Not a riot
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My $0.02 about all of it—which everyone is free to criticize of course: the protests are primarily about BLM, which I think isn't even close to factual. Systemic racism is a problem coming from the odd dumbshit, not "the police," "the system," "white people" or whatever.
Gladwell's "Talking to Strangers" is about the best diagnosis of the problem I've come across. You've got some communities where the police are either in an impossible position, or where the town council is more impressed by drug and gun roundups than they are lower crime stats. So there's a lot of strung-out, overworked, underfunded police forces employing Kansas City-style "look beyond the ticket" enforcement. Which is a great way to destroy relations with the local community. Meanwhile, when that same community actually needs the police, they're nowhere to be found, because again, they're overworked and underfunded.
Oh and those poor communities are almost always minority communities, because poor white communities have an equally shitty but different dynamic. (But I think that's a whole other thing.)
Black guy gets 8 tickets for sitting in his car, but when his cousin is shot, no police in sight. And the nicer, whiter communities seldom have these stories. On the surface, how in the hell can you not call that systemic racism? It isn't, but I can certainly understand the conclusion. And then sure, yeah, you have cops who say "well you know, all the guys who ever shot at me were black, so..." They might not be wrong but again, wrong conclusion to draw. I think it's poverty and income inequality. There's no sociological phenomenon that has a higher correlation than income inequality and violent crime. None. It's a thing. And not only has no one ever solved it, the Pareto distribution continues to skew more extreme.
I may be wrong about all of it. But I refuse to believe poor, inner city communities are not having a bad time of it, whatever the reason. So yeah, they've got some shit to protest about. And a ton of them are trying to be lawful about it.
This post is deleted! -
My $0.02 about all of it—which everyone is free to criticize of course: the protests are primarily about BLM, which I think isn't even close to factual. Systemic racism is a problem coming from the odd dumbshit, not "the police," "the system," "white people" or whatever.
Gladwell's "Talking to Strangers" is about the best diagnosis of the problem I've come across. You've got some communities where the police are either in an impossible position, or where the town council is more impressed by drug and gun roundups than they are lower crime stats. So there's a lot of strung-out, overworked, underfunded police forces employing Kansas City-style "look beyond the ticket" enforcement. Which is a great way to destroy relations with the local community. Meanwhile, when that same community actually needs the police, they're nowhere to be found, because again, they're overworked and underfunded.
Oh and those poor communities are almost always minority communities, because poor white communities have an equally shitty but different dynamic. (But I think that's a whole other thing.)
Black guy gets 8 tickets for sitting in his car, but when his cousin is shot, no police in sight. And the nicer, whiter communities seldom have these stories. On the surface, how in the hell can you not call that systemic racism? It isn't, but I can certainly understand the conclusion. And then sure, yeah, you have cops who say "well you know, all the guys who ever shot at me were black, so..." They might not be wrong but again, wrong conclusion to draw. I think it's poverty and income inequality. There's no sociological phenomenon that has a higher correlation than income inequality and violent crime. None. It's a thing. And not only has no one ever solved it, the Pareto distribution continues to skew more extreme.
I may be wrong about all of it. But I refuse to believe poor, inner city communities are not having a bad time of it, whatever the reason. So yeah, they've got some shit to protest about. And a ton of them are trying to be lawful about it.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
My $0.02 about all of it—which everyone is free to criticize of course: the protests are primarily about BLM, which I think isn't even close to factual. Systemic racism is a problem coming from the odd dumbshit, not "the police," "the system," "white people" or whatever.
Gladwell's "Talking to Strangers" is about the best diagnosis of the problem I've come across. You've got some communities where the police are either in an impossible position, or where the town council is more impressed by drug and gun roundups than they are lower crime stats. So there's a lot of strung-out, overworked, underfunded police forces employing Kansas City-style "look beyond the ticket" enforcement. Which is a great way to destroy relations with the local community. Meanwhile, when that same community actually needs the police, they're nowhere to be found, because again, they're overworked and underfunded.
Oh and those poor communities are almost always minority communities, because poor white communities have an equally shitty but different dynamic. (But I think that's a whole other thing.)
Black guy gets 8 tickets for sitting in his car, but when his cousin is shot, no police in sight. And the nicer, whiter communities seldom have these stories. On the surface, how in the hell can you not call that systemic racism? It isn't, but I can certainly understand the conclusion. And then sure, yeah, you have cops who say "well you know, all the guys who ever shot at me were black, so..." They might not be wrong but again, wrong conclusion to draw. I think it's poverty and income inequality. There's no sociological phenomenon that has a higher correlation than income inequality and violent crime. None. It's a thing. And not only has no one ever solved it, the Pareto distribution continues to skew more extreme.
I may be wrong about all of it. But I refuse to believe poor, inner city communities are not having a bad time of it, whatever the reason. So yeah, they've got some shit to protest about. And a ton of them are trying to be lawful about it.
I nominate this Post of the Day. I concur. Thanks AL.
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Weren't there twice as many whites as blacks killed by police last year?
Do not cracker lives matter?
Help! I'm being oppressed!
@Jolly said in Not a riot:
Weren't there twice as many whites as blacks killed by police last year?
Do not cracker lives matter?
Help! I'm being oppressed!
Whites outnumber blacks 7 to 1.
On a per capita basis, blacks are over 3x more likely to be killed by police.
You can complain about being oppressed when the whites are more likely to be killed by police than blacks on a per capita basis.
Until then, bitching about it just shows that you’re a whiny little snowflake who is bad at math. -
@Jolly said in Not a riot:
Weren't there twice as many whites as blacks killed by police last year?
Do not cracker lives matter?
Help! I'm being oppressed!
Whites outnumber blacks 7 to 1.
On a per capita basis, blacks are over 3x more likely to be killed by police.
You can complain about being oppressed when the whites are more likely to be killed by police than blacks on a per capita basis.
Until then, bitching about it just shows that you’re a whiny little snowflake who is bad at math.@Axtremus said in Not a riot:
@Jolly said in Not a riot:
Weren't there twice as many whites as blacks killed by police last year?
Do not cracker lives matter?
Help! I'm being oppressed!
Whites outnumber blacks 7 to 1.
On a per capita basis, blacks are over 3x more likely to be killed by police.
You can complain about being oppressed when the whites are more likely to be killed by police than blacks on a per capita basis.
Until then, bitching about it just shows that you’re a whiny little snowflake who is bad at math.No, you're being dishonest, because I think you're smarter than that, Ax. The folk who were "good at math" would want to normalize not to the number of people but to the amount of police worthy action generated by the people.
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@Axtremus said in Not a riot:
@Jolly said in Not a riot:
Weren't there twice as many whites as blacks killed by police last year?
Do not cracker lives matter?
Help! I'm being oppressed!
Whites outnumber blacks 7 to 1.
On a per capita basis, blacks are over 3x more likely to be killed by police.
You can complain about being oppressed when the whites are more likely to be killed by police than blacks on a per capita basis.
Until then, bitching about it just shows that you’re a whiny little snowflake who is bad at math.No, you're being dishonest, because I think you're smarter than that, Ax. The folk who were "good at math" would want to normalize not to the number of people but to the amount of police worthy action generated by the people.
@Horace said in Not a riot:
@Axtremus said in Not a riot:
@Jolly said in Not a riot:
Weren't there twice as many whites as blacks killed by police last year?
Do not cracker lives matter?
Help! I'm being oppressed!
Whites outnumber blacks 7 to 1.
On a per capita basis, blacks are over 3x more likely to be killed by police.
You can complain about being oppressed when the whites are more likely to be killed by police than blacks on a per capita basis.
Until then, bitching about it just shows that you’re a whiny little snowflake who is bad at math.No, you're being dishonest, because I think you're smarter than that, Ax. The folk who were "good at math" would want to normalize not to the number of people but to the amount of police worthy action generated by the people.
You're the dishonest one here because your proposed method assumes that the generation of police worthy action is color neutral. I expect you to be smarter than that.
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@Jolly said in Not a riot:
Weren't there twice as many whites as blacks killed by police last year?
Do not cracker lives matter?
Help! I'm being oppressed!
Whites outnumber blacks 7 to 1.
On a per capita basis, blacks are over 3x more likely to be killed by police.
You can complain about being oppressed when the whites are more likely to be killed by police than blacks on a per capita basis.
Until then, bitching about it just shows that you’re a whiny little snowflake who is bad at math.@Axtremus said in Not a riot:
@Jolly said in Not a riot:
Weren't there twice as many whites as blacks killed by police last year?
Do not cracker lives matter?
Help! I'm being oppressed!
Whites outnumber blacks 7 to 1.
On a per capita basis, blacks are over 3x more likely to be killed by police.
You can complain about being oppressed when the whites are more likely to be killed by police than blacks on a per capita basis.
Until then, bitching about it just shows that you’re a whiny little snowflake who is bad at math.I don't like to judge based on skin color.
But since you brought it up, what is the skin color for people who commit crimes?
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@Jolly said in Not a riot:
Weren't there twice as many whites as blacks killed by police last year?
Do not cracker lives matter?
Help! I'm being oppressed!
Whites outnumber blacks 7 to 1.
On a per capita basis, blacks are over 3x more likely to be killed by police.
You can complain about being oppressed when the whites are more likely to be killed by police than blacks on a per capita basis.
Until then, bitching about it just shows that you’re a whiny little snowflake who is bad at math.@Axtremus said in Not a riot:
@Jolly said in Not a riot:
Weren't there twice as many whites as blacks killed by police last year?
Do not cracker lives matter?
Help! I'm being oppressed!
Whites outnumber blacks 7 to 1.
On a per capita basis, blacks are over 3x more likely to be killed by police.
You can complain about being oppressed when the whites are more likely to be killed by police than blacks on a per capita basis.
Until then, bitching about it just shows that you’re a whiny little snowflake who is bad at math.You're the one who can't do the math. Blacks account for 13% of the population, but account for 55% of the violent crime. 97% of the violent crimes they commit are against other blacks. More whites are killed by police than blacks, even though while whites account for (according to your own figures, which are wrong) 7 times the number of people, only account for 40% of the violent crimes. Trying to draw conclusions from per capita data doesn't tell anyone a damned thing.
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@Horace said in Not a riot:
@Axtremus said in Not a riot:
@Jolly said in Not a riot:
Weren't there twice as many whites as blacks killed by police last year?
Do not cracker lives matter?
Help! I'm being oppressed!
Whites outnumber blacks 7 to 1.
On a per capita basis, blacks are over 3x more likely to be killed by police.
You can complain about being oppressed when the whites are more likely to be killed by police than blacks on a per capita basis.
Until then, bitching about it just shows that you’re a whiny little snowflake who is bad at math.No, you're being dishonest, because I think you're smarter than that, Ax. The folk who were "good at math" would want to normalize not to the number of people but to the amount of police worthy action generated by the people.
You're the dishonest one here because your proposed method assumes that the generation of police worthy action is color neutral. I expect you to be smarter than that.
@Axtremus said in Not a riot:
@Horace said in Not a riot:
@Axtremus said in Not a riot:
@Jolly said in Not a riot:
Weren't there twice as many whites as blacks killed by police last year?
Do not cracker lives matter?
Help! I'm being oppressed!
Whites outnumber blacks 7 to 1.
On a per capita basis, blacks are over 3x more likely to be killed by police.
You can complain about being oppressed when the whites are more likely to be killed by police than blacks on a per capita basis.
Until then, bitching about it just shows that you’re a whiny little snowflake who is bad at math.No, you're being dishonest, because I think you're smarter than that, Ax. The folk who were "good at math" would want to normalize not to the number of people but to the amount of police worthy action generated by the people.
You're the dishonest one here because your proposed method assumes that the generation of police worthy action is color neutral. I expect you to be smarter than that.
There's always the theory that police are more likely to ignore white crime, say. But that theory falls apart when you look at murders, since they can't really be ignored (what with the dead body and all). The differential rates of murder between blacks and every other ethnic group are of a piece with the differential rates in other violent crime statistics.
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@Horace said in Not a riot:
@Axtremus said in Not a riot:
@Jolly said in Not a riot:
Weren't there twice as many whites as blacks killed by police last year?
Do not cracker lives matter?
Help! I'm being oppressed!
Whites outnumber blacks 7 to 1.
On a per capita basis, blacks are over 3x more likely to be killed by police.
You can complain about being oppressed when the whites are more likely to be killed by police than blacks on a per capita basis.
Until then, bitching about it just shows that you’re a whiny little snowflake who is bad at math.No, you're being dishonest, because I think you're smarter than that, Ax. The folk who were "good at math" would want to normalize not to the number of people but to the amount of police worthy action generated by the people.
You're the dishonest one here because your proposed method assumes that the generation of police worthy action is color neutral. I expect you to be smarter than that.
@Axtremus said in Not a riot:
@Horace said in Not a riot:
@Axtremus said in Not a riot:
@Jolly said in Not a riot:
Weren't there twice as many whites as blacks killed by police last year?
Do not cracker lives matter?
Help! I'm being oppressed!
Whites outnumber blacks 7 to 1.
On a per capita basis, blacks are over 3x more likely to be killed by police.
You can complain about being oppressed when the whites are more likely to be killed by police than blacks on a per capita basis.
Until then, bitching about it just shows that you’re a whiny little snowflake who is bad at math.No, you're being dishonest, because I think you're smarter than that, Ax. The folk who were "good at math" would want to normalize not to the number of people but to the amount of police worthy action generated by the people.
You're the dishonest one here because your proposed method assumes that the generation of police worthy action is color neutral. I expect you to be smarter than that.
I used to go through the gates of Angola about twice a month. Blacks constitute 33% of Louisiana's population, but they make up 76% of the prison's population.
The majority will die there.
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@Larry said in Not a riot:
Except for one little detail... they dont.
My reply was in support of your post, btw.
@89th said in Not a riot:
@Larry said in Not a riot:
Except for one little detail... they dont.
My reply was in support of your post, btw.
Thanks. I can never figure out what you're trying to say.
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@89th made perfect sense to me.
Another distinction worth considering is how many police officers are killed by African American males vs Caucasian, Hispanic, Asian, etc...
I’m not projecting, I don’t know the answer, but could it be that officers feel more at risk by African Americans and do the numbers support that concern?
The Brad
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@Mik that’s my biggest frustration with this whole topic. You have to be so sensitive when discussing.
I’m completely open to the possibility that I’m wrong and having my mind changed. But you can’t even question certain axioms.
I had a hilarious convo with a coworker yesterday where we slowly confirmed for a few mins that the other wasn’t overly-woke. Then had a decent convo after.
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@89th made perfect sense to me.
Another distinction worth considering is how many police officers are killed by African American males vs Caucasian, Hispanic, Asian, etc...
I’m not projecting, I don’t know the answer, but could it be that officers feel more at risk by African Americans and do the numbers support that concern?
@LuFins-Dad said in Not a riot:
I’m not projecting, I don’t know the answer, but could it be that officers feel more at risk by African Americans and do the numbers support that concern?
So, here are the stats:
- These are "Law Enforcement Officers Feloniously Killed"
- Black line = black people
- Green line = white people
- Most killings were from either a black or white person
- TOP CHART: Raw numbers by year, in most years, white people kill cops more.
- BOTTOM CHART: If you account that black people are 13.1% of the population and white people are 49.7% of the population, proportion to the respective race, in all years black people kill more cops.
In other words, to answer your question, an officer feels more at risk by black citizens as they (proportional to their race) are 2.7x more likely to kill a cop.
I can already hear @Aqua-Letifer fuming over the simplification of these numbers, but I wanted to answer @LuFins-Dad 's question.
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@LuFins-Dad said in Not a riot:
I’m not projecting, I don’t know the answer, but could it be that officers feel more at risk by African Americans and do the numbers support that concern?
So, here are the stats:
- These are "Law Enforcement Officers Feloniously Killed"
- Black line = black people
- Green line = white people
- Most killings were from either a black or white person
- TOP CHART: Raw numbers by year, in most years, white people kill cops more.
- BOTTOM CHART: If you account that black people are 13.1% of the population and white people are 49.7% of the population, proportion to the respective race, in all years black people kill more cops.
In other words, to answer your question, an officer feels more at risk by black citizens as they (proportional to their race) are 2.7x more likely to kill a cop.
I can already hear @Aqua-Letifer fuming over the simplification of these numbers, but I wanted to answer @LuFins-Dad 's question.
@89th said in Not a riot:
In other words, to answer your question, an officer feels more at risk by black citizens as they (proportional to their race) are 2.7x more likely to kill a cop.
Blacks have killed more cops because a great many of them live in neighborhoods in which more cops are killed, not because melanin levels make you enjoy killing cops 2.7 times as much.
Also, that's historical data, not a future projection. Those numbers don't mean that blacks are 2.7 times more likely to kill a police officer, they mean that police officers have been killed by blacks 2.7 times more often than whites. Those two aren't the same.
Please love yourself.
