China's emissions
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@axtremus said in China's emissions:
Total OECD population: 1.36 Billion
China‘s population: 1.44 BillionOn a per capita basis, China is merely catching up to OECD level.
They are so close to asking us to bow to them and yet everyone is still a sucker for poor little me, I need help.
@loki said in China's emissions:
They are so close to asking us to bow to them and yet everyone is still a sucker for poor little me, I need help.
Take in a bit of a historical view and you'd see that we, the typical OECD nationals, are quite far ahead in terms of our cummulative emissions compared to the typical Chinese's:
You can also try to imagine moving all the manufacturing that the OECD countries have outsourced to China back into OECD territories and see how that might change emissions.
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We seemed to have moved on from 'Global warming is completely made up' to 'It's all China's fault and we're doing fucking nothing!'
I was only joking
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We seemed to have moved on from 'Global warming is completely made up' to 'It's all China's fault and we're doing fucking nothing!'
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
We seemed to have moved on from 'Global warming is completely made up' to 'It's all China's fault and we're doing fucking nothing!'
No that's just today. We'll be back at it tomorrow.
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We seemed to have moved on from 'Global warming is completely made up' to 'It's all China's fault and we're doing fucking nothing!'
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
We seemed to have moved on from 'Global warming is completely made up' to 'It's all China's fault and we're doing fucking nothing!'
That the rest of the world is putting money where their mouths are regarding reducing emissions is simple fact, regardless of the truth of global warming.
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@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
We seemed to have moved on from 'Global warming is completely made up' to 'It's all China's fault and we're doing fucking nothing!'
That the rest of the world is putting money where their mouths are regarding reducing emissions is simple fact, regardless of the truth of global warming.
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
We seemed to have moved on from 'Global warming is completely made up' to 'It's all China's fault and we're doing fucking nothing!'
That the rest of the world is putting money where their mouths are regarding reducing emissions is simple fact, regardless of the truth of global warming.
My point was that opponents of global warming in the US can't seem to get their stories straight. It's a little reminiscent of some of the anti-Covid arguments, where people flit from 'it's totally over-hyped' to 'masks don't help', to 'masks are tyranny' to 'masks are more harmful to your health than Covid', to 'the vaccinations are tyranny' to 'they haven't been tested' to a myriad of other stupid reasons to do absolutely nothing about what can really only be described as a big freaking crisis.
It's so blindingly obvious that there's something else at play when people do this.
Moving from 'We don't need to do anything because global warming is fictional' to 'We don't need to do anything because China isn't doing anything' would rather imply that the main point is that people don't want to do anything, regardless of whether global warming is a thing, and by morphing around like this, they're exhibiting intellectual dishonesty. Stick to the point, or at least be honest about the motivation.
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@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
Moving from 'We don't need to do anything because global warming is fictional' to 'We don't need to do anything because China isn't doing anything'
I thought the point was to establish that China should be doing something, along with the rest of the world, and it's wrong and unfair that they're not.
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@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
Moving from 'We don't need to do anything because global warming is fictional' to 'We don't need to do anything because China isn't doing anything'
I thought the point was to establish that China should be doing something, along with the rest of the world, and it's wrong and unfair that they're not.
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
Moving from 'We don't need to do anything because global warming is fictional' to 'We don't need to do anything because China isn't doing anything'
I thought the point was to establish that China should be doing something, along with the rest of the world, and it's wrong and unfair that they're not.
Clearly China should be doing something, and it's wrong that they're not. But if global warming isn't real, complaining about China not doing anything seems like a waste of bandwidth.
I was only joking
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@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
We seemed to have moved on from 'Global warming is completely made up' to 'It's all China's fault and we're doing fucking nothing!'
That the rest of the world is putting money where their mouths are regarding reducing emissions is simple fact, regardless of the truth of global warming.
My point was that opponents of global warming in the US can't seem to get their stories straight. It's a little reminiscent of some of the anti-Covid arguments, where people flit from 'it's totally over-hyped' to 'masks don't help', to 'masks are tyranny' to 'masks are more harmful to your health than Covid', to 'the vaccinations are tyranny' to 'they haven't been tested' to a myriad of other stupid reasons to do absolutely nothing about what can really only be described as a big freaking crisis.
It's so blindingly obvious that there's something else at play when people do this.
Moving from 'We don't need to do anything because global warming is fictional' to 'We don't need to do anything because China isn't doing anything' would rather imply that the main point is that people don't want to do anything, regardless of whether global warming is a thing, and by morphing around like this, they're exhibiting intellectual dishonesty. Stick to the point, or at least be honest about the motivation.
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
We seemed to have moved on from 'Global warming is completely made up' to 'It's all China's fault and we're doing fucking nothing!'
That the rest of the world is putting money where their mouths are regarding reducing emissions is simple fact, regardless of the truth of global warming.
My point was that opponents of global warming in the US can't seem to get their stories straight. It's a little reminiscent of some of the anti-Covid arguments, where people flit from 'it's totally over-hyped' to 'masks don't help', to 'masks are tyranny' to 'masks are more harmful to your health than Covid', to 'the vaccinations are tyranny' to 'they haven't been tested' to a myriad of other stupid reasons to do absolutely nothing about what can really only be described as a big freaking crisis.
It's so blindingly obvious that there's something else at play when people do this.
Moving from 'We don't need to do anything because global warming is fictional' to 'We don't need to do anything because China isn't doing anything' would rather imply that the main point is that people don't want to do anything, regardless of whether global warming is a thing, and by morphing around like this, they're exhibiting intellectual dishonesty. Stick to the point, or at least be honest about the motivation.
If the alternative is being an apologist for China it’s a matter of foreign and economic policy. How is that for motivation?
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@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
Moving from 'We don't need to do anything because global warming is fictional' to 'We don't need to do anything because China isn't doing anything'
I thought the point was to establish that China should be doing something, along with the rest of the world, and it's wrong and unfair that they're not.
Clearly China should be doing something, and it's wrong that they're not. But if global warming isn't real, complaining about China not doing anything seems like a waste of bandwidth.
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
Moving from 'We don't need to do anything because global warming is fictional' to 'We don't need to do anything because China isn't doing anything'
I thought the point was to establish that China should be doing something, along with the rest of the world, and it's wrong and unfair that they're not.
Clearly China should be doing something, and it's wrong that they're not. But if global warming isn't real, complaining about China not doing anything seems like a waste of bandwidth.
There's an economic competition aspect too.
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@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
Moving from 'We don't need to do anything because global warming is fictional' to 'We don't need to do anything because China isn't doing anything'
I thought the point was to establish that China should be doing something, along with the rest of the world, and it's wrong and unfair that they're not.
Clearly China should be doing something, and it's wrong that they're not. But if global warming isn't real, complaining about China not doing anything seems like a waste of bandwidth.
There's an economic competition aspect too.
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
Moving from 'We don't need to do anything because global warming is fictional' to 'We don't need to do anything because China isn't doing anything'
I thought the point was to establish that China should be doing something, along with the rest of the world, and it's wrong and unfair that they're not.
Clearly China should be doing something, and it's wrong that they're not. But if global warming isn't real, complaining about China not doing anything seems like a waste of bandwidth.
There's an economic competition aspect too.
Right, so take the fight to China to force them to do the right thing, don't use it as an excuse to do nothing. If global warming is a thing, and China does nothing, the US doing nothing still makes it worse.
I was only joking
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@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
Moving from 'We don't need to do anything because global warming is fictional' to 'We don't need to do anything because China isn't doing anything'
I thought the point was to establish that China should be doing something, along with the rest of the world, and it's wrong and unfair that they're not.
Clearly China should be doing something, and it's wrong that they're not. But if global warming isn't real, complaining about China not doing anything seems like a waste of bandwidth.
There's an economic competition aspect too.
Right, so take the fight to China to force them to do the right thing, don't use it as an excuse to do nothing. If global warming is a thing, and China does nothing, the US doing nothing still makes it worse.
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
Moving from 'We don't need to do anything because global warming is fictional' to 'We don't need to do anything because China isn't doing anything'
I thought the point was to establish that China should be doing something, along with the rest of the world, and it's wrong and unfair that they're not.
Clearly China should be doing something, and it's wrong that they're not. But if global warming isn't real, complaining about China not doing anything seems like a waste of bandwidth.
There's an economic competition aspect too.
Right, so take the fight to China to force them to do the right thing, don't use it as an excuse to do nothing. If global warming is a thing, and China does nothing, the US doing nothing still makes it worse.
A country that severely limits the internet, scores people digitally to ideological purity, is the picture of 21st century slavery and is now launching throughout the world…. You are a decade too late and every global warming convo gets an Ax slide as to why we are the bad guys.
I dunno which is worse, more global warming or a dominant China with few freedoms. Actually I do.
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@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
Moving from 'We don't need to do anything because global warming is fictional' to 'We don't need to do anything because China isn't doing anything'
I thought the point was to establish that China should be doing something, along with the rest of the world, and it's wrong and unfair that they're not.
Clearly China should be doing something, and it's wrong that they're not. But if global warming isn't real, complaining about China not doing anything seems like a waste of bandwidth.
There's an economic competition aspect too.
Right, so take the fight to China to force them to do the right thing, don't use it as an excuse to do nothing. If global warming is a thing, and China does nothing, the US doing nothing still makes it worse.
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
Moving from 'We don't need to do anything because global warming is fictional' to 'We don't need to do anything because China isn't doing anything'
I thought the point was to establish that China should be doing something, along with the rest of the world, and it's wrong and unfair that they're not.
Clearly China should be doing something, and it's wrong that they're not. But if global warming isn't real, complaining about China not doing anything seems like a waste of bandwidth.
There's an economic competition aspect too.
Right, so take the fight to China to force them to do the right thing, don't use it as an excuse to do nothing. If global warming is a thing, and China does nothing, the US doing nothing still makes it worse.
Maybe if I hear "Yeah but China is doing nothing", I assume the person wants China to do something, while you assume the person wants their own country to do nothing.
Education is extremely important.
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@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
Moving from 'We don't need to do anything because global warming is fictional' to 'We don't need to do anything because China isn't doing anything'
I thought the point was to establish that China should be doing something, along with the rest of the world, and it's wrong and unfair that they're not.
Clearly China should be doing something, and it's wrong that they're not. But if global warming isn't real, complaining about China not doing anything seems like a waste of bandwidth.
There's an economic competition aspect too.
Right, so take the fight to China to force them to do the right thing, don't use it as an excuse to do nothing. If global warming is a thing, and China does nothing, the US doing nothing still makes it worse.
A country that severely limits the internet, scores people digitally to ideological purity, is the picture of 21st century slavery and is now launching throughout the world…. You are a decade too late and every global warming convo gets an Ax slide as to why we are the bad guys.
I dunno which is worse, more global warming or a dominant China with few freedoms. Actually I do.
@loki said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
Moving from 'We don't need to do anything because global warming is fictional' to 'We don't need to do anything because China isn't doing anything'
I thought the point was to establish that China should be doing something, along with the rest of the world, and it's wrong and unfair that they're not.
Clearly China should be doing something, and it's wrong that they're not. But if global warming isn't real, complaining about China not doing anything seems like a waste of bandwidth.
There's an economic competition aspect too.
Right, so take the fight to China to force them to do the right thing, don't use it as an excuse to do nothing. If global warming is a thing, and China does nothing, the US doing nothing still makes it worse.
A country that severely limits the internet, scores people digitally to ideological purity, is the picture of 21st century slavery and is now launching throughout the world…. You are a decade too late and every global warming convo gets an Ax slide as to why we are the bad guys.
I dunno which is worse, more global warming or a dominant China with few freedoms. Actually I do.
You won't get any argument from me regarding how awful China is, although I've had people tell me I'm being overly-western-centric in pointing this out.
I'll say it again, some people in the US seem to be looking for excuses to do nothing.
I was only joking
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@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
Moving from 'We don't need to do anything because global warming is fictional' to 'We don't need to do anything because China isn't doing anything'
I thought the point was to establish that China should be doing something, along with the rest of the world, and it's wrong and unfair that they're not.
Clearly China should be doing something, and it's wrong that they're not. But if global warming isn't real, complaining about China not doing anything seems like a waste of bandwidth.
There's an economic competition aspect too.
Right, so take the fight to China to force them to do the right thing, don't use it as an excuse to do nothing. If global warming is a thing, and China does nothing, the US doing nothing still makes it worse.
Maybe if I hear "Yeah but China is doing nothing", I assume the person wants China to do something, while you assume the person wants their own country to do nothing.
@horace said in China's emissions:
Maybe if I hear "Yeah but China is doing nothing", I assume the person wants China to do something, while you assume the person wants their own country to do nothing.
When the same person has said 'Global warming isn't real', it's not difficult to connect the dots.
American conservatives in general have a high tendency towards climate change denial.
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@horace said in China's emissions:
Maybe if I hear "Yeah but China is doing nothing", I assume the person wants China to do something, while you assume the person wants their own country to do nothing.
When the same person has said 'Global warming isn't real', it's not difficult to connect the dots.
American conservatives in general have a high tendency towards climate change denial.
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
Maybe if I hear "Yeah but China is doing nothing", I assume the person wants China to do something, while you assume the person wants their own country to do nothing.
When the same person has said 'Global warming isn't real', it's not difficult to connect the dots.
American conservatives in general have a high tendency towards climate change denial.
And the left has a high tendency to smuggle in lots of politics under the guise of fighting climate change. Green New Deal, anybody? It's a nuanced issue.
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@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
Maybe if I hear "Yeah but China is doing nothing", I assume the person wants China to do something, while you assume the person wants their own country to do nothing.
When the same person has said 'Global warming isn't real', it's not difficult to connect the dots.
American conservatives in general have a high tendency towards climate change denial.
And the left has a high tendency to smuggle in lots of politics under the guise of fighting climate change. Green New Deal, anybody? It's a nuanced issue.
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
Maybe if I hear "Yeah but China is doing nothing", I assume the person wants China to do something, while you assume the person wants their own country to do nothing.
When the same person has said 'Global warming isn't real', it's not difficult to connect the dots.
American conservatives in general have a high tendency towards climate change denial.
And the left has a high tendency to smuggle in lots of politics under the guise of fighting climate change. Green New Deal, anybody? It's a nuanced issue.
Yes, I agree. The Democrats are a bunch of assholes. I apologize in advance for being unable to find politicians who aren't awful.
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@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
Maybe if I hear "Yeah but China is doing nothing", I assume the person wants China to do something, while you assume the person wants their own country to do nothing.
When the same person has said 'Global warming isn't real', it's not difficult to connect the dots.
American conservatives in general have a high tendency towards climate change denial.
And the left has a high tendency to smuggle in lots of politics under the guise of fighting climate change. Green New Deal, anybody? It's a nuanced issue.
Yes, I agree. The Democrats are a bunch of assholes. I apologize in advance for being unable to find politicians who aren't awful.
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
Maybe if I hear "Yeah but China is doing nothing", I assume the person wants China to do something, while you assume the person wants their own country to do nothing.
When the same person has said 'Global warming isn't real', it's not difficult to connect the dots.
American conservatives in general have a high tendency towards climate change denial.
And the left has a high tendency to smuggle in lots of politics under the guise of fighting climate change. Green New Deal, anybody? It's a nuanced issue.
Yes, I agree. The Democrats are a bunch of assholes. I apologize in advance for being unable to find politicians who aren't awful.
The Dems can successfully message all those politics because of the degree to which "Climate Change: the Destroyer of Mankind" has taken hold in people's minds. They can even puppeteer Greta because of that, and people take her seriously. I'm not going to get too bent out of shape if anybody wants to question the basic message.
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@loki said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
Moving from 'We don't need to do anything because global warming is fictional' to 'We don't need to do anything because China isn't doing anything'
I thought the point was to establish that China should be doing something, along with the rest of the world, and it's wrong and unfair that they're not.
Clearly China should be doing something, and it's wrong that they're not. But if global warming isn't real, complaining about China not doing anything seems like a waste of bandwidth.
There's an economic competition aspect too.
Right, so take the fight to China to force them to do the right thing, don't use it as an excuse to do nothing. If global warming is a thing, and China does nothing, the US doing nothing still makes it worse.
A country that severely limits the internet, scores people digitally to ideological purity, is the picture of 21st century slavery and is now launching throughout the world…. You are a decade too late and every global warming convo gets an Ax slide as to why we are the bad guys.
I dunno which is worse, more global warming or a dominant China with few freedoms. Actually I do.
You won't get any argument from me regarding how awful China is, although I've had people tell me I'm being overly-western-centric in pointing this out.
I'll say it again, some people in the US seem to be looking for excuses to do nothing.
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@loki said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
Moving from 'We don't need to do anything because global warming is fictional' to 'We don't need to do anything because China isn't doing anything'
I thought the point was to establish that China should be doing something, along with the rest of the world, and it's wrong and unfair that they're not.
Clearly China should be doing something, and it's wrong that they're not. But if global warming isn't real, complaining about China not doing anything seems like a waste of bandwidth.
There's an economic competition aspect too.
Right, so take the fight to China to force them to do the right thing, don't use it as an excuse to do nothing. If global warming is a thing, and China does nothing, the US doing nothing still makes it worse.
A country that severely limits the internet, scores people digitally to ideological purity, is the picture of 21st century slavery and is now launching throughout the world…. You are a decade too late and every global warming convo gets an Ax slide as to why we are the bad guys.
I dunno which is worse, more global warming or a dominant China with few freedoms. Actually I do.
You won't get any argument from me regarding how awful China is, although I've had people tell me I'm being overly-western-centric in pointing this out.
I'll say it again, some people in the US seem to be looking for excuses to do nothing.
So your argument is if we do something, China will follow. The world will squeeze China. Show me evidence of that strategy, I can show you numerous examples of the opposite. But I sincerely want to know what I am missing because if only we do something it makes NO difference to warming rates.
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@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@loki said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
Moving from 'We don't need to do anything because global warming is fictional' to 'We don't need to do anything because China isn't doing anything'
I thought the point was to establish that China should be doing something, along with the rest of the world, and it's wrong and unfair that they're not.
Clearly China should be doing something, and it's wrong that they're not. But if global warming isn't real, complaining about China not doing anything seems like a waste of bandwidth.
There's an economic competition aspect too.
Right, so take the fight to China to force them to do the right thing, don't use it as an excuse to do nothing. If global warming is a thing, and China does nothing, the US doing nothing still makes it worse.
A country that severely limits the internet, scores people digitally to ideological purity, is the picture of 21st century slavery and is now launching throughout the world…. You are a decade too late and every global warming convo gets an Ax slide as to why we are the bad guys.
I dunno which is worse, more global warming or a dominant China with few freedoms. Actually I do.
You won't get any argument from me regarding how awful China is, although I've had people tell me I'm being overly-western-centric in pointing this out.
I'll say it again, some people in the US seem to be looking for excuses to do nothing.
So your argument is if we do something, China will follow. The world will squeeze China. Show me evidence of that strategy, I can show you numerous examples of the opposite. But I sincerely want to know what I am missing because if only we do something it makes NO difference to warming rates.
@loki said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@loki said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
@horace said in China's emissions:
@doctor-phibes said in China's emissions:
Moving from 'We don't need to do anything because global warming is fictional' to 'We don't need to do anything because China isn't doing anything'
I thought the point was to establish that China should be doing something, along with the rest of the world, and it's wrong and unfair that they're not.
Clearly China should be doing something, and it's wrong that they're not. But if global warming isn't real, complaining about China not doing anything seems like a waste of bandwidth.
There's an economic competition aspect too.
Right, so take the fight to China to force them to do the right thing, don't use it as an excuse to do nothing. If global warming is a thing, and China does nothing, the US doing nothing still makes it worse.
A country that severely limits the internet, scores people digitally to ideological purity, is the picture of 21st century slavery and is now launching throughout the world…. You are a decade too late and every global warming convo gets an Ax slide as to why we are the bad guys.
I dunno which is worse, more global warming or a dominant China with few freedoms. Actually I do.
You won't get any argument from me regarding how awful China is, although I've had people tell me I'm being overly-western-centric in pointing this out.
I'll say it again, some people in the US seem to be looking for excuses to do nothing.
So your argument is if we do something, China will follow. The world will squeeze China. Show me evidence of that strategy, I can show you numerous examples of the opposite. But I sincerely want to know what I am missing because if only we do something it makes NO difference to warming rates.
No, that's not my argument at all, where did I say that? But doing nothing doesn't seem like a good strategy. What is needed is global pressure on China.
