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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Piano shopping...

Piano shopping...

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  • KlausK Offline
    KlausK Offline
    Klaus
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    We want to replace the Kawai upright we have in our living room by something better. The Kawai is too loud (it's 51" / 130cm) for that room, and the sound is too squishy.

    I was thinking something in the 47"/120cm range, with better quality. I'm open to used pianos, too.

    I tested a few pianos today. I can preclude the entire Yamaha and Kawai range of upright pianos. One piano I liked is the Schimmel K122. I also tried a couple of Sauter pianos, but I found them to be too bright.

    Next I want to try the Bechstein brands, Bechstein and Hoffmann. The best upright I ever played was a Bechstein Concert 8, but that one's both too big and too expensive. Bösendorfer and Steinway also make upright pianos that blow away many grand pianos, but I don't want to spend 40K on an upright piano.

    Other brands I want to try: Blüthner, used Ibach (which used to be a high quality German brand), Förster, Grotrian, Steingräber.

    Thoughts? What's the best upright one can get, say, for 15 or 20 grand at most?

    1 Reply Last reply
    • 89th8 Offline
      89th8 Offline
      89th
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      @LuFins-Dad doesn't know as much as me on the topic, so I want to let him handle this one for practice.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • JollyJ Offline
        JollyJ Offline
        Jolly
        wrote on last edited by Jolly
        #3

        They're buggy, but add a used 48" Petrof to your list.

        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

        1 Reply Last reply
        • LuFins DadL Offline
          LuFins DadL Offline
          LuFins Dad
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          The Schimmel is nice. I haven't played a Seiler in a while, but I recall liking those as well...

          Out of curiosity, did you try the Yamaha YUS series? Availability might be very limited.

          The Brad

          KlausK 1 Reply Last reply
          • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

            The Schimmel is nice. I haven't played a Seiler in a while, but I recall liking those as well...

            Out of curiosity, did you try the Yamaha YUS series? Availability might be very limited.

            KlausK Offline
            KlausK Offline
            Klaus
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            @lufins-dad said in Piano shopping...:

            Out of curiosity, did you try the Yamaha YUS series? Availability might be very limited.

            Tried one today, actually. It was a nice piano, but couldn't compete with the Schimmel. I think the market here is a little different. I believe most Americans buy a grand piano for that kind of money. Over here, people are more likely to prefer a high quality upright, hence dealerships have plenty of them.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ Offline
              jon-nycJ Offline
              jon-nyc
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              David who you met at Jerry’s piano party has a grotrian upright and it is lovely.

              Only non-witches get due process.

              • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
              89th8 1 Reply Last reply
              • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                David who you met at Jerry’s piano party has a grotrian upright and it is lovely.

                89th8 Offline
                89th8 Offline
                89th
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                @jon-nyc said in Piano shopping...:

                David who you met at Jerry’s piano party has a grotrian upright and it is lovely.

                This is a family forum, dude.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ Offline
                  jon-nycJ Offline
                  jon-nyc
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Hey man, I call ‘em as I see ‘em.

                  Only non-witches get due process.

                  • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • KlausK Offline
                    KlausK Offline
                    Klaus
                    wrote on last edited by Klaus
                    #9

                    OK, I've now boiled it down to two pianos.

                    It's either going to be a 2009 Bechstein Classic 124, or a 2012 Grotrian Classic 124.

                    I like the sound of the Grotrian a little better - it has a cleaner more delicate tone - but the Bechstein would be significantly cheaper, and it's also a killer piano. My brain says Bechstein but my gut says Grotrian.

                    This has been an interesting piano search, with some surprises:

                    • I tried two August Förster pianos, which are often described as a kind of hidden gem. They were a total disappointment to me. These weren't obsessively bad pianos, but nothing special either.

                    • Steingräber pianos are really nice, but I don't understand why they charge significantly more than other premium makers.

                    • The lower-prized Bechstein pianos ("Academy") are nice pianos, but not nearly in the same league as the "full" Bechstein line. Their second line, Hoffmann, is nice, but not necessarily better than a good Yamaha, for instance.

                    • Biggest surprise: Petrof. I remember trying a couple of Petrofs a decade ago, and I wasn't impressed at all. Very unrefined sound and feel. But the Petrof 131 I tried today was phenomenal at that prize point. It's not the kind of sound I was looking for, but for less than 15K or so you get a quality that isn't quite at the same level but amazingly close to the likes of the big Bösendorfer or Bechstein uprights, which are in the 40K region. A real powerhouse.

                    • Yamaha's upright range doesn't have anything that even remotely plays in the same league as Grotrian/Bechstein/Bösendorfer.

                    • I stumbled upon a couple of Ibachs. I can now see why they went bankrupt.

                    AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
                    • KlausK Klaus

                      OK, I've now boiled it down to two pianos.

                      It's either going to be a 2009 Bechstein Classic 124, or a 2012 Grotrian Classic 124.

                      I like the sound of the Grotrian a little better - it has a cleaner more delicate tone - but the Bechstein would be significantly cheaper, and it's also a killer piano. My brain says Bechstein but my gut says Grotrian.

                      This has been an interesting piano search, with some surprises:

                      • I tried two August Förster pianos, which are often described as a kind of hidden gem. They were a total disappointment to me. These weren't obsessively bad pianos, but nothing special either.

                      • Steingräber pianos are really nice, but I don't understand why they charge significantly more than other premium makers.

                      • The lower-prized Bechstein pianos ("Academy") are nice pianos, but not nearly in the same league as the "full" Bechstein line. Their second line, Hoffmann, is nice, but not necessarily better than a good Yamaha, for instance.

                      • Biggest surprise: Petrof. I remember trying a couple of Petrofs a decade ago, and I wasn't impressed at all. Very unrefined sound and feel. But the Petrof 131 I tried today was phenomenal at that prize point. It's not the kind of sound I was looking for, but for less than 15K or so you get a quality that isn't quite at the same level but amazingly close to the likes of the big Bösendorfer or Bechstein uprights, which are in the 40K region. A real powerhouse.

                      • Yamaha's upright range doesn't have anything that even remotely plays in the same league as Grotrian/Bechstein/Bösendorfer.

                      • I stumbled upon a couple of Ibachs. I can now see why they went bankrupt.

                      AxtremusA Offline
                      AxtremusA Offline
                      Axtremus
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      @klaus said in Piano shopping...:

                      OK, I've now boiled it down to two pianos.

                      It's either going to be a 2009 Bechstein Classic 124, or a 2012 Grotrian Classic 124.

                      I like the sound of the Grotrian a little better - it has a cleaner more delicate tone - but the Bechstein would be significantly cheaper, and it's also a killer piano. My brain says Bechstein but my gut says Grotrian.

                      I suspect affordability is not really an issue for you in this case, so go with your gut. Your brain is smart enough to amortize the price difference over the N number of years you expect to hear the piano and come up with a "it's only x Euro per day" argument to rationalize the gut's choice. 🙂

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • jon-nycJ Offline
                        jon-nycJ Offline
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        Interesting takes, Klaus.

                        I’m with Ax on this.

                        Only non-witches get due process.

                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • KlausK Offline
                          KlausK Offline
                          Klaus
                          wrote on last edited by Klaus
                          #12

                          It's about a 4K prize difference between the Bechstein and the Grotrian. I've managed to rationalize about half of that prize difference with considerations that are still somewhat rational (age of the instruments, amount of required prep work, differences in list prize when new etc.). For the remaining 2K, I'd have to resort Orwellian self-deception measures. I'll read the "How many fingers am I holding up" scene again for some inspiration.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • MikM Offline
                            MikM Offline
                            Mik
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            For 2K get the one that speaks to you.

                            “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                            markM 1 Reply Last reply
                            • MikM Mik

                              For 2K get the one that speaks to you.

                              markM Offline
                              markM Offline
                              mark
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              @mik said in Piano shopping...:

                              For 2K get the one that speaks to you.

                              I agree.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • KlausK Offline
                                KlausK Offline
                                Klaus
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                OK, the dealer managed to bridge another 1K of the gap, and I pulled the trigger.

                                This is the baby.

                                327937a5-e4de-4813-bc35-3b237f4d0bf1-image.png

                                LuFins DadL F 2 Replies Last reply
                                • AxtremusA Offline
                                  AxtremusA Offline
                                  Axtremus
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  Next, you are expected to post piano moving videos and your performance recorded with that piano. Congratulations! 🙂

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • MikM Offline
                                    MikM Offline
                                    Mik
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    Beautiful. Enjoy!!!

                                    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • KlausK Klaus

                                      OK, the dealer managed to bridge another 1K of the gap, and I pulled the trigger.

                                      This is the baby.

                                      327937a5-e4de-4813-bc35-3b237f4d0bf1-image.png

                                      LuFins DadL Offline
                                      LuFins DadL Offline
                                      LuFins Dad
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      @klaus said in Piano shopping...:

                                      OK, the dealer managed to bridge another 1K of the gap, and I pulled the trigger.

                                      This is the baby.

                                      327937a5-e4de-4813-bc35-3b237f4d0bf1-image.png

                                      Nice!

                                      The Brad

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • markM Offline
                                        markM Offline
                                        mark
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        Beautiful! Congratulations.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • George KG Offline
                                          George KG Offline
                                          George K
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          Very nice, @Klaus !

                                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

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