Meanwhile, on Long Island...
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What would you call the killing of an innocent by the murderer that wasn't executed?
A price worth paying to achieve woke?
What would you call the killing of an innocent by the murderer that wasn't discouraged by possible execution?
A price worth paying to achieve woke?
OK, that's reasonable.
I tend to favor the innocent over the murderer, but to each his own.
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@copper said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
I tend to favor the innocent over the murderer, but to each his own.
Except when they've been wrongfully convicted, it would appear.
I was only joking
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@Copper Dude why even reply, it's obvious you're not trying to understand anybody. Jolly will at least try to interpret posts he disagrees with.
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@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?
Yep.
A dead person never killed anybody.
On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.
Execution ain't murder.
What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?
Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.
We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@Copper Dude why even reply, it's obvious you're not trying to understand anybody. Jolly will at least try to interpret posts he disagrees with.
I understand exactly
You refuse to consider the whole story, I'm helping you do that
The wrongfully convicted are a sad consequence of imperfection
But that is not the whole story
Stomp your feet if you like, I'll still be here to help
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@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?
Yep.
A dead person never killed anybody.
On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.
Execution ain't murder.
What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?
Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.
We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.
It's not justice, thought. It's a grave injustice.
An Englishman once said that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer, a sentiment that was repeated by your Mr. Franklin.
At least with wrongful imprisonment, the wrong has a chance of being righted.
I was only joking
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@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?
Yep.
A dead person never killed anybody.
On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.
Execution ain't murder.
What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?
Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.
We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.
It's not justice, thought. It's a grave injustice.
An Englishman once said that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer, a sentiment that was repeated by your Mr. Franklin.
At least with wrongful imprisonment, the wrong has a chance of being righted.
Only if you look at it as nothing past the grave. Man has imperfect justice, but God's Justice is perfect. He shall know his own, and any errors in this world will be corrected in the next.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@copper said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@Copper Dude why even reply, it's obvious you're not trying to understand anybody. Jolly will at least try to interpret posts he disagrees with.
I understand exactly....
The wrongfully convicted are a sad consequence of imperfection
Well at least that is sorted out. Which ever poison works best for you. You're probably right either way. Time to round up the usual suspects, eh?
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@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?
Yep.
A dead person never killed anybody.
On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.
Execution ain't murder.
What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?
Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.
We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.
It's not justice, thought. It's a grave injustice.
An Englishman once said that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer, a sentiment that was repeated by your Mr. Franklin.
At least with wrongful imprisonment, the wrong has a chance of being righted.
Only if you look at it as nothing past the grave. Man has imperfect justice, but God's Justice is perfect. He shall know his own, and any errors in this world will be corrected in the next.
So maybe only execute religious people?
If I was going to be executed for a crime I hadn't committed, I would find the idea that it was all OK because of somebody else's religious beliefs to be extremely tiresome.
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Oh look a crack in the judicial system! Get out the bucket of God spackle and fill it with merciful theodicy. That'll surely make it good and bring comfort to all.
To me the invocation of divine justice just seems like a cop out or lame excuse not to make the judicial system less imperfect than it already is.
‘a-blowe yow and be-kele yow wel, and comyth up all with your ease’ ~ attributed to Henry V
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@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?
Yep.
A dead person never killed anybody.
On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.
Execution ain't murder.
What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?
Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.
We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.
It's not justice, thought. It's a grave injustice.
An Englishman once said that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer, a sentiment that was repeated by your Mr. Franklin.
At least with wrongful imprisonment, the wrong has a chance of being righted.
Only if you look at it as nothing past the grave. Man has imperfect justice, but God's Justice is perfect. He shall know his own, and any errors in this world will be corrected in the next.
So maybe only execute religious people?
If I was going to be executed for a crime I hadn't committed, I would find the idea that it was all OK because of somebody else's religious beliefs to be extremely tiresome.
I suspect most people before execution become quite religious.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@renauda said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Oh look a crack in the judicial system! Get out the bucket of God spackle and fill it with merciful theodicy. That'll surely make it good and bring comfort to all.
To me the invocation of divine justice just seems like a cop out or lame excuse not to make the judicial system less imperfect than it already is.
That opinion and $1 (American) will buy you a senior coffee at McDonald's.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?
Yep.
A dead person never killed anybody.
On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.
Execution ain't murder.
What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?
Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.
We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.
It's not justice, thought. It's a grave injustice.
An Englishman once said that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer, a sentiment that was repeated by your Mr. Franklin.
At least with wrongful imprisonment, the wrong has a chance of being righted.
Only if you look at it as nothing past the grave. Man has imperfect justice, but God's Justice is perfect. He shall know his own, and any errors in this world will be corrected in the next.
So maybe only execute religious people?
If I was going to be executed for a crime I hadn't committed, I would find the idea that it was all OK because of somebody else's religious beliefs to be extremely tiresome.
I suspect most people before execution become quite religious.
Using Jesus as an excuse for killing innocent people mostly died out in the middle ages.
I was only joking
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@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Using Jesus as an excuse for killing innocent people mostly died out in the middle ages.
The argument that Jesus would emphatically endorse killing innocent people is hilariously dense. You can't reach the bottom of stupid that runs that deep.
Please love yourself.
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@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
Using Jesus as an excuse for killing innocent people mostly died out in the middle ages.
The argument that Jesus would emphatically endorse killing innocent people is hilariously dense. You can't reach the bottom of stupid that runs that deep.
No, but Jesus had no problem executing guilty people. And he'll have no problem throwing folks into the depths of Hell after the White Throne Judgement, will he?
If you'd like to argue either of those points, back your point up with scripture.
Now, back to your original, silly statement. Jesus does have a problem with executing innocent people, but Jesus doesn't sit as the judge in the courtroom (not that I've seen or heard about) and Jesus doesn't sit in the jury box.
Men do.
Imperfect men, trying to create as much order out of chaos as they can, equitably and fairly. Does the system always work? No. Man is not a perfect being, so perfection is an unobtainable standard. But that does not mean we throw our hands up, don our antifa shirts and descend into anarchy? No, it does not.
We do the best we can, given all the politics, quirks and foibles of mankind. Guess what? In a good system, man gets it right most of the time. According to you, in capital cases, man is 96% right. I think we can tweek that, primarily through better legal representation, and probably get it to about 98%-99% right.
But you are still going to point to that one man out of a hundred. I'm going to point to the 99 who were rightly convicted. Those 99 person are costing me in excess of $2.5M/yr of incarceration.
I'd rather do two things:
- Ensure justice is meted out equitable and fairly.
- Use my $2.5M for something better than housing rapists, murderers and people who douse other people in acid.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
A long time ago, there was someone on the old coffee room whose daughter was kidnapped, raped, and killed.
That was shocking, and as close as I ever got to knowing someone whose family member was the target of some despicable person.
I remember what happened, as told to us. I hope the guy got the death penalty, just based upon what he did.
When it's personal, even slightly personal as in the above, it all takes on a different meaning. It's not just arguing percentages. I hope the bastard fried. Him. THAT PERSON. Not the theoretical person being discussed that did nothing wrong, or at least, that is not brought up as part of the debate.
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@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
I'd rather do two things:
Sounds great to me. As I said from the beginning, I don't care who disagrees with me, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything.
Please love yourself.
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@aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
@jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:
I'd rather do two things:
Sounds great to me. As I said from the beginning, I don't care who disagrees with me, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything.
Ever been around cons much? I have. A lot of them. A good part of our patient population were convicts. And like I said, I was down on The Farm quite a bit in my second career.
I find many murderers to be pretty nice guys. Murder is a crime of passion, a lot of the time. Kinda like the old man I was sharing lunch with, a trustee called "Pops". I asked Pops what he was in for. Murder 2 was the answer. Caught a guy in bed with his wife, so he slapped the snot out of his wife and beat the other guy to death in his front yard.
That's why Pops didn't get the chair. And as I said, he was a pretty genial guy to hang out with.
But some of those guys?
Nasty people. We had one guy who used to come in for bloodwork a good bit...Tied his girlfriend to a kitchen table and skinned her out with a butcher knife. Weird dude. I would have had no problem pulling the switch on him at all. Or the guy who sodomized a preacher's wife in front of him, before cutting her throat and his buddy shot the preacher in the head. Those guys weren't worth $70 of my money per day. They weren't worth 70 cents.
Why let those guys live? Kill it, bury it and move on...
