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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Meanwhile, on Long Island...

Meanwhile, on Long Island...

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  • A Aqua Letifer
    23 Apr 2021, 00:56

    @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

    I used to be on The Farm at least once a month. Sometimes more.

    You really, really don't want to spend a lifetime down there.

    I already said my opinion doesn't come from a place of compassion for nihilistic psychopaths.

    According to your stats, we're getting about 4% of death penalty cases wrong. And guessing that they may have bias, it may not be that high. In an imperfect systen, that's not as bad as it sounds.

    It still boils down to the same problem: it's an imperfect death penalty system. For every X monsters you kill, you're necessarily going to be killing Y innocent people.

    There are a number of ways to come to terms with that. You can criticize stats up to the point where you delude yourself into believing that absolutely everyone who was ever given lethal injection deserved it. Or you can delude yourself into thinking that everyone who was ever killed by the state was a bad person anyway, even if they didn't commit that particular crime. Both of these are horseshit, but people are allowed to believe what they want.

    What would be a little intellectually honest would be to own up to the fact that you're killing innocent people in the process, and that that's just the cost of doing business. People are free to believe that, too. I also find it a completely horseshit position to take for anyone who claims to be anti-abortion for moral reasons, and not one I have to respect or even take seriously, but that's just me. I really don't care who disagrees with me. Most people do.

    C Offline
    C Offline
    Copper
    wrote on 23 Apr 2021, 01:40 last edited by
    #19

    @aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

    For every X monsters you kill, you're necessarily going to be killing Y innocent people.

    For every X monsters you release, you're necessarily going to be killing Y innocent people.

    Pick your poison.

    R M 2 Replies Last reply 23 Apr 2021, 15:21
    • C Copper
      23 Apr 2021, 01:40

      @aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

      For every X monsters you kill, you're necessarily going to be killing Y innocent people.

      For every X monsters you release, you're necessarily going to be killing Y innocent people.

      Pick your poison.

      R Offline
      R Offline
      Renauda
      wrote on 23 Apr 2021, 15:21 last edited by Renauda
      #20

      @copper said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

      @aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

      For every X monsters you kill, you're necessarily going to be killing Y innocent people.

      For every X monsters you release, you're necessarily going to be killing Y innocent people.

      Pick your poison.

      Depends which poison you believe serves the common good for all as opposed to which poison serves the greater good for the greatest number of people. If state execution serves the common good then losing a few innocents in the process is really nothing more than collateral damage. If on the other hand, state execution serves the greater good, then I guess the loss of a few innocents along the way is nothing more than a justified end result to a means of accomplishing a desired goal.

      Which ever poison works best for you. You're probably right either way.

      Elbows up!

      1 Reply Last reply
      • C Copper
        23 Apr 2021, 01:40

        @aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

        For every X monsters you kill, you're necessarily going to be killing Y innocent people.

        For every X monsters you release, you're necessarily going to be killing Y innocent people.

        Pick your poison.

        M Offline
        M Offline
        Mik
        wrote on 23 Apr 2021, 16:04 last edited by
        #21

        @copper said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

        @aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

        For every X monsters you kill, you're necessarily going to be killing Y innocent people.

        For every X monsters you release, you're necessarily going to be killing Y innocent people.

        Pick your poison.

        Not if you don't release them.

        β€œI am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

        1 Reply Last reply
        • D Offline
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          Doctor Phibes
          wrote on 23 Apr 2021, 20:06 last edited by
          #22

          Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?

          I was only joking

          J C 2 Replies Last reply 23 Apr 2021, 20:08
          • D Doctor Phibes
            23 Apr 2021, 20:06

            Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?

            J Offline
            J Offline
            Jolly
            wrote on 23 Apr 2021, 20:08 last edited by
            #23

            @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

            Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?

            Yep.

            A dead person never killed anybody.πŸ˜„

            β€œCry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". β€” Buck Sexton

            A 1 Reply Last reply 23 Apr 2021, 21:05
            • D Doctor Phibes
              23 Apr 2021, 20:06

              Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?

              C Offline
              C Offline
              Copper
              wrote on 23 Apr 2021, 20:26 last edited by
              #24

              @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

              Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate

              ![alt text](01454e0e-4b46-42ee-b1d8-4b9127cb01cd-image.png image url)

              https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-and-research/murder-rates/murder-rate-of-death-penalty-states-compared-to-non-death-penalty-states

              Of course, the thing is that the states with a higher rate are the ones that need it more.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • J Jolly
                23 Apr 2021, 20:08

                @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?

                Yep.

                A dead person never killed anybody.πŸ˜„

                A Offline
                A Offline
                Aqua Letifer
                wrote on 23 Apr 2021, 21:05 last edited by
                #25

                @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?

                Yep.

                A dead person never killed anybody.πŸ˜„

                On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.

                Please love yourself.

                J 1 Reply Last reply 23 Apr 2021, 22:12
                • A Aqua Letifer
                  23 Apr 2021, 21:05

                  @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                  @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                  Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?

                  Yep.

                  A dead person never killed anybody.πŸ˜„

                  On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.

                  J Offline
                  J Offline
                  Jolly
                  wrote on 23 Apr 2021, 22:12 last edited by
                  #26

                  @aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                  @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                  @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                  Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?

                  Yep.

                  A dead person never killed anybody.πŸ˜„

                  On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.

                  Execution ain't murder.

                  β€œCry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". β€” Buck Sexton

                  A D 2 Replies Last reply 23 Apr 2021, 22:16
                  • J Jolly
                    23 Apr 2021, 22:12

                    @aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                    @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                    @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                    Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?

                    Yep.

                    A dead person never killed anybody.πŸ˜„

                    On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.

                    Execution ain't murder.

                    A Offline
                    A Offline
                    Aqua Letifer
                    wrote on 23 Apr 2021, 22:16 last edited by
                    #27

                    @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                    Execution ain't murder.

                    Sure.

                    Please love yourself.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • J Jolly
                      23 Apr 2021, 22:12

                      @aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                      @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                      @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                      Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?

                      Yep.

                      A dead person never killed anybody.πŸ˜„

                      On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.

                      Execution ain't murder.

                      D Offline
                      D Offline
                      Doctor Phibes
                      wrote on 23 Apr 2021, 23:01 last edited by
                      #28

                      @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                      @aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                      @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                      @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                      Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?

                      Yep.

                      A dead person never killed anybody.πŸ˜„

                      On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.

                      Execution ain't murder.

                      What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?

                      I was only joking

                      J 1 Reply Last reply 24 Apr 2021, 00:42
                      • C Offline
                        C Offline
                        Copper
                        wrote on 23 Apr 2021, 23:12 last edited by
                        #29

                        What would you call the killing of an innocent by the murderer that wasn't executed?

                        A price worth paying to achieve woke?

                        What would you call the killing of an innocent by the murderer that wasn't discouraged by possible execution?

                        A price worth paying to achieve woke?

                        OK, that's reasonable.

                        I tend to favor the innocent over the murderer, but to each his own.

                        D 1 Reply Last reply 23 Apr 2021, 23:44
                        • C Copper
                          23 Apr 2021, 23:12

                          What would you call the killing of an innocent by the murderer that wasn't executed?

                          A price worth paying to achieve woke?

                          What would you call the killing of an innocent by the murderer that wasn't discouraged by possible execution?

                          A price worth paying to achieve woke?

                          OK, that's reasonable.

                          I tend to favor the innocent over the murderer, but to each his own.

                          D Offline
                          D Offline
                          Doctor Phibes
                          wrote on 23 Apr 2021, 23:44 last edited by
                          #30

                          @copper said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                          I tend to favor the innocent over the murderer, but to each his own.

                          Except when they've been wrongfully convicted, it would appear.

                          I was only joking

                          A 1 Reply Last reply 24 Apr 2021, 00:10
                          • D Doctor Phibes
                            23 Apr 2021, 23:44

                            @copper said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                            I tend to favor the innocent over the murderer, but to each his own.

                            Except when they've been wrongfully convicted, it would appear.

                            A Offline
                            A Offline
                            Aqua Letifer
                            wrote on 24 Apr 2021, 00:10 last edited by
                            #31

                            @Copper Dude why even reply, it's obvious you're not trying to understand anybody. Jolly will at least try to interpret posts he disagrees with.

                            Please love yourself.

                            C 1 Reply Last reply 24 Apr 2021, 01:39
                            • D Doctor Phibes
                              23 Apr 2021, 23:01

                              @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                              @aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                              @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                              @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                              Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?

                              Yep.

                              A dead person never killed anybody.πŸ˜„

                              On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.

                              Execution ain't murder.

                              What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?

                              J Offline
                              J Offline
                              Jolly
                              wrote on 24 Apr 2021, 00:42 last edited by Jolly
                              #32

                              @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                              @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                              @aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                              @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                              @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                              Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?

                              Yep.

                              A dead person never killed anybody.πŸ˜„

                              On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.

                              Execution ain't murder.

                              What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?

                              Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.

                              We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.

                              β€œCry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". β€” Buck Sexton

                              D 1 Reply Last reply 24 Apr 2021, 03:24
                              • A Aqua Letifer
                                24 Apr 2021, 00:10

                                @Copper Dude why even reply, it's obvious you're not trying to understand anybody. Jolly will at least try to interpret posts he disagrees with.

                                C Offline
                                C Offline
                                Copper
                                wrote on 24 Apr 2021, 01:39 last edited by
                                #33

                                @aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                @Copper Dude why even reply, it's obvious you're not trying to understand anybody. Jolly will at least try to interpret posts he disagrees with.

                                I understand exactly

                                You refuse to consider the whole story, I'm helping you do that

                                The wrongfully convicted are a sad consequence of imperfection

                                But that is not the whole story

                                Stomp your feet if you like, I'll still be here to help

                                R 1 Reply Last reply 24 Apr 2021, 13:58
                                • J Jolly
                                  24 Apr 2021, 00:42

                                  @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                  @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                  @aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                  @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                  @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                  Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?

                                  Yep.

                                  A dead person never killed anybody.πŸ˜„

                                  On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.

                                  Execution ain't murder.

                                  What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?

                                  Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.

                                  We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.

                                  D Offline
                                  D Offline
                                  Doctor Phibes
                                  wrote on 24 Apr 2021, 03:24 last edited by Doctor Phibes
                                  #34

                                  @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                  @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                  @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                  @aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                  @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                  @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                  Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?

                                  Yep.

                                  A dead person never killed anybody.πŸ˜„

                                  On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.

                                  Execution ain't murder.

                                  What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?

                                  Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.

                                  We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.

                                  It's not justice, thought. It's a grave injustice.

                                  An Englishman once said that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer, a sentiment that was repeated by your Mr. Franklin.

                                  At least with wrongful imprisonment, the wrong has a chance of being righted.

                                  I was only joking

                                  J 1 Reply Last reply 24 Apr 2021, 11:33
                                  • D Doctor Phibes
                                    24 Apr 2021, 03:24

                                    @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                    @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                    @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                    @aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                    @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                    @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                    Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?

                                    Yep.

                                    A dead person never killed anybody.πŸ˜„

                                    On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.

                                    Execution ain't murder.

                                    What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?

                                    Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.

                                    We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.

                                    It's not justice, thought. It's a grave injustice.

                                    An Englishman once said that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer, a sentiment that was repeated by your Mr. Franklin.

                                    At least with wrongful imprisonment, the wrong has a chance of being righted.

                                    J Offline
                                    J Offline
                                    Jolly
                                    wrote on 24 Apr 2021, 11:33 last edited by
                                    #35

                                    @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                    @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                    @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                    @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                    @aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                    @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                    @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                    Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?

                                    Yep.

                                    A dead person never killed anybody.πŸ˜„

                                    On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.

                                    Execution ain't murder.

                                    What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?

                                    Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.

                                    We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.

                                    It's not justice, thought. It's a grave injustice.

                                    An Englishman once said that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer, a sentiment that was repeated by your Mr. Franklin.

                                    At least with wrongful imprisonment, the wrong has a chance of being righted.

                                    Only if you look at it as nothing past the grave. Man has imperfect justice, but God's Justice is perfect. He shall know his own, and any errors in this world will be corrected in the next.

                                    β€œCry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". β€” Buck Sexton

                                    D 1 Reply Last reply 24 Apr 2021, 17:02
                                    • C Copper
                                      24 Apr 2021, 01:39

                                      @aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                      @Copper Dude why even reply, it's obvious you're not trying to understand anybody. Jolly will at least try to interpret posts he disagrees with.

                                      I understand exactly

                                      You refuse to consider the whole story, I'm helping you do that

                                      The wrongfully convicted are a sad consequence of imperfection

                                      But that is not the whole story

                                      Stomp your feet if you like, I'll still be here to help

                                      R Offline
                                      R Offline
                                      Renauda
                                      wrote on 24 Apr 2021, 13:58 last edited by Renauda
                                      #36

                                      @copper said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                      @aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                      @Copper Dude why even reply, it's obvious you're not trying to understand anybody. Jolly will at least try to interpret posts he disagrees with.

                                      I understand exactly....

                                      The wrongfully convicted are a sad consequence of imperfection

                                      Well at least that is sorted out. Which ever poison works best for you. You're probably right either way. Time to round up the usual suspects, eh?

                                      Elbows up!

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • J Jolly
                                        24 Apr 2021, 11:33

                                        @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                        @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                        @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                        @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                        @aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                        @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                        @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                        Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?

                                        Yep.

                                        A dead person never killed anybody.πŸ˜„

                                        On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.

                                        Execution ain't murder.

                                        What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?

                                        Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.

                                        We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.

                                        It's not justice, thought. It's a grave injustice.

                                        An Englishman once said that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer, a sentiment that was repeated by your Mr. Franklin.

                                        At least with wrongful imprisonment, the wrong has a chance of being righted.

                                        Only if you look at it as nothing past the grave. Man has imperfect justice, but God's Justice is perfect. He shall know his own, and any errors in this world will be corrected in the next.

                                        D Offline
                                        D Offline
                                        Doctor Phibes
                                        wrote on 24 Apr 2021, 17:02 last edited by Doctor Phibes
                                        #37

                                        @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                        @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                        @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                        @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                        @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                        @aqua-letifer said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                        @jolly said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                        @doctor-phibes said in Meanwhile, on Long Island...:

                                        Is there any evidence that having the death penalty reduces the murder rate?

                                        Yep.

                                        A dead person never killed anybody.πŸ˜„

                                        On the other hand, it kind of increases the murder rate by definition.

                                        Execution ain't murder.

                                        What would you call the killing of an innocent human being? A price worth paying to achieve some undefined and unspecified benefit?

                                        Justice. Sadly, it's imperfect, because man is imperfect. There will always be somebody wrongly convicted. Or wrongly executed.

                                        We do the best we can on this mortal coil and let God take care of the soul.

                                        It's not justice, thought. It's a grave injustice.

                                        An Englishman once said that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer, a sentiment that was repeated by your Mr. Franklin.

                                        At least with wrongful imprisonment, the wrong has a chance of being righted.

                                        Only if you look at it as nothing past the grave. Man has imperfect justice, but God's Justice is perfect. He shall know his own, and any errors in this world will be corrected in the next.

                                        So maybe only execute religious people?

                                        If I was going to be executed for a crime I hadn't committed, I would find the idea that it was all OK because of somebody else's religious beliefs to be extremely tiresome.

                                        I was only joking

                                        J 1 Reply Last reply 24 Apr 2021, 18:43
                                        • R Offline
                                          R Offline
                                          Renauda
                                          wrote on 24 Apr 2021, 17:50 last edited by Renauda
                                          #38

                                          Oh look a crack in the judicial system! Get out the bucket of God spackle and fill it with merciful theodicy. That'll surely make it good and bring comfort to all.

                                          To me the invocation of divine justice just seems like a cop out or lame excuse not to make the judicial system less imperfect than it already is.

                                          Elbows up!

                                          J 1 Reply Last reply 24 Apr 2021, 18:44
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