Meanwhile, on Long Island...

[Jolly]

@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

I'd rather do two things:

Sounds great to me. As I said from the beginning, I don't care who disagrees with me, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything.

Ever been around cons much? I have. A lot of them. A good part of our patient population were convicts. And like I said, I was down on The Farm quite a bit in my second career.

I find many murderers to be pretty nice guys. Murder is a crime of passion, a lot of the time. Kinda like the old man I was sharing lunch with, a trustee called "Pops". I asked Pops what he was in for. Murder 2 was the answer. Caught a guy in bed with his wife, so he slapped the snot out of his wife and beat the other guy to death in his front yard.

That's why Pops didn't get the chair. And as I said, he was a pretty genial guy to hang out with.

But some of those guys?

Nasty people. We had one guy who used to come in for bloodwork a good bit...Tied his girlfriend to a kitchen table and skinned her out with a butcher knife. Weird dude. I would have had no problem pulling the switch on him at all. Or the guy who sodomized a preacher's wife in front of him, before cutting her throat and his buddy shot the preacher in the head. Those guys weren't worth $70 of my money per day. They weren't worth 70 cents.

Why let those guys live? Kill it, bury it and move on...

[George K]

@rainman said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

A long time ago, there was someone on the old coffee room whose daughter was kidnapped, raped, and killed.

I don't want to derail the thread, but I was on call the night this happened. I got a PM....

Something so horrific has happened to my family. I'm numb and in shock. Denise, my daughter in law was kidnapped this afternoon. I can't sleep. I have to share it with someone. Of course, my family know but as it's after midnight I won't call them until we hear something more or at least not until morning. I know I need my sleep. But, my god, I can't even close my eyes.

Mark's mother is here sleepng in the guest bedroom. Mark's out on the couch waiting for Nathan (who is absolutely devastated) and I'm here with Noah in the bedrrom. Adam's over the other grandparents.

Oh, George, please pray for us.

But, to return to the thread, when something like this comes close to you, it makes you rethink your position on capital punishment. Though I understand Aqua's point, there's something...vengeful that comes out when it's close to home.

Hernando Williams (c. 1955 – 25 March 1995) was a convicted murderer, executed by the State of Illinois.

On 29 March 1978, Williams, a young man, kidnapped Linda Goldstone from the Northwestern Medical Center parking lot in Chicago, Illinois. Goldstone, the wife of a physician and mother of a young boy, was on her way to teach a Lamaze class when Williams approached her, gun in hand. He told her it was a robbery. She gave him her money, but Williams made her partially disrobe and get into the front seat of his car. Williams held Goldstone captive for more than two days.

At the time of his kidnapping of Goldstone, Williams was out on bail for kidnapping and rape of another woman. He drove around with her in the trunk of his car for several days, even attending a court hearing in Maywood, Illinois with her in his trunk. At the hearing, the assistant state's attorney told the judge he was not ready for trial and Williams left the courtroom a relatively free man. When he returned to the court parking lot, he saw some people who appeared to be talking to the trunk of his car. He told those people to get away and left the scene with Goldstone still in the trunk. One of those who had talked to Goldstone while she was in the trunk at the Courthouse, reported the license plate number to the police. Police did not act on the tip.

Williams spent two nights in different motels with Goldstone and later admitted that he sexually assaulted her. At around 5:00 a.m. on 1 April 1978, Williams let Goldstone go, giving her $1.25 for bus fare and telling her to get on a bus and go home. Instead, she approached a home, knocked on the door, and asked for help. The door was opened by a Chicago firefighter. Goldstone told him that she needed help. The firefighter told her that he would call the police. Then he closed the door, leaving her outside.

Meanwhile, Williams had gotten nervous, doubting whether Goldstone would keep her promise and get on a bus. He circled back around the block and saw her speaking to a man inside a house. After the firefighter had closed the door, Williams got out of his car and called to Goldstone. He led her around to a back alley where he shot her twice and left her. Some hours later, Chicago Police found Williams at his parents' home, washing out the trunk of his car.

Linda Goldstone was my friend's wife. The night of his execution, I stayed up to be sure that he was dead.

[Doctor Phibes]

I don't think justice should be based on anger. It's perfectly natural to want somebody who has destroyed somebody we love, or care about, or just know, to suffer in turn. Of course it's different when it's somebody we know.

But that's not what the justice system should be. It's why we don't have friends and relatives making up the jury, and we don't have the head of the household as judge.

Nobody wants innocent people to die, and that is what will inevitably happen if you have the death penalty.

[George K]

@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

I don't think justice should be based on anger. It's perfectly natural to want somebody who has destroyed somebody we love, or care about, or just know, to suffer in turn. Of course it's different when it's somebody we know.

But that's not what the justice system should be. It's why we don't have friends and relatives making up the jury, and we don't have the head of the household as judge.

That's why I used the word "vengeful" in my comments.

[Doctor Phibes]

In the 1970's and 1980's in Britain there were a large number of people who wanted the death penalty for terrorists. The anger was palpable.

Based on what we've learned since about the Birmingham 6, and other miscarriages of justice associated with Northern Ireland, due to multiple reasons, a lot of innocent people would have died during that time.

[Jolly]

@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

In the 1970's and 1980's in Britain there were a large number of people who wanted the death penalty for terrorists. The anger was palpable.

Based on what we've learned since about the Birmingham 6, and other miscarriages of justice associated with Northern Ireland, due to multiple reasons, a lot of innocent people would have died during that time.

As somebody who has rolled out his fair share of cold morgue trays, let me say that very few people "deserve" to die.

But of those few, some really, really need to.

[Renauda]

@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

@renauda said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

Oh look a crack in the judicial system! Get out the bucket of God spackle and fill it with merciful theodicy. That'll surely make it good and bring comfort to all.

To me the invocation of divine justice just seems like a cop out or lame excuse not to make the judicial system less imperfect than it already is.

That opinion and $1 (American) will buy you a senior coffee at McDonald's.

Thanks for the offer but you can keep your $1 USD and give the coffee to some poor soul on the street corner.

[Jolly]

@renauda said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

@renauda said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

Oh look a crack in the judicial system! Get out the bucket of God spackle and fill it with merciful theodicy. That'll surely make it good and bring comfort to all.

To me the invocation of divine justice just seems like a cop out or lame excuse not to make the judicial system less imperfect than it already is.

That opinion and $1 (American) will buy you a senior coffee at McDonald's.

Thanks for the offer but you can keep your $1 USD and give the coffee to some poor soul on the street corner.

Well, it is McDonald's coffee...

[Renauda]

@jolly

Then enjoy the rich flavour yourself.

[Rainman]

@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

In the 1970's and 1980's in Britain there were a large number of people who wanted the death penalty for terrorists. The anger was palpable.

Based on what we've learned since about the Birmingham 6, and other miscarriages of justice associated with Northern Ireland, due to multiple reasons, a lot of innocent people would have died during that time.

As somebody who has rolled out his fair share of cold morgue trays, let me say that very few people "deserve" to die.

But of those few, some really, really need to.

Yes, but the exceptions when at a personal level, IOW whataboutisms. . .

I tried hard to help a guy from Cuba. He was in South Tucson at a bar, got into a fight. In anger, he went out to get a knife from the glove box of his car, came back in and stabbed the guy, who died at the scene. William ran to his car, went home, and told me what happened (he was a next-door neighbor in our line of condos)
In William's perspective, he did not want to kill the guy at all, but wanted to uphold his honor in the face of other people that he knew at the bar. William was a very nice guy, but a mean drunk. He was let loose in this country with a "welcome, enjoy your freedom," and from that point on, he didn't have a clue what to do, where to go, nothing! Those stupid bastards that let people into this country and provide absolutely nothing to help them merge into society and culture.

Since he went to his car to get the knife, it was determined to be "premeditated murder." He got a life sentence, no parole.

And to be uncomfortably frank, the guy he killed was part of the low-life underground that lives in every city, who have no interest at all in anything like upward mobility. Those that commit acts of violence agains anyone weaker, to steal their way through the day if necessary.
But William had to defend his honor. That's what you would do in Cuba. You would run, hide, and in time no cop would be looking for you. But, "welcome to the U.S.A.!" The millions of people like William were set up to fail. Let them in and then forget about them, and then look at the stats for who is in jail, and why.

Premeditated murder. And when he talked to me the one time on the phone when he was in jail, he couldn't figure out when he would be getting out. Certainly, he would be getting out, like in Cuba. Just find out who/where to slip the money, or who you know in a government position of influence, and that's how it works. No, William, you don't understand. . .

And he didn't understand. The difference in culture is what he did not understand, so in part because of this, he went to jail with countless others, and enjoyed their "welcome to the U.S.A." short stay of freedom.
Thanks, Uncle Sam!!

[Jolly]

@renauda said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

@jolly

Then enjoy the rich flavour yourself.

Nah, it has a bit of a burnt taste. It's why I thought you might like it.

[Jolly]

@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

In the 1970's and 1980's in Britain there were a large number of people who wanted the death penalty for terrorists. The anger was palpable.

Based on what we've learned since about the Birmingham 6, and other miscarriages of justice associated with Northern Ireland, due to multiple reasons, a lot of innocent people would have died during that time.

But yet...we condone the killing of almost 900,000 innocents per year in this country and barely bat an eyelash.

Might want to chew on that juxtaposition between the very few innocents who might die after an exhaustive appeal process vs. those who have no say at all in their impending death.

[Renauda]

@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

@renauda said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

@jolly

Then enjoy the rich flavour yourself.

Nah, it has a bit of a burnt taste. It's why I thought you might like it.

It's too watered down - tasteless, almost institutional.

[taiwan_girl]

From what I know (which I admit is not very much) about the US legal system, it is "designed" so that, if necessary, 99 guilty people go free to make sure that the one innocent person goes free.

There are other countries (I believe I was reading about the Malay legal system, but I could be incorrect) that kind of was the opposite. It was more important to capture the 99 guilty people, even if you had to sacrifice one innocent person.

[George K]

Who is Berfin Ozek? Woman weds beau who threw acid and disfigured her face in jealousy

A young Turkish woman has shocked everyone after she married her boyfriend, who also happens to be the same person that carried out an acid attack on her. Berfin Ozek, 20, recently married 23-year-old Casim Ozan Celtic, 23, barely two years after he doused her face with acid and left her permanently disfigured for life. Ozek, who once became the poster girl for anti-acid attack campaigns in the country, has now left everyone in utter disbelief with her decision.

Ozek was attacked by Celtik around two years ago during a heated argument, where he appeared to be extremely possessive about her. The pair, who had been dating from their teenage years, was reportedly separated at the time — something that did not sit well with Celtik. He reportedly shouted, "If I can't have you, no one can," just before throwing a highly corrosive acid on her face.

The attack left Ozek's face disfigured as well as rendered her partially blind. At that time, she filed a police complaint against Celtik that led to his eventual arrest. However, Celtik convinced her to withdraw the complaint by showering her with emotional love messages and begging for her forgiveness.

"We have written many letters to each other. I have given myself to him. I love him very much — [and] he loves me very much,” Ozek said after withdrawing her official complaint against Celtik.

However, Ozek's supporters and followers on social media were not happy with the decision and lambasted her vehemently, thereby prompting her to request the judge for reinstating the complaint. This time, Celtik earned a sentence of 13.5 years in prison, which, luckily for him, got curtailed due to Covid rule changes. Presently he is out on probation and went ahead with tying the knot with his on-and-off girlfriend, whose life he once ruined in the wink of an eye.

[Jolly]

People are crazy.

[jon-nyc]

Women.

[Horace]

Maybe he has a huge penis.