The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread
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I found this article, which explains what it would take a central authority to take over Bitcoin, interesting.
https://braiins.com/blog/how-much-would-it-cost-to-51-attack-bitcoin
I wondered if Jeff Bezos could take over Bitcoin if he'd use the whole Amazon cloud computing stuff exclusively for that purpose. From what I understand, it wouldn't work since normal computers, even many of them, and even millions of modern graphics cards, are too slow to compete with the special mining hardware.
Also, even if a central authority would control Bitcoin for a while with a 51% attack, the damage would be somewhat limited:
An attacker that controls more than 50% of the network's computing power can, for the time that he is in control, exclude and modify the ordering of transactions. This allows him to:
Reverse transactions that he sends while he's in control. This has the potential to double-spend transactions that previously had already been seen in the block chain, affecting all coins that share a history with the reversed transaction
Reverse confirmations for any transaction that had previously been seen in the block chain while he’s in control.
Prevent some or all transactions from gaining any confirmations
Prevent some or all other miners from mining any valid blocks
The attacker can't:Reverse other people's transactions without their cooperation (unless their coin history has been affected by a double-spend)
Prevent transactions from being sent at all (they'll show as 0/unconfirmed)
Change the number of coins generated per block
Create coins out of thin air
Send coins that never belonged to him -
@klaus said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
@george-k said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
@taiwan_girl said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
it seems like the Holland tulip craze. People bidding up the price on something that does not have a real value behind it.
That's my understanding as well.
But US dollar and other fiat currencies have no value behind it either.
I think yes and no.
There is pretty much zero chance that the US government will say that US dollars are not acceptable. To me, that means that it has some value and will continue to have some value. I know that next week, next year, next century, I can go into a store and buy something with US dollars.
But look at China, they recently pretty much said the opposite about crypto currency. Maybe I had the equivalent of $1 MM USD in crypto and live in China. All of sudden, I cannot use it. To me, that means that it has no real value.
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@taiwan_girl said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
There is pretty much zero chance that the US government will say that US dollars are not acceptable. To me, that means that it has some value and will continue to have some value. I know that next week, next year, next century, I can go into a store and buy something with US dollars.
I don't disagree with what you wrote, but there's a non-zero risk of hyperinflation and a non-zero risk of countries/systems disappearing.
I agree that it may very well be the case that Bitcoin ceases to exist, but one can be certain that there can be no inflation - except for the completely predictable mining until 2140 or so -, that it will survive the downfall of countries, and that there is no (known) way of manipulation.
I've only invested an amount of money where I won't cry when it's gone. It's certainly a quite risky endeavour at this point. But I do also see a lot of opportunity in the idea. When you look at the more advanced crypto currency concepts such as "smart contracts", then it gets really interesting (Ethereum is a first step in that direction). It certainly has the potential to transform the way we do business.
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Meanwhile, my Bitcoin investment is 200 Euros down
But I guess I need to adopt a new point of view: I still have just as much because I still have the same amount of Bitcoin. It just happens that the (mostly irrelevant) exchange rate to the Euro fluctuates a little
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Which exchange do you all use? And how do you decide on which Cryptos to put some money into? It seems to me that while you would want to put half or most of your investments into Bitcoin, Etherium, and the other top 4-5, would it also make sense to invest small amounts into a lot of the smaller coins and see what happens?
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I'm diving a little deeper into the technology.
I've read and watched a lot of material, and most of it, especially all the videos and tutorials that claim to explain it in "simple words" or something, are a complete waste of time.
If you are willing to invest 90 minutes of your time to understand Blockchain stuff, I can highly recommend this video. You won't see any code or any other "techy" stuff in the first 90 minutes. This lecturer is excellent.
Link to video -
@klaus said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
I'm diving a little deeper into the technology.
I've read and watched a lot of material, and most of it, especially all the videos and tutorials that claim to explain it in "simple words" or something, are a complete waste of time.
If you are willing to invest 90 minutes of your time to understand Blockchain stuff, I can highly recommend this video. You won't see any code or any other "techy" stuff in the first 90 minutes. This lecturer is excellent.
Link to videoThanks! I actually opened a Coinbase account today. I’m not going to invest much money, but will play with it a little.
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@klaus said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
that there is no (known) way of manipulation.
Of course there is, just get a certain percentage of the miners to act in tandem....
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@lufins-dad said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
Which exchange do you all use? And how do you decide on which Cryptos to put some money into? It seems to me that while you would want to put half or most of your investments into Bitcoin, Etherium, and the other top 4-5, would it also make sense to invest small amounts into a lot of the smaller coins and see what happens?
I use Coinbase (I used to use Binance and Trust Wallet, but Coinbase makes it way more user friendly). Anyway, I have about 6 coins. 50% is in ETH, maybe 15% in BTC, the rest is spread across a few of the other coins, most that are coins based on the ETH network.
Keep in mind less than 1% of my investment portfolio is in crypto, but figured I'd dip my toe in the water. Who knows, one of the coins might go to the moon. I do own 4 million SHIBA INU coins, so if we can get that to $1.00...
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@jon-nyc said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
@klaus said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
that there is no (known) way of manipulation.
Of course there is, just get a certain percentage of the miners to act in tandem....
Yes, the 51% attack. But that would be pretty difficult to pull off, even for a government. And even then, it's somewhat limited what one can do even when one controls the 51%. For instance, you still couldn't just steal other people's money.
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@klaus said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
@jon-nyc said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
@klaus said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
that there is no (known) way of manipulation.
Of course there is, just get a certain percentage of the miners to act in tandem....
Yes, the 51% attack. But that would be pretty difficult to pull off, even for a government. And even then, it's somewhat limited what one can do even when one controls the 51%. For instance, you still couldn't just steal other people's money.
Also, by the way, I don't know if you've heard of "proof of stake" as an alternative to "proof of work", which is going to be deployed in a couple of crypto currencies soon - not only does it make the environmentally unfriendly "mining" unnecessary, it also makes 51% attacks much less likely because in that system you don't need 51% of the computing power but 51% of the currency - even if you'd manage to get that, you'd only shoot yourself in the foot if you'd use that position to manipulate, and hence devalue, the currency. It's quite interesting.
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I cant help but laugh..... some of the very people who have laughed at me for buying gold - not gold certificates, not gold stock, etc.. but real gold - and told me that I was crazy for basing my view of gold being a hedge against the collapse of currency.....
Are now telling us how wise they are for investing in a risky unproven digital currency because "it will be unaffected by currency collapses"....,
BWAAAAHAHAHAHAAAAAA
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I know you’re not talking about me since I’m not a crypto bug, but it’s worth pointing out that I didn’t laugh at you for buying gold, I laughed at you for telling people to sell stocks and buy gold within 48 hrs of this century’s low water mark of the S&P.
DON’T let them eat cake.
- RFK Jr -
@jon-nyc said in The Bitcoin/Crypto Thread:
I know you’re not talking about me since I’m not a crypto bug, but it’s worth pointing out that I didn’t laugh at you for buying gold, I laughed at you for telling people to sell stocks and buy gold within 48 hrs of this century’s low water mark of the S&P.
No, I wasn't talking about you. But my advise regarding getting out of the stock market wasn't tied to any certain time frame. I just view the stock market as being barely a full notch above bitcoin as far as investment stability. I don't think anyone should put their money into other people's hands, to "buy things that they might possibly wake up one morning and find that it shit canned overnight...
