India and Ivermectin
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Ivermectin has already been approved as a covid-19 treatment in more than 20 countries. They include Mexico where the mayor of Mexico City, Claudia Scheinbaum, recently said that the medicine had reduced hospitalisations by as much as 76%. As of last week, 135,000 of the city’s residents had been treated with the medicine. The government of India — the world’s second most populous country and one of the world’s biggest manufacturers of medicines — has also recommended the use of ivermectin as an early outpatient treatment against covid-19, in direct contravention of WHO’s own advice.
Dr Vikas P. Sukhatme, the dean of Emory School of Medicine, recently wrote in a column for the Times of India that deploying drugs such as ivermectin and fluvoxamine in India is likely to “rapidly reduce the number of COVID-19 patients, reduce the number requiring hospitalization, supplemental oxygen and intensive care and improve outcomes in hospitalized patients.”
Four weeks after the government included ivermectin and budesonide among its early treatment guidelines, the country has recorded its lowest case count in 40 days.
In many of India’s regions the case numbers are plunging in almost vertical fashion. In the capital Delhi, as in Mexico City, hospitalisations have plummeted. In the space of 10 days ICU occupancy fell from 99% to 70%. Deaths are also falling. The test positivity ratio slumped from 35% to 5% in just one month.
One of the outliers of this trend is the state of Tamil Nadu, where cases are still rising steeply. This may have something to do with the fact that the state’s newly elected governor, MK Stalin, decided to exclude ivermectin from the region’s treatment protocol in favor of Remdesivir. The result? Soaring cases. Late last week, Stalin reversed course once again and readopted ivermectin.
For the moment deaths in India remain extremely high. And there are concerns that the numbers are being under-reported. Yet they may also begin to fall in the coming days. In all of the countries that have used ivermectin widely, fatalities are the last thing to fall, after case numbers and hospitalizations. Of course, there’s no way of definitively proving that these rapid falloffs are due to the use of ivermectin. Correlation, even as consistent as this, is not causation. Other factors such as strict lockdowns and travel restrictions no doubt also play a part.
But a clear pattern across nations and territories has formed that strongly supports ivermectin’s purported efficacy. And that efficacy has been amply demonstrated in three meta-analyses.
India’s decision to adopt ivermectin, including as a prophylaxis in some states, is already a potential game-changer. As I wrote three weeks ago, if case numbers, hospitalizations and fatalities fall in India as precipitously as they have in other countries that have adopted ivermectin, it could even become a watershed moment. But for that to happen, the news must reach enough eyes and ears. And for that to happen, reporters must, as Capuzzo says, begin to do their job and report both sides of this vital story.
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Shucks, I'd still like to see a study on plaquenil where the drug is used as doctors have used it successfully. Just like Ivermectin, docs have said it works if you give it early in conjunction with other drugs.
@jolly said in India and Ivermectin:
Shucks, I'd still like to see a study on plaquenil where the drug is used as doctors have used it successfully. Just like Ivermectin, docs have said it works if you give it early in conjunction with other drugs.
India has been studying it from day 1. The cheap cost, widespread availability and ease of administration in a poor country is way way too tantalizing.
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-05-india-hydroxychloroquine-virus.html
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@george-k said in India and Ivermectin:
The timing could just be a coincidence. Other factors (lockdowns, etc) may, may, have played a role. Vaccinations, afaik, have not been a big factor in India - yet.
Read the thread:
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Just checked. India has about 11.5% of the population vaccinated with at least one dose.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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Meta-stuff:
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@george-k said in India and Ivermectin:
Just checked. India has about 11.5% of the population vaccinated with at least one dose.
I did not realize it was that high already. Good for them!!
Super difficult to reach people in India. I am guess that most of the 11.5% are those in cities. The more difficult part will be to reach the people in the rural areas.
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Maitt Taibbi: "Shut up," they explained.
a pulmonologist named Dr. Pierre Kory, insisted he had great news.
“We have a solution to this crisis,” he said unequivocally. “There is a drug that is proving to have a miraculous impact.”
Kory was referring to an FDA-approved medicine called ivermectin. A genuine wonder drug in other realms, ivermectin has all but eliminated parasitic diseases like river blindness and elephantiasis, helping discoverer Satoshi Ōmura win the Nobel Prize in 2015. As far as its uses in the pandemic went, however, research was still scant. Could it really be a magic Covid-19 bullet?
Kory had been trying to make such a case, but complained to the Senate that public efforts had been stifled, because “every time we mention ivermectin, we get put in Facebook jail.” A Catch-22 seemed to be ensnaring science. With the world desperate for news about an unprecedented disaster, Silicon Valley had essentially decided to disallow discussion of a potential solution — disallow calls for more research and more study — because not enough research and study had been done. Once, people weren’t allowed to take drugs before they got FDA approval. Now, they can’t talk about them.
“I want to try to be respectful because I think the intention is correct,” Kory told the committee. “They want to cut down on misinformation, and many doctors are claiming X, Y, and Z work in this disease. The challenge is, you’re also silencing those of us who are expert, reasoned, researched, and extremely knowledgeable.”
Eight million people watched Kory say that on the C-SPAN video of the hearing posted to YouTube, but YouTube, in what appears to be a first, removed video of the hearing, as even Senate testimony was now deemed too dangerous for public consumption. YouTube later suspended the Wisconsin Senator who’d invited Kory to the hearing, and when Kory went on podcasts to tell his story, YouTube took down those videos, too. Kory was like a ghost who floated through the Internet, leaving suspensions and blackened warning screens everywhere he went.
One of the challenges of the pandemic period is the degree to which science has become intertwined with politics. Arguments about the efficacy of mask use or ventilators, or the viability of repurposed drugs like hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin, or even the pandemic’s origins, were quashed from the jump in the American commercial press, which committed itself to a regime of simplified insta-takes made opposite to Donald Trump’s comments. With a few exceptions, Internet censors generally tracked with this conventional wisdom, which had the effect of moving conspiracy theories and real scientific debates alike far underground.
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Maitt Taibbi: "Shut up," they explained.
a pulmonologist named Dr. Pierre Kory, insisted he had great news.
“We have a solution to this crisis,” he said unequivocally. “There is a drug that is proving to have a miraculous impact.”
Kory was referring to an FDA-approved medicine called ivermectin. A genuine wonder drug in other realms, ivermectin has all but eliminated parasitic diseases like river blindness and elephantiasis, helping discoverer Satoshi Ōmura win the Nobel Prize in 2015. As far as its uses in the pandemic went, however, research was still scant. Could it really be a magic Covid-19 bullet?
Kory had been trying to make such a case, but complained to the Senate that public efforts had been stifled, because “every time we mention ivermectin, we get put in Facebook jail.” A Catch-22 seemed to be ensnaring science. With the world desperate for news about an unprecedented disaster, Silicon Valley had essentially decided to disallow discussion of a potential solution — disallow calls for more research and more study — because not enough research and study had been done. Once, people weren’t allowed to take drugs before they got FDA approval. Now, they can’t talk about them.
“I want to try to be respectful because I think the intention is correct,” Kory told the committee. “They want to cut down on misinformation, and many doctors are claiming X, Y, and Z work in this disease. The challenge is, you’re also silencing those of us who are expert, reasoned, researched, and extremely knowledgeable.”
Eight million people watched Kory say that on the C-SPAN video of the hearing posted to YouTube, but YouTube, in what appears to be a first, removed video of the hearing, as even Senate testimony was now deemed too dangerous for public consumption. YouTube later suspended the Wisconsin Senator who’d invited Kory to the hearing, and when Kory went on podcasts to tell his story, YouTube took down those videos, too. Kory was like a ghost who floated through the Internet, leaving suspensions and blackened warning screens everywhere he went.
One of the challenges of the pandemic period is the degree to which science has become intertwined with politics. Arguments about the efficacy of mask use or ventilators, or the viability of repurposed drugs like hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin, or even the pandemic’s origins, were quashed from the jump in the American commercial press, which committed itself to a regime of simplified insta-takes made opposite to Donald Trump’s comments. With a few exceptions, Internet censors generally tracked with this conventional wisdom, which had the effect of moving conspiracy theories and real scientific debates alike far underground.
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Is the question whether Ivermectin is an alternative to taking the vaccine in the US? Not following the argument?
Why would India care about US politics if there was a cheap cure?
@loki said in India and Ivermectin:
Is the question whether Ivermectin is an alternative to taking the vaccine in the US? Not following the argument?
I don't think so. Vaccination is not a treatment, it's preventative. Ivermectin and the drug-that-shall-not-be-named were/are being suggested as treatments to reduce morbidity and mortality.
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@loki said in India and Ivermectin:
Is the question whether Ivermectin is an alternative to taking the vaccine in the US? Not following the argument?
I don't think so. Vaccination is not a treatment, it's preventative. Ivermectin and the drug-that-shall-not-be-named were/are being suggested as treatments to reduce morbidity and mortality.
@george-k said in India and Ivermectin:
@loki said in India and Ivermectin:
Is the question whether Ivermectin is an alternative to taking the vaccine in the US? Not following the argument?
I don't think so. Vaccination is not a treatment, it's preventative. Ivermectin and the drug-that-shall-not-be-named were/are being suggested as treatments to reduce morbidity and mortality.
Treatment for who in the US? Seems like prevention is the answer, why would you dick with a treatment and create noise in the media? Politics?
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@george-k said in India and Ivermectin:
@loki said in India and Ivermectin:
Is the question whether Ivermectin is an alternative to taking the vaccine in the US? Not following the argument?
I don't think so. Vaccination is not a treatment, it's preventative. Ivermectin and the drug-that-shall-not-be-named were/are being suggested as treatments to reduce morbidity and mortality.
Treatment for who in the US? Seems like prevention is the answer, why would you dick with a treatment and create noise in the media? Politics?
@loki said in India and Ivermectin:
Treatment for who in the US? Seems like prevention is the answer, why would you dick with a treatment and create noise in the media? Politics?
Of course prevention is the answer. But it's not 100% as we all know.
Once you GET the disease, what are you going to do? The only thing that seems to mitigate is supportive therapies (some of which have been shown to be potentially harmful).
Taibbi's point, however, is that despite "believe the science," the people who want to even discuss it are shut down and silenced. They may be wrong, but they may be right, but we'll never know because they're not allowed to talk about it.
Galileo wept.
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And too many people have been told by the MSM that Plaquenil is BAD! Ivermectin is BAD! You, you charlatan, are spreading misinformation! You MUST be shut down and deplatformed.
What a crock of absolute horseshit.
It's the art of medicine, not necessarily the science. Yes. science plays a huge role in medicine, but you still have to treat patients with what works. Many moons ago, low level village folk healers often had herbs and concoctions that actually worked...They didn't know why they worked, but they did. Boil some willow bark and drink the tea, next time you have a fever and see if it works.
A lot of doctors think these two drugs we're talking about work, if given at the right stage of the disease and with the appropriate cocktail. Maybe these docs are wrong. Maybe they're right. If they're right, even for a small percentage of people, it's significant.
Let's do the appropriate studies, which includes not giving the drugs to somebody at death's door and then proclaiming it doesn't work, when nothing else would, either.
Let's follow the science. Let's do the studies. But let's not stifle the debate on what works and what does not.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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And too many people have been told by the MSM that Plaquenil is BAD! Ivermectin is BAD! You, you charlatan, are spreading misinformation! You MUST be shut down and deplatformed.
What a crock of absolute horseshit.
It's the art of medicine, not necessarily the science. Yes. science plays a huge role in medicine, but you still have to treat patients with what works. Many moons ago, low level village folk healers often had herbs and concoctions that actually worked...They didn't know why they worked, but they did. Boil some willow bark and drink the tea, next time you have a fever and see if it works.
A lot of doctors think these two drugs we're talking about work, if given at the right stage of the disease and with the appropriate cocktail. Maybe these docs are wrong. Maybe they're right. If they're right, even for a small percentage of people, it's significant.
Let's do the appropriate studies, which includes not giving the drugs to somebody at death's door and then proclaiming it doesn't work, when nothing else would, either.
Let's follow the science. Let's do the studies. But let's not stifle the debate on what works and what does not.
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And too many people have been told by the MSM that Plaquenil is BAD! Ivermectin is BAD! You, you charlatan, are spreading misinformation! You MUST be shut down and deplatformed.
What a crock of absolute horseshit.
It's the art of medicine, not necessarily the science. Yes. science plays a huge role in medicine, but you still have to treat patients with what works. Many moons ago, low level village folk healers often had herbs and concoctions that actually worked...They didn't know why they worked, but they did. Boil some willow bark and drink the tea, next time you have a fever and see if it works.
A lot of doctors think these two drugs we're talking about work, if given at the right stage of the disease and with the appropriate cocktail. Maybe these docs are wrong. Maybe they're right. If they're right, even for a small percentage of people, it's significant.
Let's do the appropriate studies, which includes not giving the drugs to somebody at death's door and then proclaiming it doesn't work, when nothing else would, either.
Let's follow the science. Let's do the studies. But let's not stifle the debate on what works and what does not.
