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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
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  3. Texas shooting.

Texas shooting.

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  • George KG George K

    @89th said in Texas shooting.:

    School shootings are incredibly rare, despite what the media might make society believe.

    On Faceypage someone posted that the US has had more than 200 school shootings. That's patently false, of course, and the definition of "school shooting" includes any shooting in the vicinity of the school, including gang violence.

    Per capita I think countries like Norway and France have substantially higher rates of mass shooting fatalities.

    Not aware of that. Got a source?

    Aqua LetiferA Offline
    Aqua LetiferA Offline
    Aqua Letifer
    wrote on last edited by
    #117

    Per capita I think countries like Norway and France have substantially higher rates of mass shooting fatalities.

    Not aware of that. Got a source?

    This is the horseshit that's probably being trotted out here.
    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/mass-shootings-by-country

    Does the United States have more mass shootings than other countries? It depends on the data.

    Exactly how mass shootings in the U.S. compare to those in other countries is a highly disputed subject. In a widely publicized study originally released in 2015, the pro-gun nonprofit Crime Prevention Research Center (CPRC) compared the annual number of mass shooting deaths per million people in the U.S. to that of Canada and several European countries from 2009 to 2015. The result? Norway led the world with 1.88 deaths per million, followed by Serbia, France, and Macedonia. Where did the U.S. rank? 11th place.
    As eye-opening as the CRPC study was, many statisticians believe the reason the results seem so counterintuitive is that they’re incorrect. One of the more detailed analyses appeared on the fact-checking website snopes.com and concluded that the CRPC report used “inappropriate statistical methods” which led to misleading results.

    According to the snopes analysis, one of those inappropriate methods was the leaving out of the many European countries that had not experienced a single mass shooting between 2009-2015. This data would not have changed the position of the U.S. on the list, but its absence could lead a reader to believe—incorrectly—that the U.S. experienced fewer mass shooting fatalities per capita than all but a handful of countries in Europe. A more important oversight, again according to snopes, was the report's use of average deaths per capita instead of a more stable metric. Thanks to the smaller populations of most European countries, individual events in those countries had statistically oversized influence and warped the results. For example, Norway’s world-leading annual rate was due to a single devastating 2011 event, in which far-right extremist Anders Behring Breivik gunned down 69 people at a summer camp on the island of Utøya. Norway had zero mass shootings in 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015.

    An easy, though arguably insensitive, way to illustrate the shortcomings of this approach is to imagine it applied to the 9/11 attacks, which killed 2,977 people in the United States on a single day in 2001. Running that data through the CRPC formula yields the following statistic: Plane hijackings by terrorists caused an average of 297.7 deaths per year in the U.S. from 2001-2010. This is mathematically accurate, but it paints a badly distorted picture of what actually happened during those ten years.

    In addition, the CRPC study went a step further and computed average annual deaths per capita. Critics argue this further warps the data, because Norway’s population is a fraction of the U.S. population. As a result, Norway’s death rate came out more than 20 times higher than that of the U.S.—which tallied 66 deaths in 2012 alone (nearly matching Norway's total for the full study) and averaged at least one death per month for the entire seven-year data set.

    Please love yourself.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • George KG Offline
      George KG Offline
      George K
      wrote on last edited by
      #118

      Well....

      https://www.facebook.com/profile/100068130444319/search/?q=uvalde

      Screen Shot 2022-05-27 at 9.36.54 AM copy.jpg

      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

      Catseye3C 1 Reply Last reply
      • 89th8 Offline
        89th8 Offline
        89th
        wrote on last edited by
        #119

        Thousands are killed every year by other drivers who are drunk. This is significantly higher than those killed by active shooters (average of 3 per month). If we want to save lives, it would be logical to require breathalyzers in all vehicles...would have much more of an impact on saving lives than background checks or waiting periods when buying guns.

        Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
        • George KG George K

          Well....

          https://www.facebook.com/profile/100068130444319/search/?q=uvalde

          Screen Shot 2022-05-27 at 9.36.54 AM copy.jpg

          Catseye3C Offline
          Catseye3C Offline
          Catseye3
          wrote on last edited by
          #120

          @George-K said in Texas shooting.:

          Well....

          Man, that's just embarrassing.

          Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

          1 Reply Last reply
          • 89th8 89th

            Thousands are killed every year by other drivers who are drunk. This is significantly higher than those killed by active shooters (average of 3 per month). If we want to save lives, it would be logical to require breathalyzers in all vehicles...would have much more of an impact on saving lives than background checks or waiting periods when buying guns.

            Doctor PhibesD Offline
            Doctor PhibesD Offline
            Doctor Phibes
            wrote on last edited by
            #121

            @89th said in Texas shooting.:

            Thousands are killed every year by other drivers who are drunk. This is significantly higher than those killed by active shooters (average of 3 per month). If we want to save lives, it would be logical to require breathalyzers in all vehicles...would have much more of an impact on saving lives than background checks or waiting periods when buying guns.

            I seem to think at least one person on TNCR has said the current drink driving laws are overly restrictive and that they can drive perfectly safely when they're over the limit.

            I was only joking

            IvorythumperI 1 Reply Last reply
            • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

              @89th said in Texas shooting.:

              Thousands are killed every year by other drivers who are drunk. This is significantly higher than those killed by active shooters (average of 3 per month). If we want to save lives, it would be logical to require breathalyzers in all vehicles...would have much more of an impact on saving lives than background checks or waiting periods when buying guns.

              I seem to think at least one person on TNCR has said the current drink driving laws are overly restrictive and that they can drive perfectly safely when they're over the limit.

              IvorythumperI Offline
              IvorythumperI Offline
              Ivorythumper
              wrote on last edited by
              #122

              @Doctor-Phibes said in Texas shooting.:

              @89th said in Texas shooting.:

              Thousands are killed every year by other drivers who are drunk. This is significantly higher than those killed by active shooters (average of 3 per month). If we want to save lives, it would be logical to require breathalyzers in all vehicles...would have much more of an impact on saving lives than background checks or waiting periods when buying guns.

              I seem to think at least one person on TNCR has said the current drink driving laws are overly restrictive and that they can drive perfectly safely when they're over the limit.

              Not sure what that has to do with the point.

              Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
              • IvorythumperI Offline
                IvorythumperI Offline
                Ivorythumper
                wrote on last edited by
                #123

                So Red Flag Laws.. as David French proposes...

                In a nation of 330MM, red flag laws might prevent some crimes.
                That is of course extremely important, but also presumably unknowable.

                School shootings / mass shootings are statistically minuscule but present a very high degree of damage with a very low rate of occurrence and likelihood.

                So I’m inclined to support red flag laws, as a matter of due process for removing rights in the public interest, but it’s not going to stop the next event that happens.

                HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                • IvorythumperI Ivorythumper

                  @Doctor-Phibes said in Texas shooting.:

                  @89th said in Texas shooting.:

                  Thousands are killed every year by other drivers who are drunk. This is significantly higher than those killed by active shooters (average of 3 per month). If we want to save lives, it would be logical to require breathalyzers in all vehicles...would have much more of an impact on saving lives than background checks or waiting periods when buying guns.

                  I seem to think at least one person on TNCR has said the current drink driving laws are overly restrictive and that they can drive perfectly safely when they're over the limit.

                  Not sure what that has to do with the point.

                  Doctor PhibesD Offline
                  Doctor PhibesD Offline
                  Doctor Phibes
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #124

                  @Ivorythumper said in Texas shooting.:

                  @Doctor-Phibes said in Texas shooting.:

                  @89th said in Texas shooting.:

                  Thousands are killed every year by other drivers who are drunk. This is significantly higher than those killed by active shooters (average of 3 per month). If we want to save lives, it would be logical to require breathalyzers in all vehicles...would have much more of an impact on saving lives than background checks or waiting periods when buying guns.

                  I seem to think at least one person on TNCR has said the current drink driving laws are overly restrictive and that they can drive perfectly safely when they're over the limit.

                  Not sure what that has to do with the point.

                  Neither am I, other than that there's always somebody who thinks that laws are unnecessary or overly restrictive, because hey, they've never killed anybody.

                  I was only joking

                  HoraceH CopperC 2 Replies Last reply
                  • IvorythumperI Ivorythumper

                    So Red Flag Laws.. as David French proposes...

                    In a nation of 330MM, red flag laws might prevent some crimes.
                    That is of course extremely important, but also presumably unknowable.

                    School shootings / mass shootings are statistically minuscule but present a very high degree of damage with a very low rate of occurrence and likelihood.

                    So I’m inclined to support red flag laws, as a matter of due process for removing rights in the public interest, but it’s not going to stop the next event that happens.

                    HoraceH Offline
                    HoraceH Offline
                    Horace
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #125

                    @Ivorythumper said in Texas shooting.:

                    So Red Flag Laws.. as David French proposes...

                    In a nation of 330MM, red flag laws might prevent some crimes.
                    That is of course extremely important, but also presumably unknowable.

                    School shootings / mass shootings are statistically minuscule but present a very high degree of damage with a very low rate of occurrence and likelihood.

                    So I’m inclined to support red flag laws, as a matter of due process for removing rights in the public interest, but it’s not going to stop the next event that happens.

                    Sure. But as noted, it'll be impossible to judge the efficacy. And I wonder if we'd hear about unjust applications of this law. Those sorts of stories would not be pursued by media outlets in favor of these laws. Maybe we'd just never hear about the downside.

                    Education is extremely important.

                    IvorythumperI 1 Reply Last reply
                    • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                      @Ivorythumper said in Texas shooting.:

                      @Doctor-Phibes said in Texas shooting.:

                      @89th said in Texas shooting.:

                      Thousands are killed every year by other drivers who are drunk. This is significantly higher than those killed by active shooters (average of 3 per month). If we want to save lives, it would be logical to require breathalyzers in all vehicles...would have much more of an impact on saving lives than background checks or waiting periods when buying guns.

                      I seem to think at least one person on TNCR has said the current drink driving laws are overly restrictive and that they can drive perfectly safely when they're over the limit.

                      Not sure what that has to do with the point.

                      Neither am I, other than that there's always somebody who thinks that laws are unnecessary or overly restrictive, because hey, they've never killed anybody.

                      HoraceH Offline
                      HoraceH Offline
                      Horace
                      wrote on last edited by Horace
                      #126

                      @Doctor-Phibes said in Texas shooting.:

                      @Ivorythumper said in Texas shooting.:

                      @Doctor-Phibes said in Texas shooting.:

                      @89th said in Texas shooting.:

                      Thousands are killed every year by other drivers who are drunk. This is significantly higher than those killed by active shooters (average of 3 per month). If we want to save lives, it would be logical to require breathalyzers in all vehicles...would have much more of an impact on saving lives than background checks or waiting periods when buying guns.

                      I seem to think at least one person on TNCR has said the current drink driving laws are overly restrictive and that they can drive perfectly safely when they're over the limit.

                      Not sure what that has to do with the point.

                      Neither am I, other than that there's always somebody who thinks that laws are unnecessary or overly restrictive, because hey, they've never killed anybody.

                      It's not as if the opinion that "we should have tougher DUI penalties" is based on some legal weighing of crime and punishment. It's just axiomatic to most that "we should have tougher DUI penalties". It is actually possible to rationally conclude that the penalties are too severe, at some point. Not that that's my conclusion, but I would hear the discussion.

                      Education is extremely important.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • HoraceH Horace

                        @Ivorythumper said in Texas shooting.:

                        So Red Flag Laws.. as David French proposes...

                        In a nation of 330MM, red flag laws might prevent some crimes.
                        That is of course extremely important, but also presumably unknowable.

                        School shootings / mass shootings are statistically minuscule but present a very high degree of damage with a very low rate of occurrence and likelihood.

                        So I’m inclined to support red flag laws, as a matter of due process for removing rights in the public interest, but it’s not going to stop the next event that happens.

                        Sure. But as noted, it'll be impossible to judge the efficacy. And I wonder if we'd hear about unjust applications of this law. Those sorts of stories would not be pursued by media outlets in favor of these laws. Maybe we'd just never hear about the downside.

                        IvorythumperI Offline
                        IvorythumperI Offline
                        Ivorythumper
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #127

                        @Horace said in Texas shooting.:

                        @Ivorythumper said in Texas shooting.:

                        So Red Flag Laws.. as David French proposes...

                        In a nation of 330MM, red flag laws might prevent some crimes.
                        That is of course extremely important, but also presumably unknowable.

                        School shootings / mass shootings are statistically minuscule but present a very high degree of damage with a very low rate of occurrence and likelihood.

                        So I’m inclined to support red flag laws, as a matter of due process for removing rights in the public interest, but it’s not going to stop the next event that happens.

                        Sure. But as noted, it'll be impossible to judge the efficacy. And I wonder if we'd hear about unjust applications of this law. Those sorts of stories would not be pursued by media outlets in favor of these laws. Maybe we'd just never hear about the downside.

                        Anyone who challenges the personal application of such a law with be branded a nutter. It becomes a form a kafkatrapping.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                          @Ivorythumper said in Texas shooting.:

                          @Doctor-Phibes said in Texas shooting.:

                          @89th said in Texas shooting.:

                          Thousands are killed every year by other drivers who are drunk. This is significantly higher than those killed by active shooters (average of 3 per month). If we want to save lives, it would be logical to require breathalyzers in all vehicles...would have much more of an impact on saving lives than background checks or waiting periods when buying guns.

                          I seem to think at least one person on TNCR has said the current drink driving laws are overly restrictive and that they can drive perfectly safely when they're over the limit.

                          Not sure what that has to do with the point.

                          Neither am I, other than that there's always somebody who thinks that laws are unnecessary or overly restrictive, because hey, they've never killed anybody.

                          CopperC Offline
                          CopperC Offline
                          Copper
                          wrote on last edited by Copper
                          #128

                          @Doctor-Phibes said in Texas shooting.:

                          @Ivorythumper said in Texas shooting.:

                          @Doctor-Phibes said in Texas shooting.:

                          @89th said in Texas shooting.:

                          Thousands are killed every year by other drivers who are drunk. This is significantly higher than those killed by active shooters (average of 3 per month). If we want to save lives, it would be logical to require breathalyzers in all vehicles...would have much more of an impact on saving lives than background checks or waiting periods when buying guns.

                          I seem to think at least one person on TNCR has said the current drink driving laws are overly restrictive and that they can drive perfectly safely when they're over the limit.

                          Not sure what that has to do with the point.

                          Neither am I, other than that there's always somebody who thinks that laws are unnecessary or overly restrictive, because hey, they've never killed anybody.

                          ME!

                          That was me!

                          Did I say the laws are unnecessary? I don't think so.

                          But I probably said that decades ago I drove after drinking many, many times. And never hurt a soul. And never damaged any property.

                          I can't and don't do it any more, but that has nothing to do with laws.

                          There it is, I said it.

                          And I believe the answer was along the lines of shut up.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • MikM Offline
                            MikM Offline
                            Mik
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #129

                            One of my issues with current DUI laws are the penalties do not discern between .08 and .25. The havoc wreaked in one's life is the same. Drivers on the very low end of that are not the biggest issue. Per this article:

                            https://www.responsibility.org/alcohol-statistics/drunk-driving-statistics/drunk-driving-fatality-statistics/

                            "Hardcore drunk drivers continue to wreak havoc on our nation’s road accounting for nearly 70% of drunk driving fatalities, where there is a known alcohol-test result for the driver - a trend that has remained relatively unchanged for more than a decade."

                            “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • jon-nycJ Offline
                              jon-nycJ Offline
                              jon-nyc
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #130

                              Man the Uvalde police really screwed the pooch.

                              Only non-witches get due process.

                              • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                              CopperC 1 Reply Last reply
                              • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                Man the Uvalde police really screwed the pooch.

                                CopperC Offline
                                CopperC Offline
                                Copper
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #131

                                @jon-nyc said in Texas shooting.:

                                Man the Uvalde police really screwed the pooch.

                                Yes, cnn and fox are both raking them over the coals. Almost, but not quite, coming right out and calling them yellow.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • CopperC Offline
                                  CopperC Offline
                                  Copper
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #132

                                  AOC blames men

                                  https://www.foxnews.com/media/aoc-patriarchy-masculinity-texas-school-shooting

                                  Ocasio-Cortez called out America's "patriarchal society" and masculinity "rooted in the subjugation of other people" on the day after the attack.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • MikM Offline
                                    MikM Offline
                                    Mik
                                    wrote on last edited by Mik
                                    #133

                                    So does my niece. And not just men, white men. She posted this. There is so much fallacious there that one scarcely knows where to start.

                                    alt text

                                    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                    Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • Catseye3C Offline
                                      Catseye3C Offline
                                      Catseye3
                                      wrote on last edited by Catseye3
                                      #134

                                      "Ocasio-Cortez called out America's "patriarchal society" and masculinity "rooted in the subjugation of other people" on the day after the attack."

                                      Other people.
                                      ^

                                      d788bac0-2f23-40f0-9efa-f437e04af2a9-image.png

                                      Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • AxtremusA Offline
                                        AxtremusA Offline
                                        Axtremus
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #135

                                        https://www.reuters.com/world/us/protesters-holding-photos-shooting-victims-gather-outside-nra-convention-texas-2022-05-27/

                                        HOUSTON (Reuters) - A group of protesters angered over the shooting deaths of Texas elementary school students converged Friday outside the gun-lobby National Rifle Association’s annual convention in Houston.
                                        ...

                                        Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
                                        • AxtremusA Axtremus

                                          https://www.reuters.com/world/us/protesters-holding-photos-shooting-victims-gather-outside-nra-convention-texas-2022-05-27/

                                          HOUSTON (Reuters) - A group of protesters angered over the shooting deaths of Texas elementary school students converged Friday outside the gun-lobby National Rifle Association’s annual convention in Houston.
                                          ...

                                          Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                          Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                          Aqua Letifer
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #136

                                          @Axtremus said in Texas shooting.:

                                          https://www.reuters.com/world/us/protesters-holding-photos-shooting-victims-gather-outside-nra-convention-texas-2022-05-27/

                                          HOUSTON (Reuters) - A group of protesters angered over the shooting deaths of Texas elementary school students converged Friday outside the gun-lobby National Rifle Association’s annual convention in Houston.
                                          ...

                                          Not surprised. Only surprised if it doesn't get a little crazy.

                                          Please love yourself.

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