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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Travesty

Travesty

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion
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  • X xenon

    I don’t know anything about FARA violations.

    In terms of him not lying to the FBI, is this what you’re talking about:

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/comey-told-lawmakers-fbi-agents-saw-no-physical-indications-of-deception-in-michael-flynn

    If I’m reading that correctly - the trained FBI agents didn’t see physical evidence of deception from Flynn, but they knew that his statements were inconsistent with the call.

    So either he’s really forgetful, or a good liar.

    Is there something more you’re referring to?

    "Director Comey testified to the committee that 'the agents…discerned no physical indications of deception. They didn't see any change in posture, in tone, in inflection, in eye contact. They saw nothing that indicated to them that he knew he was lying to them,'" the report says, quoting Comey.

    McCabe, the report continues, "confirmed the interviewing agent's initial impression and stated that the 'conundrum that we faced on their return from the interview is that although [the agents] didn't detect deception in the statements that he made in the interview … the statements were inconsistent with our understanding of the conversation that he had actually had with the ambassador.'""

    X Online
    X Online
    xenon
    wrote on last edited by
    #152

    @xenon said in Travesty:

    So either he’s really forgetful, or a good liar.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • George KG Offline
      George KG Offline
      George K
      wrote on last edited by
      #153

      Not "fired." Rather "asked to resign."

      Dana Boente, a longtime lawyer for the FBI, resigned on Saturday allegedly at the request of the Justice Department, following earlier allegations that he had worked to block the public release of exculpatory evidence in the Michael Flynn case.

      Boente had been at the FBI for just under 40 years. Anonymous sources told NBC News on Saturday that the request for his resignation came from "high levels" of the Justice Department.

      An FBI official told The Federalist in April that Boente "led the charge internally against DOJ’s disclosure" against allegedly exculpatory documents of Michael Flynn.

      FBI Director Christopher Wray on Saturday commended Boente for serving in "many critical, high-level roles at the Department."

      An FBI official told The Federalist in April that Boente "led the charge internally against DOJ’s disclosure" against allegedly exculpatory documents of Michael Flynn.

      What?

      Hidden "exculpatory evidence?" Is that like, evidence that he didn't lie?

      And the guy who helped hide it "resigned" today.

      Nothing to see...move along.

      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • X Online
        X Online
        xenon
        wrote on last edited by
        #154

        Seems like this story is incomplete.

        Wray praises him after his resignation - the reporting says the request for resignation came from DOJ.

        I think that’s all we know at this point. The exculpatory commentary is just from the Federalist.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • George KG Offline
          George KG Offline
          George K
          wrote on last edited by
          #155

          @xenon said in Travesty:

          The exculpatory commentary is just from the Federalist.

          Is it false?

          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

          X 1 Reply Last reply
          • George KG George K

            @xenon said in Travesty:

            The exculpatory commentary is just from the Federalist.

            Is it false?

            X Online
            X Online
            xenon
            wrote on last edited by
            #156

            @George-K is it true?

            George KG 1 Reply Last reply
            • X xenon

              @George-K is it true?

              George KG Offline
              George KG Offline
              George K
              wrote on last edited by
              #157

              @xenon said in Travesty:

              @George-K is it true?

              Your comment was "It's from the Federalist." If you attack the messenger, show me that he's lying.

              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

              X 1 Reply Last reply
              • George KG George K

                @xenon said in Travesty:

                @George-K is it true?

                Your comment was "It's from the Federalist." If you attack the messenger, show me that he's lying.

                X Online
                X Online
                xenon
                wrote on last edited by xenon
                #158

                @George-K your own link caveats it with “allegedly”

                An FBI official told The Federalist in April that Boente "led the charge internally against DOJ’s disclosure" against allegedly exculpatory documents of Michael Flynn..

                So until that’s confirmed - I won’t comment on it.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • George KG Offline
                  George KG Offline
                  George K
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #159

                  Fair enough.

                  Any thoughts on why the attorney resigned? Did he want to spend more time with his family?

                  "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                  The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                  X 1 Reply Last reply
                  • George KG George K

                    Fair enough.

                    Any thoughts on why the attorney resigned? Did he want to spend more time with his family?

                    X Online
                    X Online
                    xenon
                    wrote on last edited by xenon
                    #160

                    @George-K my guess would be that he’s ultimately responsible for the sloppy FISA warrants.

                    He signed off on them - and probably many more.

                    DOJ is probably pissed with the public loss of trust in FISA.

                    That’s gotta fall on someone senior.

                    That’d be my speculation (I’m guessing you can also interpret that as being exculpatory evidence - the Flynn FISA warrants being bad)

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • George KG Offline
                      George KG Offline
                      George K
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #161

                      Mueller's team lied to the court when they say Flynn discussed sanctions:

                      https://thefederalist.com/2020/06/01/new-flynn-transcripts-confirm-mueller-team-lied-to-the-court-and-the-country/#.XtUrLRdvZp4.twitter

                      The Statement of Offense professed that on Dec. 29, 2016, “FLYNN called the Russian Ambassador and requested that Russia not escalate the situation and only respond to the U.S. Sanctions in a reciprocal manner.”

                      According to the Statement of Offense, during questioning by the FBI agents, “FLYNN falsely stated that he did not ask Russia’s Ambassador to the United States (‘Russian Ambassador’) to refrain from escalating the situation in response to sanctions that the United States had imposed against Russia,” and “also falsely stated that he did not remember a follow-up conversation in which the Russian Ambassador stated that Russia had chosen to moderate its response to those sanctions as a result of FLYNN’S request.”

                      However, the transcripts released Friday establish that, contrary to the special counsel office’s attestation, Flynn never asked the Russian ambassador to “not escalate the situation and only respond to the U.S. Sanctions in a reciprocal manner.” In fact, Flynn never raised the “U.S. Sanctions” — defined by the special counsel’s office as the sanctions announced by Obama Dec. 28, 2016, in Executive Order 13757 — with the Russian ambassador at all.

                      In that executive order, as summarized in a White House press release, Obama “sanctioned nine entities and individuals: the GRU and the FSB, two Russian intelligence services; four individual officers of the GRU; and three companies that provided material support to the GRU’s cyber operations.” The press release also detailed a number of additional Obama administration actions, beyond the sanctions, “in response to the Russian government’s aggressive harassment of U.S. officials and cyber operations aimed at the U.S. election.”

                      Of relevance to the Flynn case was the State Department “shutting down two Russian compounds, in Maryland and New York, used by Russian personnel for intelligence-related purposes,” and declaring “‘persona non grata’ 35 Russian intelligence operatives.”

                      While the Obama administration ejected the Russian personnel in response to the Kremlin’s interference with the 2016 election, the expulsions were not part of Executive Order 13757 and thus were not “U.S. Sanctions” as defined in the Flynn Statement of Offense. This distinction matters because the recently released transcripts establish that Flynn did not ask Kislyak to do anything — or refrain from doing anything — in response to the sanctions.

                      And this isn't splitting hairs, the Mueller team knew the distinction in "sanctions."

                      First, as detailed above, Mueller’s team explicitly defined “U.S. Sanctions” in the Statement of Offense as the sanctions announced in Executive Order 13757, and the expulsions were not part of that executive order. Second, in its press release, the Obama administration distinguished between sanctions and other “actions” it was taking in response to Russia’s interference with the 2016 election, and the latter included the expulsions.

                      The special counsel’s report also distinguished between sanctions and other retaliatory measures, stating that Executive Order 13757 “imposed sanctions on nine Russian individuals and entities,” but then noting that “the Obama Administration also expelled 35 Russian government officials and closed two Russian government-owned compounds in the United States.”

                      Elsewhere, Mueller’s team distinguished between sanctions and other retaliatory measures by, for instance, stating that “on December 29, 2016, the Obama Administration announced that in response to Russian cyber operations aimed at the U.S. election, it was imposing sanctions and other measures on several Russian individuals and entities...”

                      Mueller’s team surely knew that the distinction between sanctions and expulsions mattered when it came to Flynn and his conversation with the FBI agents because shortly after Strzok and Pientka questioned Flynn, Flynn publicly refuted media reports that he had discussed sanctions with Russia. I had “a brief discussion of the 35 Russian diplomats who were being expelled by Obama in retaliation for Moscow’s alleged interference in the 2016 campaign. ‘It wasn’t about sanctions. It was about the 35 guys who were thrown out,’” Flynn stated.

                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                      X 1 Reply Last reply
                      • George KG George K

                        Mueller's team lied to the court when they say Flynn discussed sanctions:

                        https://thefederalist.com/2020/06/01/new-flynn-transcripts-confirm-mueller-team-lied-to-the-court-and-the-country/#.XtUrLRdvZp4.twitter

                        The Statement of Offense professed that on Dec. 29, 2016, “FLYNN called the Russian Ambassador and requested that Russia not escalate the situation and only respond to the U.S. Sanctions in a reciprocal manner.”

                        According to the Statement of Offense, during questioning by the FBI agents, “FLYNN falsely stated that he did not ask Russia’s Ambassador to the United States (‘Russian Ambassador’) to refrain from escalating the situation in response to sanctions that the United States had imposed against Russia,” and “also falsely stated that he did not remember a follow-up conversation in which the Russian Ambassador stated that Russia had chosen to moderate its response to those sanctions as a result of FLYNN’S request.”

                        However, the transcripts released Friday establish that, contrary to the special counsel office’s attestation, Flynn never asked the Russian ambassador to “not escalate the situation and only respond to the U.S. Sanctions in a reciprocal manner.” In fact, Flynn never raised the “U.S. Sanctions” — defined by the special counsel’s office as the sanctions announced by Obama Dec. 28, 2016, in Executive Order 13757 — with the Russian ambassador at all.

                        In that executive order, as summarized in a White House press release, Obama “sanctioned nine entities and individuals: the GRU and the FSB, two Russian intelligence services; four individual officers of the GRU; and three companies that provided material support to the GRU’s cyber operations.” The press release also detailed a number of additional Obama administration actions, beyond the sanctions, “in response to the Russian government’s aggressive harassment of U.S. officials and cyber operations aimed at the U.S. election.”

                        Of relevance to the Flynn case was the State Department “shutting down two Russian compounds, in Maryland and New York, used by Russian personnel for intelligence-related purposes,” and declaring “‘persona non grata’ 35 Russian intelligence operatives.”

                        While the Obama administration ejected the Russian personnel in response to the Kremlin’s interference with the 2016 election, the expulsions were not part of Executive Order 13757 and thus were not “U.S. Sanctions” as defined in the Flynn Statement of Offense. This distinction matters because the recently released transcripts establish that Flynn did not ask Kislyak to do anything — or refrain from doing anything — in response to the sanctions.

                        And this isn't splitting hairs, the Mueller team knew the distinction in "sanctions."

                        First, as detailed above, Mueller’s team explicitly defined “U.S. Sanctions” in the Statement of Offense as the sanctions announced in Executive Order 13757, and the expulsions were not part of that executive order. Second, in its press release, the Obama administration distinguished between sanctions and other “actions” it was taking in response to Russia’s interference with the 2016 election, and the latter included the expulsions.

                        The special counsel’s report also distinguished between sanctions and other retaliatory measures, stating that Executive Order 13757 “imposed sanctions on nine Russian individuals and entities,” but then noting that “the Obama Administration also expelled 35 Russian government officials and closed two Russian government-owned compounds in the United States.”

                        Elsewhere, Mueller’s team distinguished between sanctions and other retaliatory measures by, for instance, stating that “on December 29, 2016, the Obama Administration announced that in response to Russian cyber operations aimed at the U.S. election, it was imposing sanctions and other measures on several Russian individuals and entities...”

                        Mueller’s team surely knew that the distinction between sanctions and expulsions mattered when it came to Flynn and his conversation with the FBI agents because shortly after Strzok and Pientka questioned Flynn, Flynn publicly refuted media reports that he had discussed sanctions with Russia. I had “a brief discussion of the 35 Russian diplomats who were being expelled by Obama in retaliation for Moscow’s alleged interference in the 2016 campaign. ‘It wasn’t about sanctions. It was about the 35 guys who were thrown out,’” Flynn stated.

                        X Online
                        X Online
                        xenon
                        wrote on last edited by xenon
                        #162

                        @George-K

                        So - because of this thread I've actually read the conversation between Kislyak and Flynn.
                        https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2020/05/FlynnTranscripts.pdf

                        I know news guys want to drive their particular narrative, but it's plain as day if you read it that Flynn isn't being precise about parsing sanctions vs. expulsions vs. other actions.

                        Flynn doesn't even seems completely sure as to the full totality of the Obama admin's actions.

                        Flynn wants to convey the following [to Moscow]: Do not allow this administration to box us in

                        right now! Kislyak says the have conveyed it very clearly.

                        Flynn: So, depending on what actions they take over this current issue of cyber stuff, where they

                        are looking like they are going to dismiss some number of Russians out of the country. I

                        understand all that and I understand that the information that they have and all that. But I ask

                        Russia to do is to not, if anything, I know you have to have some sort of action, to only make it

                        reciprocal; don't go any further than you have to because I don't want us to get into something

                        that have to escalate to tit-for-tat. Do you follow me?

                        And Kislyak does respond specifically talking about the actions against GRU and FSB (which are specifically part of the EO)

                        Kislyak agrees. Now when FSB and GRU are sanctioned and Kislyak asks himself, does it mean

                        that the U.S. is not willing to work on terrorist threats, Kislyak poses a question. Flynn says, yes.

                        Kislyak says he heard Flynn and he will try people in Moscow to understand.

                        I mean - Flynn never technically says the word "sanction" and Kislyak seems much more knowledge about the specific pieces at play. But Flynn is calling this whole topic "cyber stuff", so he's not exactly well versed with the terms at play here.

                        Page 10-11 of the linked PDF has the full convo.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • JollyJ Offline
                          JollyJ Offline
                          Jolly
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #163

                          Weissman.

                          SOB has withheld evidence before, so innocent men could go to jail.

                          That's your hero, Xenon.

                          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • George KG Offline
                            George KG Offline
                            George K
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #164

                            From the handwritten 302, the agents discuss the goal of the "interview."

                            alt text

                            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • X Online
                              X Online
                              xenon
                              wrote on last edited by xenon
                              #165

                              I feel like I'm too forcefully trying to "prosecute" Flynn.

                              Back to my original sense of this.

                              • The FBI was way overzealous here (railroading?)

                              • Flynn was not a good operator here either. He's not an innocent bystander

                              All shades of grey.

                              JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                              • George KG Offline
                                George KG Offline
                                George K
                                wrote on last edited by George K
                                #166

                                Here's the typed 302:

                                Note the circled part.

                                alt text

                                The allegation says he "falsely stated that he did not ask Russia's Ambassaord...to refrain from escalating the situation."

                                The 302 says he doesn't remember talking about it.

                                "I don't recall" worked for Hillary and Comey, didn't it?

                                "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • MikM Offline
                                  MikM Offline
                                  Mik
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #167

                                  This stinks to high heaven.

                                  “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                  George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • JollyJ Offline
                                    JollyJ Offline
                                    Jolly
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #168

                                    Which is why Barr wants to walk away from it.

                                    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • MikM Mik

                                      This stinks to high heaven.

                                      George KG Offline
                                      George KG Offline
                                      George K
                                      wrote on last edited by George K
                                      #169

                                      @Mik said in Travesty:

                                      This stinks to high heaven.

                                      85 Lies, Contradictions, Oddities, and Unusual Occurrences

                                      For example:

                                      1. Who Briefed Obama?

                                      Comey testified to Congress that it was then-Director of National Intelligence James Clapper who briefed Obama on the Flynn–Kislyak calls (pdf). Clapper, however, denied this to Congress.

                                      1. Strzok Intervention

                                      On Jan. 4, the FBI was already in the process of closing Flynn’s case. But the bureau’s counterintelligence operations head at the time, Peter Strzok, scrambled to keep it open, noting that the “7th floor,” meaning the FBI’s top leadership, was involved.

                                      1. No Mention of Pence

                                      During the interview, the agents didn’t ask Flynn about what he did or didn’t tell Pence—an unusual approach if the point, as Comey said, was to find out why Flynn hadn’t “been candid” with Pence. The FBI, in fact, had no idea what Flynn did or didn’t tell Pence.

                                      1. Threat to Son

                                      According to Flynn’s declaration, the Covington lawyers told him that if he didn’t plead, the prosecutors would charge his son (who had a four-month-old baby at the time) with a FARA violation, because the son worked for Flynn’s firm and was involved in the Turkey project. If he did plead, however, his son “would be left in peace,” Flynn said.

                                      The pressure campaign, it seems, was also reflected in media leaks.

                                      “If the elder Flynn is willing to cooperate with investigators in order to help his son … it could also change his own fate, potentially limiting any legal consequences,” NBC News reported on Nov. 5, 2017, referring to “sources familiar with the investigation.”

                                      “To twist the father’s arm with regard to his child is a pretty low thing to do,” Ruskin commented.

                                      1. Unacceptable Plea

                                      Not only could Sullivan not have accepted Flynn’s plea before determining materiality, there’s evidence he was in fact required to refuse it.

                                      Rule 11 requires the court to “determine that the plea is voluntary and did not result from force, threats, or promises (other than promises in a plea agreement).”

                                      In Flynn’s case, there actually was a threat and a promise left out of the deal—the “unofficial understanding” that his son was “unlikely” to be charged if Flynn cooperated.

                                      There's another 80 or so...

                                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • George KG Offline
                                        George KG Offline
                                        George K
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #170

                                        DOJ Just Disclosed ‘Explosive’ Handwritten Notes From Peter Strzok To Michael Flynn’s Defense Team

                                        According to a letter to the federal court overseeing Flynn’s trial sent on behalf of acting U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia Michael Sherwin, the new disclosures include handwritten notes from fired former Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI) official Peter Strzok. The notes are believed to have been written in early January of 2017 at the same time that the FBI suddenly re-opened its criminal investigation of Flynn despite the fact that the FBI had filed to find any “derogatory” information against Flynn during the course of its multi-month investigation of him during and after the 2016 presidential campaign.

                                        Because the exculpatory evidence was filed pursuant to a previous protective order from the judge in the case, the handwritten notes themselves have not yet been made publicly available. It is not known when, or if, the judge in the case will ever allow the newly revealed evidence exonerating Flynn to be publicly disclosed.

                                        “What DOJ disclosed today is as explosive as anything that’s come out in Flynn’s case,” a source with direct knowledge of the content of Strzok’s handwritten notes told The Federalist on Tuesday. Earlier this year, DOJ disclosed handwritten documents from Bill Priestap, who previously served as the FBI’s top counterintelligence official, fretting that the FBI investigation against Flynn was designed to “to get him to lie so we can prosecute him or get him fired.” Following those and other disclosures exonerating Flynn, DOJ moved to dismiss the charges against him.

                                        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • George KG Offline
                                          George KG Offline
                                          George K
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #171

                                          Appellate court rules that DOJ can drop the case.

                                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

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