Roe Overturned?
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Roe Overturned?:
@89th said in Roe Overturned?:
Probably a good thing if those who feel super strongly about the right to choose, move to states which share their belief.
Yeah, it's kind of the point of having states. Mini-democracies to provide for their citizenry and try out the efficacy of legislative efforts.
Pretty tone deaf to presume anyone who wants to move can just go ahead and do so.
I don't make that assumption. My point was that it's for the good if people self-select and congregate over this, to whatever extent they are able. Right now we don't put "local laws" high on the list of reasons we move to or from states, but maybe this will change that. I would like to see people who feel viscerally about issues like this, go ahead and live amongst one another. Even if it's not always feasible for everybody to do so.
@Horace said in Roe Overturned?:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Roe Overturned?:
@89th said in Roe Overturned?:
Probably a good thing if those who feel super strongly about the right to choose, move to states which share their belief.
Yeah, it's kind of the point of having states. Mini-democracies to provide for their citizenry and try out the efficacy of legislative efforts.
Pretty tone deaf to presume anyone who wants to move can just go ahead and do so.
I don't make that assumption. My point was that it's for the good if people self-select and congregate over this, to whatever extent they are able. Right now we don't put "local laws" high on the list of reasons we move to or from states, but maybe this will change that. I would like to see people who feel viscerally about issues like this, go ahead and live amongst one another. Even if it's not always feasible for everybody to do so.
That makes sense.
One thing I don't get is the tone in this thread—equating a Roe overturn to a frivolous liberal sit-in. That's ridiculous. This is seriously going to impact many people's lives. It's not Justice for the Social Media Martyr of the Week.
Please love yourself.
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It will be interesting to see the electoral effects. With Roe/Casey in place, the GOP has tried to pass abortion-limiting laws that poll pretty well, like parental notification and late term stuff.
Without Roe we’ll see a lot of total bans, maybe including rape and incest. Those aren’t broadly popular. It will be interesting to watch.
@jon-nyc said in Roe Overturned?:
It will be interesting to see the electoral effects. With Roe/Casey in place, the GOP has tried to pass abortion-limiting laws that poll pretty well, like parental notification and late term stuff.
Without Roe we’ll see a lot of total bans, maybe including rape and incest. Those aren’t broadly popular. It will be interesting to watch.
I wonder how it effects State Legislature Elections. This will breath some life and energy into the Dems over the coming mid-terms.
The Brad
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@Aqua-Letifer said in RIP Roe:
@LuFins-Dad said in RIP Roe:
"MEN SHOULD NOT DECIDE WOMEN'S HEALTH!"
"MEN SHOULD NOT DECIDE WOMEN'S HEALTH!"
"MEN SHOULD NOT DECIDE WOMEN'S HEALTH!"
"MEN SHOULD NOT DECIDE WOMEN'S HEALTH!"What's a woman? Are they biologists now?
But now that men can get pregnant, my opinion matters as much as theirs.
There are an assload of people in this country who (1) think biology is physical, not a choice, (2) are critical of trans "rights" and (3) are adamant Roe supporters.
I disagree. Change #3 to adamant choice supporters and I agree. Many pro-choice attorneys and legal specialists find the decision problematic at best and some will even tell you it’s crap. But it upholds their issue so they support it. It’s kind of like the Donald J Trump of Supreme Court Decisions… A whole bunch of BS, but you liked the policies that came from it…
@LuFins-Dad said in Roe Overturned?:
@Aqua-Letifer said in RIP Roe:
@LuFins-Dad said in RIP Roe:
"MEN SHOULD NOT DECIDE WOMEN'S HEALTH!"
"MEN SHOULD NOT DECIDE WOMEN'S HEALTH!"
"MEN SHOULD NOT DECIDE WOMEN'S HEALTH!"
"MEN SHOULD NOT DECIDE WOMEN'S HEALTH!"What's a woman? Are they biologists now?
But now that men can get pregnant, my opinion matters as much as theirs.
There are an assload of people in this country who (1) think biology is physical, not a choice, (2) are critical of trans "rights" and (3) are adamant Roe supporters.
I disagree. Change #3 to adamant choice supporters and I agree. Many pro-choice attorneys and legal specialists find the decision problematic at best and some will even tell you it’s crap. But it upholds their issue so they support it. It’s kind of like the Donald J Trump of Supreme Court Decisions… A whole bunch of BS, but you liked the policies that came from it…
I don't think I have to tell you how messy abortion scenarios can get—but if so, feel free to do some googling.
Do you honestly think a woman facing one of those scenarios today should give more of a shit about caselaw than the consequences of having or not having an abortion?
Please love yourself.
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@jon-nyc said in Roe Overturned?:
It will be interesting to see the electoral effects. With Roe/Casey in place, the GOP has tried to pass abortion-limiting laws that poll pretty well, like parental notification and late term stuff.
Without Roe we’ll see a lot of total bans, maybe including rape and incest. Those aren’t broadly popular. It will be interesting to watch.
I wonder how it effects State Legislature Elections. This will breath some life and energy into the Dems over the coming mid-terms.
@LuFins-Dad said in Roe Overturned?:
@jon-nyc said in Roe Overturned?:
It will be interesting to see the electoral effects. With Roe/Casey in place, the GOP has tried to pass abortion-limiting laws that poll pretty well, like parental notification and late term stuff.
Without Roe we’ll see a lot of total bans, maybe including rape and incest. Those aren’t broadly popular. It will be interesting to watch.
I wonder how it effects State Legislature Elections. This will breath some life and energy into the Dems over the coming mid-terms.
If the GOP manage to shoot themselves in the foot over this in the current economic and political climate it would be hilarious.
Sorry, sorry, not hilarious. Tragic.
I was only joking
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The simple solution for those who don't want a baby is to keep your pants on. Sometimes I wonder if that is widely known.
I wonder if the ruling will make an accommodation for those who get pregnant before the law changes and who expected to be able to get an abortion if desired.
Maybe they'll grandfather in those who would like to kill their recently conceived babies.
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@LuFins-Dad said in Roe Overturned?:
@jon-nyc said in Roe Overturned?:
It will be interesting to see the electoral effects. With Roe/Casey in place, the GOP has tried to pass abortion-limiting laws that poll pretty well, like parental notification and late term stuff.
Without Roe we’ll see a lot of total bans, maybe including rape and incest. Those aren’t broadly popular. It will be interesting to watch.
I wonder how it effects State Legislature Elections. This will breath some life and energy into the Dems over the coming mid-terms.
If the GOP manage to shoot themselves in the foot over this in the current economic and political climate it would be hilarious.
Sorry, sorry, not hilarious. Tragic.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Roe Overturned?:
@LuFins-Dad said in Roe Overturned?:
@jon-nyc said in Roe Overturned?:
It will be interesting to see the electoral effects. With Roe/Casey in place, the GOP has tried to pass abortion-limiting laws that poll pretty well, like parental notification and late term stuff.
Without Roe we’ll see a lot of total bans, maybe including rape and incest. Those aren’t broadly popular. It will be interesting to watch.
I wonder how it effects State Legislature Elections. This will breath some life and energy into the Dems over the coming mid-terms.
If the GOP manage to shoot themselves in the foot over this in the current economic and political climate it would be hilarious.
Sorry, sorry, not hilarious. Tragic.
I don't think the supreme court has the GOP's interests in mind. The leaker is the politically motivated actor here, and they did not act on behalf of the GOP.
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@LuFins-Dad said in Roe Overturned?:
@Aqua-Letifer said in RIP Roe:
@LuFins-Dad said in RIP Roe:
"MEN SHOULD NOT DECIDE WOMEN'S HEALTH!"
"MEN SHOULD NOT DECIDE WOMEN'S HEALTH!"
"MEN SHOULD NOT DECIDE WOMEN'S HEALTH!"
"MEN SHOULD NOT DECIDE WOMEN'S HEALTH!"What's a woman? Are they biologists now?
But now that men can get pregnant, my opinion matters as much as theirs.
There are an assload of people in this country who (1) think biology is physical, not a choice, (2) are critical of trans "rights" and (3) are adamant Roe supporters.
I disagree. Change #3 to adamant choice supporters and I agree. Many pro-choice attorneys and legal specialists find the decision problematic at best and some will even tell you it’s crap. But it upholds their issue so they support it. It’s kind of like the Donald J Trump of Supreme Court Decisions… A whole bunch of BS, but you liked the policies that came from it…
I don't think I have to tell you how messy abortion scenarios can get—but if so, feel free to do some googling.
Do you honestly think a woman facing one of those scenarios today should give more of a shit about caselaw than the consequences of having or not having an abortion?
@Aqua-Letifer said in Roe Overturned?:
@LuFins-Dad said in Roe Overturned?:
@Aqua-Letifer said in RIP Roe:
@LuFins-Dad said in RIP Roe:
"MEN SHOULD NOT DECIDE WOMEN'S HEALTH!"
"MEN SHOULD NOT DECIDE WOMEN'S HEALTH!"
"MEN SHOULD NOT DECIDE WOMEN'S HEALTH!"
"MEN SHOULD NOT DECIDE WOMEN'S HEALTH!"What's a woman? Are they biologists now?
But now that men can get pregnant, my opinion matters as much as theirs.
There are an assload of people in this country who (1) think biology is physical, not a choice, (2) are critical of trans "rights" and (3) are adamant Roe supporters.
I disagree. Change #3 to adamant choice supporters and I agree. Many pro-choice attorneys and legal specialists find the decision problematic at best and some will even tell you it’s crap. But it upholds their issue so they support it. It’s kind of like the Donald J Trump of Supreme Court Decisions… A whole bunch of BS, but you liked the policies that came from it…
I don't think I have to tell you how messy abortion scenarios can get—but if so, feel free to do some googling.
Do you honestly think a woman facing one of those scenarios today should give more of a shit about caselaw than the consequences of having or not having an abortion?
Great! Then support pro choice legislation! Support pro choice candidates! Win the hearts and minds of the people if that is your wish. Don’t support a poor legal judgement that can (by the very nature of case law) be used to justify additional poor decisions.
The Brad
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It all comes down to 1 fundamental question. When is somebody recognized as being alive with all the essential human rights that come along with that?
The Brad
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Roe Overturned?:
@LuFins-Dad said in Roe Overturned?:
@Aqua-Letifer said in RIP Roe:
@LuFins-Dad said in RIP Roe:
"MEN SHOULD NOT DECIDE WOMEN'S HEALTH!"
"MEN SHOULD NOT DECIDE WOMEN'S HEALTH!"
"MEN SHOULD NOT DECIDE WOMEN'S HEALTH!"
"MEN SHOULD NOT DECIDE WOMEN'S HEALTH!"What's a woman? Are they biologists now?
But now that men can get pregnant, my opinion matters as much as theirs.
There are an assload of people in this country who (1) think biology is physical, not a choice, (2) are critical of trans "rights" and (3) are adamant Roe supporters.
I disagree. Change #3 to adamant choice supporters and I agree. Many pro-choice attorneys and legal specialists find the decision problematic at best and some will even tell you it’s crap. But it upholds their issue so they support it. It’s kind of like the Donald J Trump of Supreme Court Decisions… A whole bunch of BS, but you liked the policies that came from it…
I don't think I have to tell you how messy abortion scenarios can get—but if so, feel free to do some googling.
Do you honestly think a woman facing one of those scenarios today should give more of a shit about caselaw than the consequences of having or not having an abortion?
Great! Then support pro choice legislation! Support pro choice candidates! Win the hearts and minds of the people if that is your wish. Don’t support a poor legal judgement that can (by the very nature of case law) be used to justify additional poor decisions.
@LuFins-Dad said in Roe Overturned?:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Roe Overturned?:
@LuFins-Dad said in Roe Overturned?:
@Aqua-Letifer said in RIP Roe:
@LuFins-Dad said in RIP Roe:
"MEN SHOULD NOT DECIDE WOMEN'S HEALTH!"
"MEN SHOULD NOT DECIDE WOMEN'S HEALTH!"
"MEN SHOULD NOT DECIDE WOMEN'S HEALTH!"
"MEN SHOULD NOT DECIDE WOMEN'S HEALTH!"What's a woman? Are they biologists now?
But now that men can get pregnant, my opinion matters as much as theirs.
There are an assload of people in this country who (1) think biology is physical, not a choice, (2) are critical of trans "rights" and (3) are adamant Roe supporters.
I disagree. Change #3 to adamant choice supporters and I agree. Many pro-choice attorneys and legal specialists find the decision problematic at best and some will even tell you it’s crap. But it upholds their issue so they support it. It’s kind of like the Donald J Trump of Supreme Court Decisions… A whole bunch of BS, but you liked the policies that came from it…
I don't think I have to tell you how messy abortion scenarios can get—but if so, feel free to do some googling.
Do you honestly think a woman facing one of those scenarios today should give more of a shit about caselaw than the consequences of having or not having an abortion?
Great! Then support pro choice legislation! Support pro choice candidates! Win the hearts and minds of the people if that is your wish. Don’t support a poor legal judgement that can (by the very nature of case law) be used to justify additional poor decisions.
In other words, you're doubling down on your Trust the Process hand-waving while denying the gravity of all practical consequences.
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It all comes down to 1 fundamental question. When is somebody recognized as being alive with all the essential human rights that come along with that?
@LuFins-Dad said in Roe Overturned?:
It all comes down to 1 fundamental question. When is somebody recognized as being alive with all the essential human rights that come along with that?
lol. For you maybe. Others also worry about life-and-death scenarios that involve the mother.
Please love yourself.
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@LuFins-Dad said in Roe Overturned?:
It all comes down to 1 fundamental question. When is somebody recognized as being alive with all the essential human rights that come along with that?
lol. For you maybe. Others also worry about life-and-death scenarios that involve the mother.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Roe Overturned?:
Others also worry about life-and-death scenarios that involve the mother.
Was Roe really about that?
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@LuFins-Dad said in Roe Overturned?:
It all comes down to 1 fundamental question. When is somebody recognized as being alive with all the essential human rights that come along with that?
lol. For you maybe. Others also worry about life-and-death scenarios that involve the mother.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Roe Overturned?:
@LuFins-Dad said in Roe Overturned?:
It all comes down to 1 fundamental question. When is somebody recognized as being alive with all the essential human rights that come along with that?
lol. For you maybe. Others also worry about life-and-death scenarios that involve the mother.
Yep, that’s me, supporting an across the board ban on abortions. You know, we should get rid of birth control, too! Our sperm and eggs have rights…
Yes, there are cases where a woman’s life is in danger if she carries to term, and there are also other extreme health and life challenges beyond that. I know this better than most when I had to rush my 4 month pregnant wife to the emergency room, where she was admitted to the hospital for 2 weeks and then had to spend the next 5 months confined to total bed rest with her health at risk and she couldn’t work. Legally, we had a choice we could have made but for us it wasn’t really a choice, though I can appreciate others choosing otherwise. However, these cases are the exception and should be treated as such. Abortion as belated birth control is fundamentally evil, but if a state is going to restrict it then it is also incumbent upon that state and the private citizens and businesses to provide adequate support for these young mothers and their children…
The Brad
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However, these cases are the exception and should be treated as such. Abortion as belated birth control is fundamentally evil, but if a state is going to restrict it then it is also incumbent upon that state and the private citizens and businesses to provide adequate support for these young mothers and their children…
That's the whole point. They're not.
Please love yourself.
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Chuck Schumer is an evil moron. The democrats rely on misrepresenting the facts to create a false narrative in every issue they take on. What's even worse is they don't hold their position on this issue based on any principles they hold, because they don't have any principles beyond how they can get votes out of it.
Never... NEVER... get in the way of a left winger killing babies. "A woman's right to choose" my ass - she had her choice to keep her legs together. The pro life side has tried to accomadate them by compromising on the first few months of pregnancy to give her a choice. But that's not good enough!! NOOO, the Left isn't happy unless they have federal control allowing them to kill babies right up until birth.
This is, and should have always been, a state by state issue. If you want to kill your baby and you live in a state that doesn't allow baby killing, you don't have to move to a baby killing state to kill your baby. Just load your ass up in the car and take a road trip to a state that kills babies, and then go back home. 2 day trip at the most.
Our nation will pay for killing babies. It may have already been paying for it.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Roe Overturned?:
@LuFins-Dad said in Roe Overturned?:
It all comes down to 1 fundamental question. When is somebody recognized as being alive with all the essential human rights that come along with that?
lol. For you maybe. Others also worry about life-and-death scenarios that involve the mother.
Yep, that’s me, supporting an across the board ban on abortions. You know, we should get rid of birth control, too! Our sperm and eggs have rights…
Yes, there are cases where a woman’s life is in danger if she carries to term, and there are also other extreme health and life challenges beyond that. I know this better than most when I had to rush my 4 month pregnant wife to the emergency room, where she was admitted to the hospital for 2 weeks and then had to spend the next 5 months confined to total bed rest with her health at risk and she couldn’t work. Legally, we had a choice we could have made but for us it wasn’t really a choice, though I can appreciate others choosing otherwise. However, these cases are the exception and should be treated as such. Abortion as belated birth control is fundamentally evil, but if a state is going to restrict it then it is also incumbent upon that state and the private citizens and businesses to provide adequate support for these young mothers and their children…
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It all comes down to 1 fundamental question. When is somebody recognized as being alive with all the essential human rights that come along with that?
@LuFins-Dad said in Roe Overturned?:
It all comes down to 1 fundamental question. When is somebody recognized as being alive with all the essential human rights that come along with that?
Ding! Ding! Ding!
Winner, winner, chicken dinner!
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However, these cases are the exception and should be treated as such. Abortion as belated birth control is fundamentally evil, but if a state is going to restrict it then it is also incumbent upon that state and the private citizens and businesses to provide adequate support for these young mothers and their children…
That's the whole point. They're not.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Roe Overturned?:
However, these cases are the exception and should be treated as such. Abortion as belated birth control is fundamentally evil, but if a state is going to restrict it then it is also incumbent upon that state and the private citizens and businesses to provide adequate support for these young mothers and their children…
That's the whole point. They're not.
The cases aren’t the exception or the states aren’t supporting the mothers? Or both?
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However, these cases are the exception and should be treated as such. Abortion as belated birth control is fundamentally evil, but if a state is going to restrict it then it is also incumbent upon that state and the private citizens and businesses to provide adequate support for these young mothers and their children…
That's the whole point. They're not.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Roe Overturned?:
However, these cases are the exception and should be treated as such. Abortion as belated birth control is fundamentally evil, but if a state is going to restrict it then it is also incumbent upon that state and the private citizens and businesses to provide adequate support for these young mothers and their children…
That's the whole point. They're not.
But they can be.
And maybe that's the best policy point going forward... -
@Horace said in Roe Overturned?:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Roe Overturned?:
@89th said in Roe Overturned?:
Probably a good thing if those who feel super strongly about the right to choose, move to states which share their belief.
Yeah, it's kind of the point of having states. Mini-democracies to provide for their citizenry and try out the efficacy of legislative efforts.
Pretty tone deaf to presume anyone who wants to move can just go ahead and do so.
I don't make that assumption. My point was that it's for the good if people self-select and congregate over this, to whatever extent they are able. Right now we don't put "local laws" high on the list of reasons we move to or from states, but maybe this will change that. I would like to see people who feel viscerally about issues like this, go ahead and live amongst one another. Even if it's not always feasible for everybody to do so.
That makes sense.
One thing I don't get is the tone in this thread—equating a Roe overturn to a frivolous liberal sit-in. That's ridiculous. This is seriously going to impact many people's lives. It's not Justice for the Social Media Martyr of the Week.
@Aqua-Letifer said in [Roe Overturned?]
One thing I don't get is the tone in this thread—equating a Roe overturn to a frivolous liberal sit-in. That's ridiculous. This is seriously going to impact many people's lives. It's not Justice for the Social Media Martyr of the Week.
I mean, one could argue allowing abortions also impacted (and ended) many lives.
Yes the issue is complicated, passions on both sides. That’ll never end because there will never be consensus on when life/rights begin, whether killing an unborn baby with a beating heart is the same as killing a newborn, whether women’s rights trump prenatal rights, and certainly the cases of health risk, rape, failed pregnancies at 20 weeks, etc….
It’s complicated, which is one reason I think leaving states to legislate makes more sense than a federal ruling. It allows for legal variation across the country. The ability to move to a state to bask in a different legal culture doesn’t impact things here IMO, that’s a side topic. There are many other laws that folks might move to/away from too.
