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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine."

"You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine."

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  • JollyJ Offline
    JollyJ Offline
    Jolly
    wrote on last edited by
    #155

    Here's what your missing...Above all, Trump is a businessman. What figures very prominently in Trump's decision tree?

    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

    1 Reply Last reply
    • 89th8 Offline
      89th8 Offline
      89th
      wrote on last edited by
      #156

      How much cash he can save in bankruptcy? 😂

      JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
      • X xenon

        @Jolly said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":

        @xenon said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":

        @Jolly what was the original goalpost?

        He has no credibility because he creates confusion. He's telling other people to wear masks one day, but refuses to himself. How does that make sense?

        What, specifically, should have been earlier?

        If you read carefully - the conversation of "what specifically should have been done earlier" was not driven by me.

        I chimed in with this note:

        I'll chime in here with the preface that my key criticism of Trump is that he's just not intellectually up to the job of governing. I also often argue that the role of the President in governing the U.S. is much more limited than people act like it is.

        It's interesting that the argument now is - "well, the President actually can't do much here." Convenient - but I don't disagree that much. Powers to carry out specific actions are limited, but there is massive opportunity and responsibility to rally the country.

        For me the issue has always been he makes the situation worse because he's a poor thinker. I agree that the role of the executive is smaller than people act like it is. And the ventilator example is a great example here. Even if some other executive acted faster than Trump here and got more ventilators early - the changing circumstances / understanding can dwarf any effect of a specific action by the Pres. (i.e., the worst case for ventilator need never materialized)

        Now - where the President does have influence is being a voice to rally action and consensus. Creating clarity on important initiatives, and providing clarity on the national path forward (even with competing reasonable alternatives).

        At that he fails miserably. He releases guidelines to open, then completely abandons them and calls for "LIBERATE!". He's onboard with masks when the CDC recommends them - then never mentions them again.

        Let me ask you Jolly. Do you wish he would wear a mask in a setting where everyone else is wearing a mask? Do you think that would have even a marginal effect on their acceptability and use?

        There's an event tomorrow at Ford where he's been asked to wear a mask. I'll be the first to applaud him if he finally does.

        89th8 Offline
        89th8 Offline
        89th
        wrote on last edited by
        #157

        @xenon said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":

        Now - where the President does have influence is being a voice to rally action and consensus. Creating clarity on important initiatives, and providing clarity on the national path forward (even with competing reasonable alternatives).

        At that he fails miserably. He releases guidelines to open, then completely abandons them and calls for "LIBERATE!". He's onboard with masks when the CDC recommends them - then never mentions them again.

        Let me ask you Jolly. Do you wish he would wear a mask in a setting where everyone else is wearing a mask?

        Good analysis and summary @xenon 👍

        taiwan_girlT 1 Reply Last reply
        • 89th8 89th

          @xenon said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":

          Now - where the President does have influence is being a voice to rally action and consensus. Creating clarity on important initiatives, and providing clarity on the national path forward (even with competing reasonable alternatives).

          At that he fails miserably. He releases guidelines to open, then completely abandons them and calls for "LIBERATE!". He's onboard with masks when the CDC recommends them - then never mentions them again.

          Let me ask you Jolly. Do you wish he would wear a mask in a setting where everyone else is wearing a mask?

          Good analysis and summary @xenon 👍

          taiwan_girlT Offline
          taiwan_girlT Offline
          taiwan_girl
          wrote on last edited by
          #158

          @89th said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":

          @xenon said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":

          Now - where the President does have influence is being a voice to rally action and consensus. Creating clarity on important initiatives, and providing clarity on the national path forward (even with competing reasonable alternatives).

          At that he fails miserably. He releases guidelines to open, then completely abandons them and calls for "LIBERATE!". He's onboard with masks when the CDC recommends them - then never mentions them again.

          Let me ask you Jolly. Do you wish he would wear a mask in a setting where everyone else is wearing a mask?

          Good analysis and summary @xenon 👍

          I agree with 89 and Xenon. I remember saying something similar on the old forum board that the President was like a cheerleader.

          I disagree with Jolly that what President Trump (or any president) actions have no impact on people that follow him. I think it is just the opposite. If President Trump said that it was important to wear a mask, I would guess that 50% of the people who are against it would suddenly find a reason to support it.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • LarryL Offline
            LarryL Offline
            Larry
            wrote on last edited by
            #159

            Xenon, don't take the things I say personally. I say what's on my mind, and some of it is just meant to elicit a chuckle or two. That's the nature of the forum, we each have our own personalities, but we are all friends and mean no harm. That goes for you too, 89th. As for Sock, he hasn't mattered since he came on here after a long absence to use everyone and to become Cosmored II.

            That said, you and 89th both would be taken more serious on this matter if you would stop trying to justify your bias against Trump by trying to pass your opinions off as reasoned logic. Most of us are smart enough to see through it, so to continue trying to justify it as reasoned thought insults our intelligence.

            I have spent my entire life running business. I've done quite well at it, because I am a leader. As a leader, I recognize a follower when I see one. If Obama had been president during this and had done item by item exactly the same things Trump has done, both of you guys would be praising his leadership and wisdom. Don't say you wouldn't, because I know better.

            This issue matters, not because it shows a negative or a positive about Trump. It matters because it is becoming a battle line between those who want to destroy our nation and those who want to save it. Whether Trump wears a mask or not is not important. That violent criminals are being turned loose from prison under the guise of "protecting them from the virus" only to have them commit more crimes against innocent people and you end up with one of them stabbing a nother man nearly to death as he hijacked his car, the 4th car he had stolen in a matter of a couple of weeks, be given a ticket and turned loose on the same day that a business owner was arrested and taken to jail for daring to open his gym for business... that's what's important.

            Both you and 89th focus on your dislike of what the man says and how he says it. That's following. Look at results. Then look at the results of his political opposition. The simple truth is, if the current Democrat party were to get in charge of government again our nation is history. That is a stone cold fact. Leaders can see this. Followers are busy biting his ankles.

            You and 89th Re biting his ankles.

            89th8 1 Reply Last reply
            • 89th8 89th

              How much cash he can save in bankruptcy? 😂

              JollyJ Offline
              JollyJ Offline
              Jolly
              wrote on last edited by
              #160

              @89th said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":

              How much cash he can save in bankruptcy? 😂

              If you can't answer the question, you play silly booger?

              “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

              1 Reply Last reply
              • LarryL Larry

                Xenon, don't take the things I say personally. I say what's on my mind, and some of it is just meant to elicit a chuckle or two. That's the nature of the forum, we each have our own personalities, but we are all friends and mean no harm. That goes for you too, 89th. As for Sock, he hasn't mattered since he came on here after a long absence to use everyone and to become Cosmored II.

                That said, you and 89th both would be taken more serious on this matter if you would stop trying to justify your bias against Trump by trying to pass your opinions off as reasoned logic. Most of us are smart enough to see through it, so to continue trying to justify it as reasoned thought insults our intelligence.

                I have spent my entire life running business. I've done quite well at it, because I am a leader. As a leader, I recognize a follower when I see one. If Obama had been president during this and had done item by item exactly the same things Trump has done, both of you guys would be praising his leadership and wisdom. Don't say you wouldn't, because I know better.

                This issue matters, not because it shows a negative or a positive about Trump. It matters because it is becoming a battle line between those who want to destroy our nation and those who want to save it. Whether Trump wears a mask or not is not important. That violent criminals are being turned loose from prison under the guise of "protecting them from the virus" only to have them commit more crimes against innocent people and you end up with one of them stabbing a nother man nearly to death as he hijacked his car, the 4th car he had stolen in a matter of a couple of weeks, be given a ticket and turned loose on the same day that a business owner was arrested and taken to jail for daring to open his gym for business... that's what's important.

                Both you and 89th focus on your dislike of what the man says and how he says it. That's following. Look at results. Then look at the results of his political opposition. The simple truth is, if the current Democrat party were to get in charge of government again our nation is history. That is a stone cold fact. Leaders can see this. Followers are busy biting his ankles.

                You and 89th Re biting his ankles.

                89th8 Offline
                89th8 Offline
                89th
                wrote on last edited by
                #161

                @Larry said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":

                If Obama had been president during this and had done item by item exactly the same things Trump has done, both of you guys would be praising his leadership and wisdom.

                This is funny, and you probably won’t believe me but I opened this thread just now and I honestly was about to ask the following question so I’ll still ask it anyway:

                Here’s a good test. If it wasn’t President Trump but President Hillary Clinton in the office and the EXACT same everything happened, would you be saying the same thing about her handling of the pandemic? I know I would.

                89th8 1 Reply Last reply
                • X Offline
                  X Offline
                  xenon
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #162

                  @Larry I was actually more curious than offended. Very few people in this world have the ability to personally offend me. So no sweat.

                  I have no party affiliation. On balance I’d probably score more on the conservative side.

                  I can sympathize with people who want to take a wrecking ball approach to the government - so I can see the appeal of Trump. (I think lots of parts of the U.S. need a tear down / rebuild)

                  Without getting into a lengthy diatribe - I’ll just say I disagree with you for reasons that probably belong in a different thread.

                  I’ve said it a bajillion times, most of the real issues that face this country need to be solved by congress and there’s too much obsession with the power of the Presidency.

                  The President should also embody the values we’d want in American citizens. He’s the head of a social and cultural group.

                  89th8 1 Reply Last reply
                  • X Offline
                    X Offline
                    xenon
                    wrote on last edited by xenon
                    #163

                    It sounds dorky, but I wanted to move to the U.S. since I was a kid. The values and ideals appealed to me.

                    I can’t stand people who focus on grievances - and that’s all Trump does. (Not a huge Democrat fan at the moment either)

                    This guy does not stand for the values that I was drawn to.

                    This guy acts like the U.S. is the only country that has issues and everyone is laughing at us.

                    CopperC 1 Reply Last reply
                    • AxtremusA Away
                      AxtremusA Away
                      Axtremus
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #164

                      This seems like a good place to post this: The Dunning-Kruger Effect

                      The Dunning-Kruger Effect: Why Incompetence Begets Confidence

                      The Dunning-Kruger effect, coined by the psychologists David Dunning and Justin Kruger in 1999, is a cognitive bias in which poor performers greatly overestimate their abilities. Dunning and Kruger’s research shows that underperforming individuals “reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the ability to realize it.” This incompetence, in turn, leads them to “hold inflated views of their performance and ability.”

                      On Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect .

                      JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                      • X xenon

                        @Larry I was actually more curious than offended. Very few people in this world have the ability to personally offend me. So no sweat.

                        I have no party affiliation. On balance I’d probably score more on the conservative side.

                        I can sympathize with people who want to take a wrecking ball approach to the government - so I can see the appeal of Trump. (I think lots of parts of the U.S. need a tear down / rebuild)

                        Without getting into a lengthy diatribe - I’ll just say I disagree with you for reasons that probably belong in a different thread.

                        I’ve said it a bajillion times, most of the real issues that face this country need to be solved by congress and there’s too much obsession with the power of the Presidency.

                        The President should also embody the values we’d want in American citizens. He’s the head of a social and cultural group.

                        89th8 Offline
                        89th8 Offline
                        89th
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #165

                        @xenon said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":

                        I’ve said it a bajillion times, most of the real issues that face this country need to be solved by congress and there’s too much obsession with the power of the Presidency.

                        The President should also embody the values we’d want in American citizens. He’s the head of a social and cultural group.

                        Well said. As much as Congress is t3h sux0rs, I've also often thought the same thing as you.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • AxtremusA Axtremus

                          This seems like a good place to post this: The Dunning-Kruger Effect

                          The Dunning-Kruger Effect: Why Incompetence Begets Confidence

                          The Dunning-Kruger effect, coined by the psychologists David Dunning and Justin Kruger in 1999, is a cognitive bias in which poor performers greatly overestimate their abilities. Dunning and Kruger’s research shows that underperforming individuals “reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the ability to realize it.” This incompetence, in turn, leads them to “hold inflated views of their performance and ability.”

                          On Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect .

                          JollyJ Offline
                          JollyJ Offline
                          Jolly
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #166

                          @Axtremus said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":

                          This seems like a good place to post this: The Dunning-Kruger Effect

                          The Dunning-Kruger Effect: Why Incompetence Begets Confidence

                          The Dunning-Kruger effect, coined by the psychologists David Dunning and Justin Kruger in 1999, is a cognitive bias in which poor performers greatly overestimate their abilities. Dunning and Kruger’s research shows that underperforming individuals “reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the ability to realize it.” This incompetence, in turn, leads them to “hold inflated views of their performance and ability.”

                          On Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect .

                          @Axtremus said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":

                          This seems like a good place to post this: The Dunning-Kruger Effect

                          The Dunning-Kruger Effect: Why Incompetence Begets Confidence

                          The Dunning-Kruger effect, coined by the psychologists David Dunning and Justin Kruger in 1999, is a cognitive bias in which poor performers greatly overestimate their abilities. Dunning and Kruger’s research shows that underperforming individuals “reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the ability to realize it.” This incompetence, in turn, leads them to “hold inflated views of their performance and ability.”

                          On Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect .

                          Yep, best economy in many decades. Lowest black unemployment ever. Highest stock market ever. First gains in real income in years. Embassy back in Jerusalem. Large middle-class tax cut. First Step act. Creation of the Space Force. The defeat of ISIS. Emphasis on border security. Lowest Hispanic unemployment in history. Right to Try passed. Energy independent or close to it. Keystone Pipeline. Renegotiation of NAFTA. And judges...Lots of judges. 👍

                          I could go on, but not bad for a poor performer in three years, all the while battling an illegal special counsel probe and undergoing a rugged impeachment.

                          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                          taiwan_girlT 1 Reply Last reply
                          • JollyJ Jolly

                            @Axtremus said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":

                            This seems like a good place to post this: The Dunning-Kruger Effect

                            The Dunning-Kruger Effect: Why Incompetence Begets Confidence

                            The Dunning-Kruger effect, coined by the psychologists David Dunning and Justin Kruger in 1999, is a cognitive bias in which poor performers greatly overestimate their abilities. Dunning and Kruger’s research shows that underperforming individuals “reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the ability to realize it.” This incompetence, in turn, leads them to “hold inflated views of their performance and ability.”

                            On Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect .

                            @Axtremus said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":

                            This seems like a good place to post this: The Dunning-Kruger Effect

                            The Dunning-Kruger Effect: Why Incompetence Begets Confidence

                            The Dunning-Kruger effect, coined by the psychologists David Dunning and Justin Kruger in 1999, is a cognitive bias in which poor performers greatly overestimate their abilities. Dunning and Kruger’s research shows that underperforming individuals “reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the ability to realize it.” This incompetence, in turn, leads them to “hold inflated views of their performance and ability.”

                            On Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect .

                            Yep, best economy in many decades. Lowest black unemployment ever. Highest stock market ever. First gains in real income in years. Embassy back in Jerusalem. Large middle-class tax cut. First Step act. Creation of the Space Force. The defeat of ISIS. Emphasis on border security. Lowest Hispanic unemployment in history. Right to Try passed. Energy independent or close to it. Keystone Pipeline. Renegotiation of NAFTA. And judges...Lots of judges. 👍

                            I could go on, but not bad for a poor performer in three years, all the while battling an illegal special counsel probe and undergoing a rugged impeachment.

                            taiwan_girlT Offline
                            taiwan_girlT Offline
                            taiwan_girl
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #167

                            @Jolly

                            I had a long discussion with Horace in the old forum board, but do you really think that the economy is strictly due to President Trump? I did not hear you saying how good President Obama did with stock market employment, etc. were pretty good during his term.

                            Most numerical measures at 40 months of their presidency are better for President Obama than for President Trump.

                            at this point in their presidents term, who had the better return at the stock market?
                            President Trump or President Obama?

                            at this point in their presidents term, who had the better positive change in unemployment?
                            President Trump or President Obama?

                            Now I realize that the reply will be "because Corona!!" And that is true, but............

                            My point is this - if a leader (President Trump, President Obama, President Bush, President Clinton, etc) is going to talk about how good things are and take credit when things are going well, they also have to step up and take responsibility when things are not going well.

                            You cannot say - economy was great until Jan 2020. That is ONLY because of me. Economy doing bad now - that NOT because of me.

                            I do add the President Trump is not alone like this. Probably EVERY world leader acts the same. President Obama took too much credit when things went well and was quick to blame others when it did not go so well.

                            LarryL 1 Reply Last reply
                            • Doctor PhibesD Offline
                              Doctor PhibesD Offline
                              Doctor Phibes
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #168

                              Politicians are basically salesmen pretending to be lawyers and acting like whores. Three of the finest professions in the world, combined.

                              I was only joking

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • JollyJ Offline
                                JollyJ Offline
                                Jolly
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #169

                                Then there is no reason to elect or change leaders of any country, is it? We're all on autopilot and nothing ever makes a difference.

                                “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                taiwan_girlT Doctor PhibesD 2 Replies Last reply
                                • JollyJ Jolly

                                  Then there is no reason to elect or change leaders of any country, is it? We're all on autopilot and nothing ever makes a difference.

                                  taiwan_girlT Offline
                                  taiwan_girlT Offline
                                  taiwan_girl
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #170

                                  @Jolly said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":

                                  Then there is no reason to elect or change leaders of any country, is it? We're all on autopilot and nothing ever makes a difference.

                                  Let me ask you, do you think President Obama did a good job with the economy?

                                  JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                                    @Jolly said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":

                                    Then there is no reason to elect or change leaders of any country, is it? We're all on autopilot and nothing ever makes a difference.

                                    Let me ask you, do you think President Obama did a good job with the economy?

                                    JollyJ Offline
                                    JollyJ Offline
                                    Jolly
                                    wrote on last edited by Jolly
                                    #171

                                    @taiwan_girl said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":

                                    @Jolly said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":

                                    Then there is no reason to elect or change leaders of any country, is it? We're all on autopilot and nothing ever makes a difference.

                                    Let me ask you, do you think President Obama did a good job with the economy?

                                    I think Mr. Obama did a good job trying to sink 1/7 of it.

                                    But in your scenario, it doesn't matter...Obama has little or no effect.

                                    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                    taiwan_girlT 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • JollyJ Jolly

                                      Then there is no reason to elect or change leaders of any country, is it? We're all on autopilot and nothing ever makes a difference.

                                      Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                      Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                      Doctor Phibes
                                      wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
                                      #172

                                      @Jolly said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":

                                      Then there is no reason to elect or change leaders of any country, is it? We're all on autopilot and nothing ever makes a difference.

                                      The main reason to regularly change leaders is to stop them from becoming dictators. We've all seen examples of idealistic people becoming monsters, and in democracies there's a point at which you say of even the best leaders, 'Stick a fork in his ass, he's done'.

                                      There's also a well known saying about diapers and politicians being changed for the same reason.

                                      I was only joking

                                      JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                      • X xenon

                                        It sounds dorky, but I wanted to move to the U.S. since I was a kid. The values and ideals appealed to me.

                                        I can’t stand people who focus on grievances - and that’s all Trump does. (Not a huge Democrat fan at the moment either)

                                        This guy does not stand for the values that I was drawn to.

                                        This guy acts like the U.S. is the only country that has issues and everyone is laughing at us.

                                        CopperC Offline
                                        CopperC Offline
                                        Copper
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #173

                                        @xenon said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":

                                        I can’t stand people who focus on grievances - and that’s all Trump does.

                                        You're thinking of Jimmy Carter.

                                        Mr. Trump spreads sunshine.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                                          @Jolly

                                          I had a long discussion with Horace in the old forum board, but do you really think that the economy is strictly due to President Trump? I did not hear you saying how good President Obama did with stock market employment, etc. were pretty good during his term.

                                          Most numerical measures at 40 months of their presidency are better for President Obama than for President Trump.

                                          at this point in their presidents term, who had the better return at the stock market?
                                          President Trump or President Obama?

                                          at this point in their presidents term, who had the better positive change in unemployment?
                                          President Trump or President Obama?

                                          Now I realize that the reply will be "because Corona!!" And that is true, but............

                                          My point is this - if a leader (President Trump, President Obama, President Bush, President Clinton, etc) is going to talk about how good things are and take credit when things are going well, they also have to step up and take responsibility when things are not going well.

                                          You cannot say - economy was great until Jan 2020. That is ONLY because of me. Economy doing bad now - that NOT because of me.

                                          I do add the President Trump is not alone like this. Probably EVERY world leader acts the same. President Obama took too much credit when things went well and was quick to blame others when it did not go so well.

                                          LarryL Offline
                                          LarryL Offline
                                          Larry
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #174

                                          @taiwan_girl said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":

                                          @Jolly

                                          I had a long discussion with Horace in the old forum board, but do you really think that the economy is strictly due to President Trump? I did not hear you saying how good President Obama did with stock market employment, etc. were pretty good during his term.

                                          Most numerical measures at 40 months of their presidency are better for President Obama than for President Trump.

                                          at this point in their presidents term, who had the better return at the stock market?
                                          President Trump or President Obama?

                                          at this point in their presidents term, who had the better positive change in unemployment?
                                          President Trump or President Obama?

                                          Now I realize that the reply will be "because Corona!!" And that is true, but............

                                          My point is this - if a leader (President Trump, President Obama, President Bush, President Clinton, etc) is going to talk about how good things are and take credit when things are going well, they also have to step up and take responsibility when things are not going well.

                                          You cannot say - economy was great until Jan 2020. That is ONLY because of me. Economy doing bad now - that NOT because of me.

                                          I do add the President Trump is not alone like this. Probably EVERY world leader acts the same. President Obama took too much credit when things went well and was quick to blame others when it did not go so well.

                                          The notion that presidents don't have much influence on the economy is a fallacy that's put forth by the party that's in the White House when the economy is not doing well. It can be either party making the claim, but it's usually democrats because usually the economy isn't doing well when a Democrat is in the White House.

                                          But it's not true. Presidents have a major impact on how the economy performs. As for the argument that they should accept blame when it's bad if they're going to take credit when it's good... it's not that simple. Good or bad depends on why. If the reason for a downturn is due to something out of his control, why should a president take the blame for it?

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