The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread
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@Renauda said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
Can anyone tell me what produced commodities or services support or sustain the market value of Bitcoin/cryptocurrency?
Same answer for gold
@89th said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
@Renauda said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
Can anyone tell me what produced commodities or services support or sustain the market value of Bitcoin/cryptocurrency?
Same answer for gold
Or any collectible.
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That's right, Bitcoin is the most gold-like (there's no consortium or founding group pushing it, power is too disperse to change the protocol, etc.). To the extent that there's demand for "digital gold", Bitcoin should fill that niche.
Now - the covid stimulus really pumped up the price of Bitcoin. I don't think we'll have anything like that soon. Will mainstream investors lose interest if this thing doesn't show signs of going back to the moon in the next 1-3 years? TBD.
The rest of the crypto space? I see no practical use cases.
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@jon-nyc said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
Rarely more obvious the precarious extrapolation of “most recent transaction price” to “trade value of all of them”.
@Horace said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
@jon-nyc said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
Rarely more obvious the precarious extrapolation of “most recent transaction price” to “trade value of all of them”.
Fair - if the market had to liquidate by tomorrow, it would liquidate for a lot less than $1T. But the trading price is still the best signal of value.
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@Horace said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
@jon-nyc said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
Rarely more obvious the precarious extrapolation of “most recent transaction price” to “trade value of all of them”.
Fair - if the market had to liquidate by tomorrow, it would liquidate for a lot less than $1T. But the trading price is still the best signal of value.
@xenon said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
@Horace said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
@jon-nyc said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
Rarely more obvious the precarious extrapolation of “most recent transaction price” to “trade value of all of them”.
Fair - if the market had to liquidate by tomorrow, it would liquidate for a lot less than $1T. But the trading price is still the best signal of value.
Right but the signal is stronger or weaker depending on how many dollars are lined up behind the most recent transaction, waiting for the market price to nudge just a little. If you have a only a handful of buyers and sellers dictating the most recent transactions, and no intrinsic value to back anything up, the most recent transaction price is built on sand.
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I have zero money in crypto but I agree that Bitcoin is going to be a thing forever. Not so much the rest of them.
@Horace said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
I have zero money in crypto but I agree that Bitcoin is going to be a thing forever. Not so much the rest of them.
Ethereum will also stay around, IMO. Where Bitcoin is mainly a decentralized financial tool, Ethereum is more of a network, can be used for apps, transactions, NFTs, and uses less energy than Bitcoin. Besides those 2 coins... who knows.
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There was an interesting article recently on the "search" to find who was the guy that invented BitCoin.
Nobody really knows.
I did not realize that there is a maximum number of bitcoins that will be made. I think the number is 21 million. They believe that the inventor holds about 1 million of these.
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Can anyone tell me what produced commodities or services support or sustain the market value of Bitcoin/cryptocurrency?
@Renauda said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
Can anyone tell me what produced commodities or services support or sustain the market value of Bitcoin/cryptocurrency?
Helium is working to create a decentralized telecom network of transmitters which are also cryptominers.
The owner puts the unit in their window, links with others in the neighborhood, create a network of cellular communications, earn crypto and create crypto, and then profit when the network is used in replacement of cell towers. So the game plan is to replace Verizon TMob ATT etc cell towers with a completely decentralized operator owned network for internet, streaming, voip, etc.
That to me makes sense as it produces real and marketable value.
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@Renauda said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
Can anyone tell me what produced commodities or services support or sustain the market value of Bitcoin/cryptocurrency?
Helium is working to create a decentralized telecom network of transmitters which are also cryptominers.
The owner puts the unit in their window, links with others in the neighborhood, create a network of cellular communications, earn crypto and create crypto, and then profit when the network is used in replacement of cell towers. So the game plan is to replace Verizon TMob ATT etc cell towers with a completely decentralized operator owned network for internet, streaming, voip, etc.
That to me makes sense as it produces real and marketable value.
@Ivorythumper said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
@Renauda said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
Can anyone tell me what produced commodities or services support or sustain the market value of Bitcoin/cryptocurrency?
Helium is working to create a decentralized telecom network of transmitters which are also cryptominers.
The owner puts the unit in their window, links with others in the neighborhood, create a network of cellular communications, earn crypto and create crypto, and then profit when the network is used in replacement of cell towers. So the game plan is to replace Verizon TMob ATT etc cell towers with a completely decentralized operator owned network for internet, streaming, voip, etc.
That to me makes sense as it produces real and marketable value.
The most valuable asset a telco has is wireless spectrum. There’s nothing stopping people from setting up nodes on public frequencies today. I’m not sure what value the crypto angle brings.
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There was an interesting article recently on the "search" to find who was the guy that invented BitCoin.
Nobody really knows.
I did not realize that there is a maximum number of bitcoins that will be made. I think the number is 21 million. They believe that the inventor holds about 1 million of these.
@taiwan_girl said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
There was an interesting article recently on the "search" to find who was the guy that invented BitCoin.
Nobody really knows.
I did not realize that there is a maximum number of bitcoins that will be made. I think the number is 21 million. They believe that the inventor holds about 1 million of these.
Adam Back, according to a convincing documentary I saw.
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@Ivorythumper said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
@Renauda said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
Can anyone tell me what produced commodities or services support or sustain the market value of Bitcoin/cryptocurrency?
Helium is working to create a decentralized telecom network of transmitters which are also cryptominers.
The owner puts the unit in their window, links with others in the neighborhood, create a network of cellular communications, earn crypto and create crypto, and then profit when the network is used in replacement of cell towers. So the game plan is to replace Verizon TMob ATT etc cell towers with a completely decentralized operator owned network for internet, streaming, voip, etc.
That to me makes sense as it produces real and marketable value.
The most valuable asset a telco has is wireless spectrum. There’s nothing stopping people from setting up nodes on public frequencies today. I’m not sure what value the crypto angle brings.
@xenon said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
@Ivorythumper said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
@Renauda said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
Can anyone tell me what produced commodities or services support or sustain the market value of Bitcoin/cryptocurrency?
Helium is working to create a decentralized telecom network of transmitters which are also cryptominers.
The owner puts the unit in their window, links with others in the neighborhood, create a network of cellular communications, earn crypto and create crypto, and then profit when the network is used in replacement of cell towers. So the game plan is to replace Verizon TMob ATT etc cell towers with a completely decentralized operator owned network for internet, streaming, voip, etc.
That to me makes sense as it produces real and marketable value.
The most valuable asset a telco has is wireless spectrum. There’s nothing stopping people from setting up nodes on public frequencies today. I’m not sure what value the crypto angle brings.
As I understand it, the crypto part simultaneously sets up a network of communication devices to replace cell towers and computers to solve for and generate crypto, which are earned by the owners of the devices.
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I looked into it a bit more. It's a pretty great idea. The value and interest here though seems to come from wanting to get access to a specific token that people hope will be worth more in the future than it is today.
Helium has very tight control on the production of that token - they won't release private keys unless you pay a certain amount of money and buy their own proprietary hardware. There is actually no decentralization here - you must go through Helium Co. to participate in this idea. (Unlike truly decentralized crypto projects like Bitcoin).
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The fact that "nobody understands crypto" is a huge point in its favor. It's still magic black box stuff. I wonder if it would retain its value if everybody realized it is a glorified collectible. 21 million identical glorified collectibles are a lot of identical glorified collectibles.
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I looked into it a bit more. It's a pretty great idea. The value and interest here though seems to come from wanting to get access to a specific token that people hope will be worth more in the future than it is today.
Helium has very tight control on the production of that token - they won't release private keys unless you pay a certain amount of money and buy their own proprietary hardware. There is actually no decentralization here - you must go through Helium Co. to participate in this idea. (Unlike truly decentralized crypto projects like Bitcoin).
@xenon yes, you’re certainly right about the tight control. It’s kinda like a stock in that regard— investing in a company that produces something but doing it in their own currency, which happens to be crypto.
I just can’t figure out how to buy into the system as (last I looked) they only took crypto.
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I think there’s a big risk of liquidation among over-leveraged firms (see: 3 AC). They may take other players like blockfi and tether down with them.
That’s all to say, if I had to bet, I’d guess we’re not at the bottom yet.
I also think the return to growth will be slow. We likely won’t see low rates for a long time. I do think Bitcoin can be a gold-like asset - but if it’s flat for several years, it’ll lose the momentum it had in the mainstream right now.
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Bought more today. Focused on bit and eth. Great discounts if you are confident it will be here in 10 or 20 years, and worth much more by then.
@89th said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
Bought more today. Focused on bit and eth. Great discounts if you are confident it will be here in 10 or 20 years, and worth much more by then.
Sorry, 89, but I had to laugh a bit about the comment I put in bold. I guess that applies to a lot of things.
Alternate planet: Year 1995: 89Key Clone - Speaking about Blockbuster company. "Great discounts if you are confident it will be here in 10 or 20 years, and worth much more by then."
On another item, there was a recent article about how "mining" for bitcoin has slowed down quite a bit.
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Allowing cryptocurrency firms to directly tap into the Federal Reserve system?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/07/03/crypto-banks-risk-lummis/
"... part of a sweeping proposal to regulate the crypto industry that Sens. Cynthia M. Lummis (R-Wyo.) and Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) introduced in June — would force the Federal Reserve to grant so-called master accounts to certain crypto firms seeking them from the central bank. The accounts give holders access to the Fed’s payment system, allowing them to settle transactions for clients without involving a separate bank."
