The Gestapo stages another raid.
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@loki said in The Gestapo stages another raid.:
Play stupid games win stupid prizes. No one told them storming the Capitol might fuck up the rest of their lives? How come the rest of the world knew??
Are you so filled with hate, you have lost all reason? NEVER FORGET WHAT CAN BE DONE TO ONE PERSON OR GROUP TODAY, CAN BE DONE TO ANOTHER TOMORROW.
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@jolly said in The Gestapo stages another raid.:
@loki said in The Gestapo stages another raid.:
Play stupid games win stupid prizes. No one told them storming the Capitol might fuck up the rest of their lives? How come the rest of the world knew??
Are you so filled with hate, you have lost all reason? NEVER FORGET WHAT CAN BE DONE TO ONE PERSON OR GROUP TODAY, CAN BE DONE TO ANOTHER TOMORROW.
I will never get over storming the Capitol especially when Congress is in session and the extreme luck that a catastrophe didn’t happen. This is not about what you are suggesting. Worse, it’s so called patriots flaunting the rule of rule in a manner that would be hard to exceed.
In just about any other situation I would likely be more aligned with you.
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So, do you now align your politics more with the Nationalist Social Party?
Because that is exactly what you are doing. You have decided that an Untermensch class exists in America. These "under men" have no rights under our Constitution. It's not even a slippery slope to the next step, which is to mistreat them with no regard to the law.
The next step is re-education camps, except for those deemed not fit for that. Those can be summarily executed. History has provided us with ample examples of how to use the power of the modern state to accomplish mass murder.
May you drink your morning coffee draped in your self-righteousness, with the stench of a modern-day Auschwitz drifting through your kitchen windows. Of course, you'll claim that while these "people" deserved their fate, you had no idea a murder factory existed near your home...
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The Most Important Constitutional Rights in Criminal Proceedings
The most important rights of criminal defendants, as protected by the U.S. Constitution, are set forth in the following provisions:
ARTICLE 1, SECTION 10 OF THE U.S. CONSTITUTION
Article 1 of the constitution forbids ex post facto laws and bills of attainder:No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.
These prohibitions protects people from criminal charges in the following manner:
Ex Post Facto Laws: An ex post facto law is a law that is passed after a person has committed an act in order to allow for the criminal prosecution of the person's prior act. As a result of the prohibition of ex post facto laws, you may only be prosecuted under the laws that are in effect at the time of your alleged criminal act.
Bills of Attainder: A bill of attainder is a law that is passed in order to punish a specific individual, usually without judicial process. Pursuant to this protection, the state is prohibited from passing a law that declares a specific individual or group of people guilty of an offense and imposes a punishment upon them, with or without a trial. This protection ensures that a criminal law targets a specific behavior that a legislature intends to outlaw, and does not instead target an individual or group.
FOURTH AMENDMENT RIGHTS
The Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution provides,The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
The Fourth Amendment provides general protections against arbitrary search and seizure of persons and property, including a general requirement that an agent of the state must obtain a search warrant before searching a person or their property.
Unreasonable Search and Seizure: The Fourth Amendment protects against arbitrary searches, and provides the foundation for the potential suppression (exclusion) of improperly seized evidence from use in a criminal prosecution.
Warrant Requirement: Absent compelling circumstances, before searching a person, their property or their home the police are required to obtain a search warrant to be issued by a neutral magistrate upon a showing of probable cause. The failure to obtain a warrant may result in the suppression of evidence improperly seized, such that it cannot be used in a later criminal prosecution.
Although there are many exceptions to the Fourth Amendment warrant requirement, that provision gives broad protection to the general public from inappropriate police conduct.
FIFTH AMENDMENT RIGHTS
The Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution provides,No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
The Fifth Amendment describes a number of very important legal protections that are now often taken for granted.
Double Jeopardy: Double jeopardy occurs when the state tries a defendant more than once for the same offense. Pursuant to the constitutional protection against double jeopardy, the state may not retry a defendant who has been acquitted of the offense, whose case is dismissed for reasons other than his own misconduct after a jury is empanelled and sworn in, or after the judge started to hear evidence in a bench trial. Retrial may otherwise be possible following a mistrial or remand from a successful appeal.
The Right to Remain Silent: A defendant's right to remain silent and not have the exercise of that right be treated as evidence of guilt is protected by the Fifth Amendment right that a defendant not to be compelled to be a witness against himself.
Due Process of Law: Due process rights include an enormous array of procedural protections that are intended to help ensure a fair trial.
Miranda Rights: A criminal suspect's right to receive a Miranda warning prior to custodial interrogation arises from the Fifth Amendment. Miranda warnings instruct suspects that they have the right to remain silent, that statements they give may be used against them, and of their right to be represented by counsel.
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SIXTH AMENDMENT RIGHTS
The Sixth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution provides,In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
Among the important rights of criminal defendants that are protected by the Sixth Amendment, are:
Jury Trial: The Sixth Amendment protects the right to trial by jury for all felonies and most misdemeanor offenses, as opposed to having a criminal case heard by a judge with no jury present.
Disclosure of Charges: Defendants have the right to be informed of the nature of the charges that have been filed against then by the state and of the potential punishments that could be imposed upon conviction.
The Right to Counsel: Defendants in criminal cases have the right to be represented by a lawyer. For all felony offenses and most misdemeanors, indigent defendants facing criminal charges have the right to court-appointed lawyers to assist them with their defense and represent them in court.
Confrontation of Witnesses: Criminal defendants have the right to compel witnesses to appear at trial, the right to confront (question and cross-examine) witnesses at trial, and the right to receive help from the state to locate missing witnesses and ensure that they appear at trial.
Speedy Trial: Speedy trial rights protect defendants against undue delay in the trial of a suspect, a right that is most important for defendants who are being detained by the state prior to trial. Although a defendant may waive his speedy trial rights, this right prevents the state from incarcerating defendants for years while their trials are perpetually delayed.
EIGHTH AMENDMENT RIGHTS
The Eighth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution provides,Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
The Eighth Amendment prohibits:
Excessive Bail: The Eighth Amendment prohibits the imposition of excessive bail in federal prosecutions. Bail is deemed excessive when it is required in amount unreasonably in excess of bail that would reasonably assure the defendant's appearance at trial. This provision does not apply to prosecutions in state court.
Excessive Fines: Defendants are protected from financial penalties in amounts that are not reasonable for the criminal charge or under the facts of their cases.
Cruel and Unusual Punishments: The Eighth Amendment protects defendants from being punished for a crime with a penalty that is severely degrading to human dignity, inflicted in a wholly arbitrary fashion, that is clearly and totally rejected throughout society, or that is wholly unnecessary. For example, historic punishments such as flogging or putting a defendant in stocks are now forbidden as cruel and unusual.
FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT RIGHTS
Section One of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution provides,Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
The Fourteenth Amendment provides the foundation for the expansion of federal constitutional protections to defendants in state courts.
Equal Protection: The first Section of the Fourteenth Amendment requires that all citizens be granted equal protection of the laws. Under that provision, neither state governments nor the federal government may deprive an individual or class of people of the rights enjoyed by other persons who are similarly situated.
Privileges and Immunities: The Privileges and Immunities Clause prohibits the states from treating the citizens of different states in a discriminatory manner, and similarly prohibits the federal government from giving different treatment to the citizens of different states.
Due Process: The Fourteenth Amendment extends the constitution's Due Process rights to state prosecutions, and it is through this clause that the majority of the rights listed in the Bill of Rights have been incorporated to the States. Incorporation is the process by which the Supreme Court declares a constitutional protection to bind state governments and their agents, as well as the federal government.
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Disclaimer, I am in no way condoning the actions of these asshats from January 6th.
That said, there are some disturbing observations. As Senator Grassley observed, the people who attacked and burned federal property in Portland are being treated very differently than those who stormed and caused thousands of dollars of damage before congress could resume its business, later that day.
Secondly, the conditions under which these morons are being held are also very different from those who are under indictment for crimes in Portland - again, on federal property.
Whatever happened to "equal treatment under the law?" This is banana republic shit.
And don't get me started on the pre-dawn raid on Roger Stone's house.
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Who's constitutional rights are being trampled exactly?
How are they being trampled?
@jolly said in The Gestapo stages another raid.:
Remember the FISA court abuse during the Russia! Russia! Russia! hoax?
Did most of you see the comments by the former head of the ACLU, about the current lack of concern for Free Speech?
Do no-knock SWAT raids for misdemeanors not bother you?
Did anybody see the mounting news reports about many of the January 6th rioters being held for over six months in solitary confinement, without proper access to attorneys and no bail hearings, while the government tries to break them financially and psychologically?
The January 6th damages amounted to about half of what Joe Biden's self-admitted modest home cost. OTOH, the Antifa riots in Seattle and Portland have cost tens of millions of dollars. The nation-wide riots probably amount to billions of dollars in damage and lost revenue. It has become increasingly evident that none arrested during those riots, even those charged with rape and murder, are being treated the same as many (if not most) arrested for January 6th offenses.
If these government abuses do not bother you, you are not worthy of American citizenship.
Period.
All of it bothers me. It has bothered me most of my adult life. So what? What exactly am I supposed to do about it. Doesn't matter who we elect. They all let this shit happen. All of them.
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@jolly said in The Gestapo stages another raid.:
So, do you now align your politics more with the Nationalist Social Party?
Because that is exactly what you are doing. You have decided that an Untermensch class exists in America. These "under men" have no rights under our Constitution. It's not even a slippery slope to the next step, which is to mistreat them with no regard to the law.
The next step is re-education camps, except for those deemed not fit for that. Those can be summarily executed. History has provided us with ample examples of how to use the power of the modern state to accomplish mass murder.
May you drink your morning coffee draped in your self-righteousness, with the stench of a modern-day Auschwitz drifting through your kitchen windows. Of course, you'll claim that while these "people" deserved their fate, you had no idea a murder factory existed near your home...
We got to Godwin’s principle now. I view this more like trying to unring the bell. No one except the participants themselves created the situation, the optics and the hundreds of hours of video. Honestly I have no idea what level of malevolence was done in how votes were counted but then again it was a clown show by the GOP in trying to prove it. Some super silly characters with literally nothing to show. No evidence whatsoever. I do suspect it’s hard to get evidence and I’ve always advocated for credible voting.
But I digress. I would be moved if people admitted the travesty instead of trying to turn it around. And maybe you are right, there has been enough suffering by the perps. But it was an attack on democracy and there should be a robust response to that. Those in jail are being treated like every other defendant so we need to admit that. If the GOP thinks we have a totalitarian country forming it could lead with prison reform, acknowledging low level perps don’t need to lose their livelihoods and apply the innocent until guilty to everyone. By order of magnitude so many more people have been harmed by our justice system than those that decided they would stop our constitutional processes on Jan 6.
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@loki said in The Gestapo stages another raid.:
If the GOP thinks we have a totalitarian country forming it could lead with prison reform, acknowledging low level perps don’t need to lose their livelihoods and apply the innocent until guilty to everyone. By order of magnitude so many more people have been harmed by our justice system than those that decided they would stop our constitutional processes on Jan 6.
I guess we've found out what it takes for the American right to be outraged by the US Justice System. A system that imprisons more people than any other Western democracy.
In 2015, the USA had 5% of the world's population, and 22% of it's prisoners.
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@loki said in The Gestapo stages another raid.:
@jolly said in The Gestapo stages another raid.:
So, do you now align your politics more with the Nationalist Social Party?
Because that is exactly what you are doing. You have decided that an Untermensch class exists in America. These "under men" have no rights under our Constitution. It's not even a slippery slope to the next step, which is to mistreat them with no regard to the law.
The next step is re-education camps, except for those deemed not fit for that. Those can be summarily executed. History has provided us with ample examples of how to use the power of the modern state to accomplish mass murder.
May you drink your morning coffee draped in your self-righteousness, with the stench of a modern-day Auschwitz drifting through your kitchen windows. Of course, you'll claim that while these "people" deserved their fate, you had no idea a murder factory existed near your home...
We got to Godwin’s principle now. I view this more like trying to unring the bell. No one except the participants themselves created the situation, the optics and the hundreds of hours of video. Honestly I have no idea what level of malevolence was done in how votes were counted but then again it was a clown show by the GOP in trying to prove it. Some super silly characters with literally nothing to show. No evidence whatsoever. I do suspect it’s hard to get evidence and I’ve always advocated for credible voting.
But I digress. I would be moved if people admitted the travesty instead of trying to turn it around. And maybe you are right, there has been enough suffering by the perps. But it was an attack on democracy and there should be a robust response to that. Those in jail are being treated like every other defendant so we need to admit that. If the GOP thinks we have a totalitarian country forming it could lead with prison reform, acknowledging low level perps don’t need to lose their livelihoods and apply the innocent until guilty to everyone. By order of magnitude so many more people have been harmed by our justice system than those that decided they would stop our constitutional processes on Jan 6.
You are missing the point completely. We are either a nation of laws, who treat their citizens according to our constitution, or we might as well pack it in and let the best dictator win.
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@doctor-phibes said in The Gestapo stages another raid.:
@loki said in The Gestapo stages another raid.:
If the GOP thinks we have a totalitarian country forming it could lead with prison reform, acknowledging low level perps don’t need to lose their livelihoods and apply the innocent until guilty to everyone. By order of magnitude so many more people have been harmed by our justice system than those that decided they would stop our constitutional processes on Jan 6.
I guess we've found out what it takes for the American right to be outraged by the US Justice System. A system that imprisons more people than any other Western democracy.
In 2015, the USA had 5% of the world's population, and 22% of it's prisoners.
One of the major accomplishments of Trump was an emphasis on prison reform, for which he got zero credit.
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@mark said in The Gestapo stages another raid.:
Who's constitutional rights are being trampled exactly?
How are they being trampled?
@jolly said in The Gestapo stages another raid.:
Remember the FISA court abuse during the Russia! Russia! Russia! hoax?
Did most of you see the comments by the former head of the ACLU, about the current lack of concern for Free Speech?
Do no-knock SWAT raids for misdemeanors not bother you?
Did anybody see the mounting news reports about many of the January 6th rioters being held for over six months in solitary confinement, without proper access to attorneys and no bail hearings, while the government tries to break them financially and psychologically?
The January 6th damages amounted to about half of what Joe Biden's self-admitted modest home cost. OTOH, the Antifa riots in Seattle and Portland have cost tens of millions of dollars. The nation-wide riots probably amount to billions of dollars in damage and lost revenue. It has become increasingly evident that none arrested during those riots, even those charged with rape and murder, are being treated the same as many (if not most) arrested for January 6th offenses.
If these government abuses do not bother you, you are not worthy of American citizenship.
Period.
All of it bothers me. It has bothered me most of my adult life. So what? What exactly am I supposed to do about it. Doesn't matter who we elect. They all let this shit happen. All of them.
Some are worse than others. Aqua is right in one respect...It's a slow decomposition until the country becomes a failed state and anarchy will briefly reign. I just don't want to get there any faster than I have to...
