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The New Coffee Room

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  3. The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread

The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread

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  • C Catseye3
    13 May 2022, 12:44

    @Jolly "I don't invest in things I don't understand."

    You and Warren Buffett. That's why he's invested his whole life in Coca-Cola and none at all in computers.

    Is that where you got this investing strategy? 🙂

    8 Offline
    8 Offline
    89th
    wrote on 13 May 2022, 14:12 last edited by
    #291

    @Catseye3 said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

    @Jolly "I don't invest in things I don't understand."

    You and Warren Buffett. That's why he's invested his whole life in Coca-Cola and none at all in computers.

    Is that where you got this investing strategy? 🙂

    Well Buffet did start to invest in Apple. Only later did someone tell him it wasn't a fruit company.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • K Klaus
      13 May 2022, 13:44

      @Jolly said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

      If I could live my life over, there are some money things I would do different...or the same...

      1. Buffet said he started investing at 11, but wishes he had started investing at 7. I wish I had, too. Dollar average, dollar average, dollar average.
      2. Debt is a money killer. Some debt types are preferred over others. Mortgage debt is not entirely bad. Student loan debt - within reason - is not entirely bad. That comes with the caveat that you acquire DIY skills and start with a fixer-upper you can later sell at a profit. The caveat on student loan debt is you borrow no more than what you must and for most common degrees, there exists less expensive schools.
      3. Buy and hold. If you picked a good stock or a good fund, ride it.
      4. Diversify. Either by investing in the whole market by index funds or select sector funds in businesses that you know well. Own some real estate. Have a bit in bonds or bond funds.
      5. Always beware of fees. Some companies (example: M-L) will kill you with fees.
      6. Cash ain't bad. And the best way to acquire cash for the average person is to live below your means. You don't want too much of your wealth tied up in cash, but you want enough to be flexible in regards to opportunities or enough to cover any emergencies.

      Sounds good. I'd sharpen 2. to "No debt ever, except for a house (and in the US potentially student loan)". Don't have the cash for a new car? Buy a used one you can afford.

      I'd add: If you have money to spend, spend it on big "dream-fulfilling" things, rather than on general lifestyle things.

      And: Don't buy insurance for something that won't kill you financially in the damage event. The ROI is bad, so it's only worth it if the damage case is life-threatening.

      And: Separate friends and money. Don't lend money to your friends, or ask them for money.

      8 Offline
      8 Offline
      89th
      wrote on 13 May 2022, 14:15 last edited by
      #292

      @Klaus said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

      @Jolly said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

      If I could live my life over, there are some money things I would do different...or the same...

      1. Buffet said he started investing at 11, but wishes he had started investing at 7. I wish I had, too. Dollar average, dollar average, dollar average.
      2. Debt is a money killer. Some debt types are preferred over others. Mortgage debt is not entirely bad. Student loan debt - within reason - is not entirely bad. That comes with the caveat that you acquire DIY skills and start with a fixer-upper you can later sell at a profit. The caveat on student loan debt is you borrow no more than what you must and for most common degrees, there exists less expensive schools.
      3. Buy and hold. If you picked a good stock or a good fund, ride it.
      4. Diversify. Either by investing in the whole market by index funds or select sector funds in businesses that you know well. Own some real estate. Have a bit in bonds or bond funds.
      5. Always beware of fees. Some companies (example: M-L) will kill you with fees.
      6. Cash ain't bad. And the best way to acquire cash for the average person is to live below your means. You don't want too much of your wealth tied up in cash, but you want enough to be flexible in regards to opportunities or enough to cover any emergencies.

      Sounds good. I'd sharpen 2. to "No debt ever, except for a house (and in the US potentially student loan)". Don't have the cash for a new car? Buy a used one you can afford.

      I'd add: If you have money to spend, spend it on big "dream-fulfilling" things, rather than on general lifestyle things.

      And: Don't buy insurance for something that won't kill you financially in the damage event. The ROI is bad, so it's only worth it if the damage case is life-threatening.

      And: Separate friends and money. Don't lend money to your friends, or ask them for money.

      Good collection of advice. I'd also add avoid a credit card when you're young or get one only if you're able to pay it off every month. I know life is complicated and that's not possible for families who need purchasing power today, but I remember in my early 20s I almost got sucked into a "pay off one credit card with another credit card" black hole that could've been bad.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • X xenon
        12 May 2022, 19:14

        @89th said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

        @xenon said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

        The rest of the stuff? I don't know how it makes anyone's life better. (Maybe lower remittance fees... that's about it).

        I think ETH is behind NFTs which I could see as a significant way of the future for digital ownership.

        @mark nice! Let's get SHIB to the moon.

        It could... but digital ownership of what though... I don't own anything that would benefit from having a "digital deed" or being subject to digital scarcity.... that might just be "me" bias though.

        8 Offline
        8 Offline
        89th
        wrote on 13 May 2022, 14:17 last edited by
        #293

        @xenon said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

        @89th said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

        @xenon said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

        The rest of the stuff? I don't know how it makes anyone's life better. (Maybe lower remittance fees... that's about it).

        I think ETH is behind NFTs which I could see as a significant way of the future for digital ownership.

        @mark nice! Let's get SHIB to the moon.

        It could... but digital ownership of what though... I don't own anything that would benefit from having a "digital deed" or being subject to digital scarcity.... that might just be "me" bias though.

        Fair, I just have a gut feeling that in the future... provable ownership of digital assets will be a "thing" and that NFT seems to address that "thing" now.

        As far as crypto, I have about 1% of my whole investment portfolio in it. And it's very much a "check the balance in 20 years" type of thing.

        M 1 Reply Last reply 13 May 2022, 14:43
        • H Offline
          H Offline
          Horace
          wrote on 13 May 2022, 14:20 last edited by
          #294

          If you have a risk tolerance, and you believe your ability to pick stocks is of some value, then your expected long term return on your investments goes up as your diversification goes down. Diversification is a risk reducer rather than a returns improver.

          Education is extremely important.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • C Offline
            C Offline
            Catseye3
            wrote on 13 May 2022, 14:20 last edited by
            #295

            I turned one of those offers around! A card sent me an offer like that -- pay off other debt with this great one-time offer! Pay the balance in a year and owe no finance charge!

            I had something, I forget what, that I wanted. I divided the purchase price by 12, determined I could do it, and signed up. I paid off the balance in 12 months. no finance charge. The cherry on top was that the company actually LOST a little bit of money on postage!

            Ha!

            Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

            G 1 Reply Last reply 13 May 2022, 14:32
            • C Catseye3
              13 May 2022, 14:20

              I turned one of those offers around! A card sent me an offer like that -- pay off other debt with this great one-time offer! Pay the balance in a year and owe no finance charge!

              I had something, I forget what, that I wanted. I divided the purchase price by 12, determined I could do it, and signed up. I paid off the balance in 12 months. no finance charge. The cherry on top was that the company actually LOST a little bit of money on postage!

              Ha!

              G Offline
              G Offline
              George K
              wrote on 13 May 2022, 14:32 last edited by
              #296

              @Catseye3 said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

              The cherry on top was that the company actually LOST a little bit of money on postage!

              Ha!

              A small victory is still a victory!

              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • 8 89th
                13 May 2022, 14:17

                @xenon said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                @89th said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                @xenon said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                The rest of the stuff? I don't know how it makes anyone's life better. (Maybe lower remittance fees... that's about it).

                I think ETH is behind NFTs which I could see as a significant way of the future for digital ownership.

                @mark nice! Let's get SHIB to the moon.

                It could... but digital ownership of what though... I don't own anything that would benefit from having a "digital deed" or being subject to digital scarcity.... that might just be "me" bias though.

                Fair, I just have a gut feeling that in the future... provable ownership of digital assets will be a "thing" and that NFT seems to address that "thing" now.

                As far as crypto, I have about 1% of my whole investment portfolio in it. And it's very much a "check the balance in 20 years" type of thing.

                M Offline
                M Offline
                mark
                wrote on 13 May 2022, 14:43 last edited by
                #297

                @89th said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                @xenon said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                @89th said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                @xenon said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                The rest of the stuff? I don't know how it makes anyone's life better. (Maybe lower remittance fees... that's about it).

                I think ETH is behind NFTs which I could see as a significant way of the future for digital ownership.

                @mark nice! Let's get SHIB to the moon.

                It could... but digital ownership of what though... I don't own anything that would benefit from having a "digital deed" or being subject to digital scarcity.... that might just be "me" bias though.

                Fair, I just have a gut feeling that in the future... provable ownership of digital assets will be a "thing" and that NFT seems to address that "thing" now.

                As far as crypto, I have about 1% of my whole investment portfolio in it. And it's very much a "check the balance in 20 years" type of thing.

                About the same here except I am looking at 10 years. I have very little money invested in it. Once ETH and BC rebound, I will fire up the GPU mining again. Right now the profitability is way down. I turned them off last night after my latest round hit the payout trigger.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • A Axtremus
                  13 May 2022, 13:42

                  @Jolly said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                  1. Buffet said he started investing at 11, but wishes he had started investing at 7. I wish I had, too.

                  US law requires that you be at least 18 years old before you can open a brokerage account.

                  M Offline
                  M Offline
                  Mik
                  wrote on 13 May 2022, 15:45 last edited by
                  #298

                  @Axtremus said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                  @Jolly said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                  1. Buffet said he started investing at 11, but wishes he had started investing at 7. I wish I had, too.

                  US law requires that you be at least 18 years old before you can open a brokerage account.

                  Easily solved with a UGMA account. My daughter’s been invested since birth.

                  “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                  A 1 Reply Last reply 13 May 2022, 16:25
                  • M Mik
                    13 May 2022, 15:45

                    @Axtremus said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                    @Jolly said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                    1. Buffet said he started investing at 11, but wishes he had started investing at 7. I wish I had, too.

                    US law requires that you be at least 18 years old before you can open a brokerage account.

                    Easily solved with a UGMA account. My daughter’s been invested since birth.

                    A Away
                    A Away
                    Axtremus
                    wrote on 13 May 2022, 16:25 last edited by
                    #299

                    @Mik said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                    @Axtremus said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                    @Jolly said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                    1. Buffet said he started investing at 11, but wishes he had started investing at 7. I wish I had, too.

                    US law requires that you be at least 18 years old before you can open a brokerage account.

                    Easily solved with a UGMA account. My daughter’s been invested since birth.

                    Much respect and kudos to all parents who start investments for their children early. I was thinking more along the line of actual ownership and self-direction by the young person. A parent doing stuff for you is not the same as you doing stuff yourself, a bit like the “trust fund vs. self-made” difference. Of course, at the end of the day, a dollar from mom and dad will still worth the same as a dollar from one’s own labor on the open market. Just that for this discussion, I am hoping for options that young people can execute on their own. :man-shrugging:

                    J 1 Reply Last reply 13 May 2022, 19:27
                    • M Offline
                      M Offline
                      Mik
                      wrote on 13 May 2022, 16:34 last edited by
                      #300

                      It's easy. Just set up an account and have the parent invest whatever monies the child comes up with. Jesus.

                      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                      A 1 Reply Last reply 13 May 2022, 16:44
                      • M Mik
                        13 May 2022, 16:34

                        It's easy. Just set up an account and have the parent invest whatever monies the child comes up with. Jesus.

                        A Away
                        A Away
                        Axtremus
                        wrote on 13 May 2022, 16:44 last edited by
                        #301

                        @Mik said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                        It's easy. Just set up an account and have the parent invest whatever monies the child comes up with. Jesus.

                        I thought I wrote I was hoping for “options that the young people can execute on their own”.

                        H 1 Reply Last reply 13 May 2022, 17:04
                        • A Axtremus
                          13 May 2022, 16:44

                          @Mik said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                          It's easy. Just set up an account and have the parent invest whatever monies the child comes up with. Jesus.

                          I thought I wrote I was hoping for “options that the young people can execute on their own”.

                          H Offline
                          H Offline
                          Horace
                          wrote on 13 May 2022, 17:04 last edited by
                          #302

                          @Axtremus said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                          @Mik said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                          It's easy. Just set up an account and have the parent invest whatever monies the child comes up with. Jesus.

                          I thought I wrote I was hoping for “options that the young people can execute on their own”.

                          They don’t actually check who presses the buy/sell buttons on the website, or the conversations that led up to those decisions.

                          Education is extremely important.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • C Offline
                            C Offline
                            Catseye3
                            wrote on 13 May 2022, 18:54 last edited by
                            #303

                            6ea870dc-98ec-48e7-a75e-230978c036b2-image.png

                            Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • H Offline
                              H Offline
                              Horace
                              wrote on 13 May 2022, 19:03 last edited by
                              #304

                              The complexity of crypto is really beside the point. It’s not dissimilar in theory from a discovery of a shiny new metal that is hard to find and that enough people agree has value. Actually not even dissimilar from baseball cards and their value.

                              Education is extremely important.

                              X 1 Reply Last reply 13 May 2022, 19:06
                              • H Horace
                                13 May 2022, 19:03

                                The complexity of crypto is really beside the point. It’s not dissimilar in theory from a discovery of a shiny new metal that is hard to find and that enough people agree has value. Actually not even dissimilar from baseball cards and their value.

                                X Offline
                                X Offline
                                xenon
                                wrote on 13 May 2022, 19:06 last edited by xenon
                                #305

                                @Horace said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                                The complexity of crypto is really beside the point. It’s not dissimilar in theory from a discovery of a shiny new metal that is hard to find and that enough people agree has value. Actually not even dissimilar from baseball cards and their value.

                                That's the best argument for bitcoin. And bitcoin is strictly better than everything else on this dimension - it's not trying to be a platform for defi, there's no group of founders trying to take it in a certain direction, there's too much interest voting power that don't want the fundamentals of the platform to change, etc.

                                Bitcoin has a chance of becoming digital gold. Everything else just sounds like bullshit.

                                Yeah, bitcoin sucks as a transactional currency - but I don't need my gold transactions to be fast.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • A Axtremus
                                  13 May 2022, 16:25

                                  @Mik said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                                  @Axtremus said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                                  @Jolly said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                                  1. Buffet said he started investing at 11, but wishes he had started investing at 7. I wish I had, too.

                                  US law requires that you be at least 18 years old before you can open a brokerage account.

                                  Easily solved with a UGMA account. My daughter’s been invested since birth.

                                  Much respect and kudos to all parents who start investments for their children early. I was thinking more along the line of actual ownership and self-direction by the young person. A parent doing stuff for you is not the same as you doing stuff yourself, a bit like the “trust fund vs. self-made” difference. Of course, at the end of the day, a dollar from mom and dad will still worth the same as a dollar from one’s own labor on the open market. Just that for this discussion, I am hoping for options that young people can execute on their own. :man-shrugging:

                                  J Offline
                                  J Offline
                                  Jolly
                                  wrote on 13 May 2022, 19:27 last edited by
                                  #306

                                  @Axtremus said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                                  @Mik said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                                  @Axtremus said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                                  @Jolly said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                                  1. Buffet said he started investing at 11, but wishes he had started investing at 7. I wish I had, too.

                                  US law requires that you be at least 18 years old before you can open a brokerage account.

                                  Easily solved with a UGMA account. My daughter’s been invested since birth.

                                  Much respect and kudos to all parents who start investments for their children early. I was thinking more along the line of actual ownership and self-direction by the young person. A parent doing stuff for you is not the same as you doing stuff yourself, a bit like the “trust fund vs. self-made” difference. Of course, at the end of the day, a dollar from mom and dad will still worth the same as a dollar from one’s own labor on the open market. Just that for this discussion, I am hoping for options that young people can execute on their own. :man-shrugging:

                                  Precious metals. If one is willing to forgo the benefits of Roth or traditional 401K's , a child can purchase gold, platinum or silver at any age. That's bullion, coins or jewelry.

                                  Most everything else I know of revolves around an adult overseeing an account for a minor until they turn 18. I'm not sure if a minor becomes emancipated, if that rules still holds.

                                  Other than that, since U.S. law has a problem with minors signing contracts, Mik is right about UGMA/UTMA accounts.

                                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                  A 1 Reply Last reply 13 May 2022, 21:47
                                  • J Jolly
                                    13 May 2022, 19:27

                                    @Axtremus said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                                    @Mik said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                                    @Axtremus said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                                    @Jolly said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                                    1. Buffet said he started investing at 11, but wishes he had started investing at 7. I wish I had, too.

                                    US law requires that you be at least 18 years old before you can open a brokerage account.

                                    Easily solved with a UGMA account. My daughter’s been invested since birth.

                                    Much respect and kudos to all parents who start investments for their children early. I was thinking more along the line of actual ownership and self-direction by the young person. A parent doing stuff for you is not the same as you doing stuff yourself, a bit like the “trust fund vs. self-made” difference. Of course, at the end of the day, a dollar from mom and dad will still worth the same as a dollar from one’s own labor on the open market. Just that for this discussion, I am hoping for options that young people can execute on their own. :man-shrugging:

                                    Precious metals. If one is willing to forgo the benefits of Roth or traditional 401K's , a child can purchase gold, platinum or silver at any age. That's bullion, coins or jewelry.

                                    Most everything else I know of revolves around an adult overseeing an account for a minor until they turn 18. I'm not sure if a minor becomes emancipated, if that rules still holds.

                                    Other than that, since U.S. law has a problem with minors signing contracts, Mik is right about UGMA/UTMA accounts.

                                    A Away
                                    A Away
                                    Axtremus
                                    wrote on 13 May 2022, 21:47 last edited by
                                    #307

                                    @Jolly said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:

                                    Precious metals. If one is willing to forgo the benefits of Roth or traditional 401K's , a child can purchase gold, platinum or silver at any age. That's bullion, coins or jewelry.

                                    OK, those are certainly options that can be executed by the young people themselves. I suppose possession of physical things is generally a practical option, older generations are known to have collected baseball cards, dolls/action figures, comic books, beanie babies, etc. People can argue whether collectibles make good financial investments but there are enough to precedents showing that collectibles have many times been treated as investments. Thanks.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • taiwan_girlT Offline
                                      taiwan_girlT Offline
                                      taiwan_girl
                                      wrote on 15 May 2022, 03:48 last edited by
                                      #308

                                      @Jolly @Mik @Catseye3

                                      I agree with you guys on crypto currency. I don't see the value or understand it.

                                      Jolly, I also agree with you on Bogle. I try (and have try) to follow that advice for a long time. May not become super super rich, but will probably do better than 90% of the investors.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • X Offline
                                        X Offline
                                        xenon
                                        wrote on 18 May 2022, 19:11 last edited by xenon
                                        #309

                                        Eyes are on Tether now - which is another USD stablecoin.

                                        The market cap has decreased by about $10B over the last several days (withdrawals presumably). The worry is that they don't have reserves and are just printing tokens.

                                        If this trend continues (and Tether is indeed a fraud) - it'd be huge. Tether is the largest stablecoin and a huge liquidity provider for the crypto space.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • jon-nycJ Online
                                          jon-nycJ Online
                                          jon-nyc
                                          wrote on 22 May 2022, 15:16 last edited by
                                          #310

                                          My neighbor just posted this. A Bitcoin vending machine in a mini-mart at a gas station in Rhode Island.

                                          I think the installation of this particular machine was the signal to sell.

                                          C96333BB-0300-4A2A-BB76-0159ADA95E4A.jpeg

                                          "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
                                          -Cormac McCarthy

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