Alec Baldwin what the fuck
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@george-k said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
@bachophile said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
Just some of my old army habits kicking in. U pick a weapon, or someone gives one to you. first thing u do, draw back and check the chamber is empty. Not just look, stick your finger in. Then point it 60 degrees skyward away from anyone and fire it empty. Then, Safety on. Ok. Now you can proceed and do whatever you were planning to do. Clean it. Break it apart. Go make a number 2 in the crap house. Whatever. And never never believe anyone who says, I checked it, it’s empty.
All good points. However, on a movie set things might be different. If what I'm reading is true, the responsibility for safety is on the armorer if they're rehearsing or filming a scene. If it was supposed to be loaded with a blank, should the actor have checked? Would he even be able to tell the difference?
Just asking, trying to get a sense of who's responsible here.
Both.
Bach is absolutely right. You never take anybody's word for whether a weapon is loaded or not. You always check for yourself. That error is on Baldwin.
You never have live ammo on the set and you always check your prop guns to make sure if they are loaded or not, and if those loads are blanks. That error is on the armorer.
Lastly, you don't point guns at anything you don't intend to kill. That's a training error.
Hopefully, something good will come out of this horrible mess.
@jolly said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
Lastly, you don't point guns at anything you don't intend to kill. That's a training error.
I understand, and agree.
However, in a MOVIE, that standard has to be different, no?
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@george-k said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
@bachophile said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
Just some of my old army habits kicking in. U pick a weapon, or someone gives one to you. first thing u do, draw back and check the chamber is empty. Not just look, stick your finger in. Then point it 60 degrees skyward away from anyone and fire it empty. Then, Safety on. Ok. Now you can proceed and do whatever you were planning to do. Clean it. Break it apart. Go make a number 2 in the crap house. Whatever. And never never believe anyone who says, I checked it, it’s empty.
All good points. However, on a movie set things might be different. If what I'm reading is true, the responsibility for safety is on the armorer if they're rehearsing or filming a scene. If it was supposed to be loaded with a blank, should the actor have checked? Would he even be able to tell the difference?
Just asking, trying to get a sense of who's responsible here.
Both.
Bach is absolutely right. You never take anybody's word for whether a weapon is loaded or not. You always check for yourself. That error is on Baldwin.
You never have live ammo on the set and you always check your prop guns to make sure if they are loaded or not, and if those loads are blanks. That error is on the armorer.
Lastly, you don't point guns at anything you don't intend to kill. That's a training error.
Hopefully, something good will come out of this horrible mess.
@jolly said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
That error is on Baldwin.
Not that Baldwin's anguish is any worse than that of the victim's loved ones, but . . .
I keep picturing his thought processes: "I didn't know it had a live bullet, I would never have aimed the gun at him if I'd known." And the thought coming back, "Why did you aim the gun at him in the first place? Why?"
No exoneration.
Again, the loss to the victim and his family is much greater, but Baldwin will never be the same after this. The rest of his life he will be haunted by it. How will he ever again have a carefree moment?
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@jolly said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
That error is on Baldwin.
Not that Baldwin's anguish is any worse than that of the victim's loved ones, but . . .
I keep picturing his thought processes: "I didn't know it had a live bullet, I would never have aimed the gun at him if I'd known." And the thought coming back, "Why did you aim the gun at him in the first place? Why?"
No exoneration.
Again, the loss to the victim and his family is much greater, but Baldwin will never be the same after this. The rest of his life he will be haunted by it. How will he ever again have a carefree moment?
@catseye3 said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
And the thought coming back, "Why did you aim the gun at him in the first place? Why?"
No exoneration.If it was rehearsal for a shot, I can see it happening. The person killed was a cinematographer, presumably standing behind, or near the cameraman. There are countless scenes where an actor points the gun at the camera and fires.
But, we don't know the circumstances of when, or why, the gun was fired.
If he was "goofing around," then, yeah, you're right.
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@jolly said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
Lastly, you don't point guns at anything you don't intend to kill. That's a training error.
I understand, and agree.
However, in a MOVIE, that standard has to be different, no?
@george-k said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
@jolly said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
Lastly, you don't point guns at anything you don't intend to kill. That's a training error.
I understand, and agree.
However, in a MOVIE, that standard has to be different, no?
Doesn't have to be. Because of camera angles and CGI, you can either aim to miss or fake the shot and put the muzzle flare in later. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, I profess ignorance.
But...Lessons earned are lessons learned, and sometimes lessons get reinforced. I had a barn cat by the name of Blackie. Blackie was about half grown, but he couldn't meow properly. As a kitten, something had gotten ahold of him and crooked his neck a little. My wife nursed him back, but he always had that deformity. Pretty decent cat, though.
I was working around the house one day, when I spied him just a clawing away at a fruit tree I had just planted. I hollered at him, and he never missed a beat. Pissed, I drew my pistol and hip shot one about six feet over his head.
Except I didn't. I nailed him, center. Then I had to walk out there and finish him off, as he flopped around from being gutshot. Then, I had to walk back and tell the wife I'd killed the cat she'd nursed.
Podnuh, that's a long, long walk.
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The 24-year-old head armorer in charge of guns on Alec Baldwin film where cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was tragically shot and killed on Thursday had admitted she wasn't sure she was ready for the job in an interview before filming started.
'I almost didn't take the job because I wasn't sure if I was ready, but doing it, it went really smoothly,' Hannah Gutierrez-Reed said in a podcast interview last month after leading the firearms department for The Old Way, starring Nicolas Cage - her first time as head armorer.
She also admitted in the podcast interview she found loading blanks into a gun 'the scariest' thing because she did not know how to do it and had sought help from her father, legendary gunsmith Thell Reed, to get over the fear.
It comes as the film crew revealed they walked off set hours before the fatal accident over safety fears after firearms were accidentally discharged three times - including once by Baldwin's stunt double who had been told the gun was not loaded, and twice in a closed cabin.
A search warrant released Friday said that Gutierrez-Reed laid out three prop guns on a cart outside the filming location, and first assistant director Dave Halls grabbed the gun from the cart and brought it inside to Baldwin, unaware that it was loaded with live rounds.
'Cold gun!' shouted Halls before handing the gun to Baldwin, using the phrase to signal to cast and crew that the gun was safe to fire for the scene, the warrant said.
Seconds later, filming a scene inside an Old West-style church, Baldwin apparently aimed towards the camera and pulled the trigger, accidentally killing Hutchins as she filmed him, and injuring director Joel Souza, who stood behind her.
Neither Halls nor Gutierrez-Reed immediately returned messages from DailyMail.com late on Friday. Neither has been charged or named as a criminal suspect in the case, though a police investigation is ongoing.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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The 24-year-old head armorer in charge of guns on Alec Baldwin film where cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was tragically shot and killed on Thursday had admitted she wasn't sure she was ready for the job in an interview before filming started.
'I almost didn't take the job because I wasn't sure if I was ready, but doing it, it went really smoothly,' Hannah Gutierrez-Reed said in a podcast interview last month after leading the firearms department for The Old Way, starring Nicolas Cage - her first time as head armorer.
She also admitted in the podcast interview she found loading blanks into a gun 'the scariest' thing because she did not know how to do it and had sought help from her father, legendary gunsmith Thell Reed, to get over the fear.
It comes as the film crew revealed they walked off set hours before the fatal accident over safety fears after firearms were accidentally discharged three times - including once by Baldwin's stunt double who had been told the gun was not loaded, and twice in a closed cabin.
A search warrant released Friday said that Gutierrez-Reed laid out three prop guns on a cart outside the filming location, and first assistant director Dave Halls grabbed the gun from the cart and brought it inside to Baldwin, unaware that it was loaded with live rounds.
'Cold gun!' shouted Halls before handing the gun to Baldwin, using the phrase to signal to cast and crew that the gun was safe to fire for the scene, the warrant said.
Seconds later, filming a scene inside an Old West-style church, Baldwin apparently aimed towards the camera and pulled the trigger, accidentally killing Hutchins as she filmed him, and injuring director Joel Souza, who stood behind her.
Neither Halls nor Gutierrez-Reed immediately returned messages from DailyMail.com late on Friday. Neither has been charged or named as a criminal suspect in the case, though a police investigation is ongoing.
According to the Los Angeles Times, about half a dozen members of the camera crew on Rust walked out hours before the tragedy after protesting over working conditions on the set at the Bonanza Creek Ranch near Santa Fe.
The union members had reportedly complained that they were promised hotel rooms in Santa Fe, but once filming of the Western began they were required to drive 50 miles (80km) from Albuquerque every morning.
Meanwhile, the BBC has obtained a document showing which crew members were listed as scheduled to be on set that day.
It names a head armourer, the crew member responsible for checking firearms. Hannah Gutierrez Reed is in her twenties and, according to the LA Times, had recently worked in this role for the first time.
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Sounds like shoestring production meets incompetent armorer.
Baldwin is not criminally liable. As producer, he's going to incur shared liability in the civil suit.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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Here's a reaction from Tim Pool, who sometimes makes interesting comments, but I found this one rather despicable.
Link to videoWhether or not Baldwin is or isn't an a**hole otherwise has no relevance whatsoever for this incident. I find it despicable how he tries to use the situation to throw as much dirt as possible in Baldwin's direction.
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Here's a reaction from Tim Pool, who sometimes makes interesting comments, but I found this one rather despicable.
Link to videoWhether or not Baldwin is or isn't an a**hole otherwise has no relevance whatsoever for this incident. I find it despicable how he tries to use the situation to throw as much dirt as possible in Baldwin's direction.
@klaus said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
Here's a reaction from Tim Pool, who sometimes makes interesting comments, but I found this one rather despicable.
Link to videoWhether or not Baldwin is or isn't an a**hole otherwise has no relevance whatsoever for this incident. I find it despicable how he tries to use the situation to throw as much dirt as possible in Baldwin's direction.
What a prick
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Baldwin is two things: not primarily at fault for this incident, in that actors have to be allowed to assume guns handed to them are not loaded with live ammunition, and one of the all-time tribal douche bags in his attempts to use his celebrity to rile up the mob against the other tribe. A third thing he is, he is of course a massive hypocrite with a personal life that backs up nothing related to personal virtue.
I suppose it's a challenge for some to keep all those different things straight in their heads. They also might not be motivated to keep them straight, if they're feeling righteous in their attacks against the aforementioned all time tribal douche celebrity.
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The 24-year-old head armorer in charge of guns on Alec Baldwin film where cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was tragically shot and killed on Thursday had admitted she wasn't sure she was ready for the job in an interview before filming started.
'I almost didn't take the job because I wasn't sure if I was ready, but doing it, it went really smoothly,' Hannah Gutierrez-Reed said in a podcast interview last month after leading the firearms department for The Old Way, starring Nicolas Cage - her first time as head armorer.
She also admitted in the podcast interview she found loading blanks into a gun 'the scariest' thing because she did not know how to do it and had sought help from her father, legendary gunsmith Thell Reed, to get over the fear.
It comes as the film crew revealed they walked off set hours before the fatal accident over safety fears after firearms were accidentally discharged three times - including once by Baldwin's stunt double who had been told the gun was not loaded, and twice in a closed cabin.
A search warrant released Friday said that Gutierrez-Reed laid out three prop guns on a cart outside the filming location, and first assistant director Dave Halls grabbed the gun from the cart and brought it inside to Baldwin, unaware that it was loaded with live rounds.
'Cold gun!' shouted Halls before handing the gun to Baldwin, using the phrase to signal to cast and crew that the gun was safe to fire for the scene, the warrant said.
Seconds later, filming a scene inside an Old West-style church, Baldwin apparently aimed towards the camera and pulled the trigger, accidentally killing Hutchins as she filmed him, and injuring director Joel Souza, who stood behind her.
Neither Halls nor Gutierrez-Reed immediately returned messages from DailyMail.com late on Friday. Neither has been charged or named as a criminal suspect in the case, though a police investigation is ongoing.
It comes as the film crew revealed they walked off set hours before the fatal accident over safety fears after firearms were accidentally discharged three times - including once by Baldwin's stunt double who had been told the gun was not loaded, and twice in a closed cabin.
It would be surreal if there had really been incident after incident of live ammo being accidentally shot on that set. If that's not BS, which I have to assume it is, then the whole production was insane, not least Baldwin and the people who willingly stood in the line of ambiguously live fire.
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The 24-year-old head armorer in charge of guns on Alec Baldwin film where cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was tragically shot and killed on Thursday had admitted she wasn't sure she was ready for the job in an interview before filming started.
'I almost didn't take the job because I wasn't sure if I was ready, but doing it, it went really smoothly,' Hannah Gutierrez-Reed said in a podcast interview last month after leading the firearms department for The Old Way, starring Nicolas Cage - her first time as head armorer.
She also admitted in the podcast interview she found loading blanks into a gun 'the scariest' thing because she did not know how to do it and had sought help from her father, legendary gunsmith Thell Reed, to get over the fear.
It comes as the film crew revealed they walked off set hours before the fatal accident over safety fears after firearms were accidentally discharged three times - including once by Baldwin's stunt double who had been told the gun was not loaded, and twice in a closed cabin.
A search warrant released Friday said that Gutierrez-Reed laid out three prop guns on a cart outside the filming location, and first assistant director Dave Halls grabbed the gun from the cart and brought it inside to Baldwin, unaware that it was loaded with live rounds.
'Cold gun!' shouted Halls before handing the gun to Baldwin, using the phrase to signal to cast and crew that the gun was safe to fire for the scene, the warrant said.
Seconds later, filming a scene inside an Old West-style church, Baldwin apparently aimed towards the camera and pulled the trigger, accidentally killing Hutchins as she filmed him, and injuring director Joel Souza, who stood behind her.
Neither Halls nor Gutierrez-Reed immediately returned messages from DailyMail.com late on Friday. Neither has been charged or named as a criminal suspect in the case, though a police investigation is ongoing.
@george-k said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
It comes as the film crew revealed they walked off set hours before the fatal accident over safety fears after firearms were accidentally discharged three times - including once by Baldwin's stunt double who had been told the gun was not loaded, and twice in a closed cabin.
After the first incident the armorer has to be fired… Three times? And you are not double or triple checking the weapons? The armorer bears some responsibility, but so do the director and producers at that point…
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Sounds like shoestring production meets incompetent armorer.
Baldwin is not criminally liable. As producer, he's going to incur shared liability in the civil suit.
@jolly said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
Sounds like shoestring production meets incompetent armorer.
Supposedly, the armorer, while young is the daughter of a legendary armorer - and she's done other films as an armorer. This film, she was the lead armorer, a new role. Still, regardless of whether a novice or a legend, the procedures should be set so that mistakes don't happen. When they give chemo at most hospitals, there are two people who review the drugs and dosage before the drugs are given. I would think two people should review the weapon BEFORE it is handed to an actor - EVEN if it was checked before. Your point that there was NO REASON for live ammo on a set - should nearly be a law. Alternatively, if someone wanted a gun with live ammo on a set, it should have a trigger lock on it and red tape on the handle.
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Okay, the more I think about it, the fishier things get. 1 discharge could totally be an accident. 4? That sounds like somebody is intentionally loading live rounds after the weapons have been supposedly checked…
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Okay, the more I think about it, the fishier things get. 1 discharge could totally be an accident. 4? That sounds like somebody is intentionally loading live rounds after the weapons have been supposedly checked…
@lufins-dad said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
Okay, the more I think about it, the fishier things get. 1 discharge could totally be an accident. 4? That sounds like somebody is intentionally loading live rounds after the weapons have been supposedly checked…
The story that live ammo had been accidentally discharged on set "several times", to the point that crew members were walking over it, beggars belief. If it's true, then something is insane.
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@lufins-dad said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
Okay, the more I think about it, the fishier things get. 1 discharge could totally be an accident. 4? That sounds like somebody is intentionally loading live rounds after the weapons have been supposedly checked…
The story that live ammo had been accidentally discharged on set "several times", to the point that crew members were walking over it, beggars belief. If it's true, then something is insane.
@horace said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
@lufins-dad said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
Okay, the more I think about it, the fishier things get. 1 discharge could totally be an accident. 4? That sounds like somebody is intentionally loading live rounds after the weapons have been supposedly checked…
The story that live ammo had been accidentally discharged on set "several times", to the point that crew members were walking over it, beggars belief. If it's true, then something is insane.
And they kept filming? With real guns? At this point, Baldwin does become culpable as the producer for not pausing production after the second incident…
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I smell a Mysterie!
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I hate to say it, but this sounds suspiciously like 'people making shit up'.
