, and several state governments, rather than express a desire to fix it, are salivating over the new “found” power.
IIRC, Wisconsin did so this week.
Good.
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It’s hard to know what your specific claim is given your colorful metaphor.
You mean none of them could happen? There was only the character and patriotism of a few people that stopped it from happening in 2020. Both of which are being purged from the Trump party.
You mean they wouldn’t put an end to democracy in practice? Of course any of those examples would. You give me the power to decide which texas, PA, and FL country results are legit and I’ll deliver the President I want.
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It’s hard to know what your specific claim is given your colorful metaphor.
You mean none of them could happen? There was only the character and patriotism of a few people that stopped it from happening in 2020. Both of which are being purged from the Trump party.
You mean they wouldn’t put an end to democracy in practice? Of course any of those examples would. You give me the power to decide which texas, PA, and FL country results are legit and I’ll deliver the President I want.
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
It’s hard to know what your specific claim is given your colorful metaphor.
You mean none of them could happen? There was only the character and patriotism of a few people that stopped it from happening in 2020. Both of which are being purged from the Trump party.
You mean they wouldn’t put an end to democracy in practice? Of course any of those examples would. You give me the power to decide which texas, PA, and FL country results are legit and I’ll deliver the President I want.
You mean like the Dems flipped the Rove counties?
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@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
It’s hard to know what your specific claim is given your colorful metaphor.
You mean none of them could happen? There was only the character and patriotism of a few people that stopped it from happening in 2020. Both of which are being purged from the Trump party.
You mean they wouldn’t put an end to democracy in practice? Of course any of those examples would. You give me the power to decide which texas, PA, and FL country results are legit and I’ll deliver the President I want.
You mean like the Dems flipped the Rove counties?
@Jolly said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
It’s hard to know what your specific claim is given your colorful metaphor.
You mean none of them could happen? There was only the character and patriotism of a few people that stopped it from happening in 2020. Both of which are being purged from the Trump party.
You mean they wouldn’t put an end to democracy in practice? Of course any of those examples would. You give me the power to decide which texas, PA, and FL country results are legit and I’ll deliver the President I want.
You mean like the Dems flipped the Rove counties?
I don’t understand your reference.
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@Jolly said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
It’s hard to know what your specific claim is given your colorful metaphor.
You mean none of them could happen? There was only the character and patriotism of a few people that stopped it from happening in 2020. Both of which are being purged from the Trump party.
You mean they wouldn’t put an end to democracy in practice? Of course any of those examples would. You give me the power to decide which texas, PA, and FL country results are legit and I’ll deliver the President I want.
You mean like the Dems flipped the Rove counties?
I don’t understand your reference.
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
@Jolly said in She who would be president...:
@jon-nyc said in She who would be president...:
It’s hard to know what your specific claim is given your colorful metaphor.
You mean none of them could happen? There was only the character and patriotism of a few people that stopped it from happening in 2020. Both of which are being purged from the Trump party.
You mean they wouldn’t put an end to democracy in practice? Of course any of those examples would. You give me the power to decide which texas, PA, and FL country results are legit and I’ll deliver the President I want.
You mean like the Dems flipped the Rove counties?
I don’t understand your reference.
I'm too lazy to look them up, but Rove has a short list of counties that are highly predictive of who wins the Presidential race. When he called it a night on the night of the election, Trump had won all but two of them. IIRC, it's the first time in the last half-century or so that has happened, where the winner of those counties was not elected President..
It's just another one of those things which just didn't quite pass the sniff test. There were several others.
Which is why, if the Dems had any sense, they would bally-hoo election reform more than the GOP, instead of trying to let illegals vote. Clouded elections are no good for anybody.
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J Jolly referenced this topic on
