Interesting
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Some of the same people (not Jolly!) who claim that masks are damaging people, are also frequently the ones saying that Covid isn't actually that bad.
It's hard to argue with that logic.
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@doctor-phibes said in Interesting:
Well that guy definitely doesn't like masks.
If you google the publication that published the article, it's got a pretty checkered history.
I have a feeling Jolly posted it because he's either anti-mask or anti-what-liberals-support.
@aqua-letifer said in Interesting:
@doctor-phibes said in Interesting:
Well that guy definitely doesn't like masks.
If you google the publication that published the article, it's got a pretty checkered history.
I have a feeling Jolly posted it because he's either anti-mask or anti-what-liberals-support.
Nah, I'm pro-freedom.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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@aqua-letifer said in Interesting:
@doctor-phibes said in Interesting:
Well that guy definitely doesn't like masks.
If you google the publication that published the article, it's got a pretty checkered history.
I have a feeling Jolly posted it because he's either anti-mask or anti-what-liberals-support.
Nah, I'm pro-freedom.
@jolly said in Interesting:
@aqua-letifer said in Interesting:
@doctor-phibes said in Interesting:
Well that guy definitely doesn't like masks.
If you google the publication that published the article, it's got a pretty checkered history.
I have a feeling Jolly posted it because he's either anti-mask or anti-what-liberals-support.
Nah, I'm pro-freedom.
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@aqua-letifer said in Interesting:
@doctor-phibes said in Interesting:
Well that guy definitely doesn't like masks.
If you google the publication that published the article, it's got a pretty checkered history.
I have a feeling Jolly posted it because he's either anti-mask or anti-what-liberals-support.
Nah, I'm pro-freedom.
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@renauda said in Interesting:
Depends how you understand the concept of freedom.
It damn sure not Crown-centric as yours is.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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Allowing people to smoke tobacco wherever they damn well please isn't freedom, since it harms other people. The people smoking are actually adversely affecting other people's freedom.
And the the theory of the mask is that it protects others more than the wearer.
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@renauda said in Interesting:
Depends how you understand the concept of freedom.
It damn sure not Crown-centric as yours is.
@jolly said in Interesting:
@renauda said in Interesting:
Depends how you understand the concept of freedom.
It damn sure not Crown-centric as yours is.
I like my Royal Canadian Mint coins, but Canadians have some fetish for the queen and put her profile on every one. The maple leaf side is so much prettier.
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I've always been skeptical of the effectiveness of the masks, particularly when looking at data where masks are used (North Dakota) and not used (South Dakota). Skeptical, however, doesn't mean "denial."
I simply don't know enough, and I really doubt that anyone really does.
But that's not the point.
This is not about my "freedom." My "freedom" is not affected by putting a piece of 3 layer paper on my face. I can still do whatever the hell I want, go wherever the hell I want.
I wear a mask. No big deal. If you think it's a big deal, there's something wrong with your value system.
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@george-k said in Interesting:
...when looking at data...
Data. How does one tell if it is, or if it isn't.
Opinions become "facts," based upon data which is what someone with a title said. Or, it's "data" because it was printed somewhere, a self-serving Journal is good enough. Then, facts become data, or data becomes facts. Not sure how that works. But, all these facts and data certainly fill the airwaves, one can find pretty much facts and data to support a predetermined outcome. Neat system!
Masks curtail or infringe upon my 1st amendment rights of freedom of speech. With a mask, people cannot hear my wisdom
nonsenseas well as without a mask. I'm waiting for a call back from the ACLU. Doubly-neat system! -
@george-k said in Interesting:
...when looking at data...
Data. How does one tell if it is, or if it isn't.
Opinions become "facts," based upon data which is what someone with a title said. Or, it's "data" because it was printed somewhere, a self-serving Journal is good enough. Then, facts become data, or data becomes facts. Not sure how that works. But, all these facts and data certainly fill the airwaves, one can find pretty much facts and data to support a predetermined outcome. Neat system!
Masks curtail or infringe upon my 1st amendment rights of freedom of speech. With a mask, people cannot hear my wisdom
nonsenseas well as without a mask. I'm waiting for a call back from the ACLU. Doubly-neat system!@rainman said in Interesting:
Data. How does one tell if it is, or if it isn't.
Exactly.
The only studies I've seen show that in the operating room, mask do nothing to protect the patient, but do afford protection to the people standing at the table. The anesthesiologist, other personnel, are not affected or protected.
This is for bacterial infections, mind you.
Virus? Who knows?
All we have is retrospective data, trying to compare similar populations which do and do not mandate masks - this is why I bring up the Dakotas.
A controlled study will never be done, and each side of the issue will say "I TOLD you so!" five years from now.
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Therefore...The only real studies we have available have data for protection of the wearer, but no data for whether any disease is transmitted by the wearer.
Again, let me beat on this some more...Mask efficacy is hugely impacted by mask fit and proper wearing of the mask. If many masks are worn incorrectly, or worn past the saturation point, wonder what the transmission stats look like?
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When you can’t wear a mask after 500,000 plus people have died, you really shouldn’t participate in society.
I have no problem with freedom lovers staying home.
I just can’t stomach the arguments anymore and it’s likely to impact the way I vote.
@loki said in Interesting:
When you can’t wear a mask after 500,000 plus people have died, you really shouldn’t participate in society.
I have no problem with freedom lovers staying home.
I just can’t stomach the arguments anymore and it’s likely to impact the way I vote.
Which is fine. Vote any way you wish.
I'm not a one-issue voter (although abortion and the Second Amendment come pretty close).
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@loki said in Interesting:
When you can’t wear a mask after 500,000 plus people have died, you really shouldn’t participate in society.
I have no problem with freedom lovers staying home.
I just can’t stomach the arguments anymore and it’s likely to impact the way I vote.
Which is fine. Vote any way you wish.
I'm not a one-issue voter (although abortion and the Second Amendment come pretty close).
@jolly said in Interesting:
@loki said in Interesting:
When you can’t wear a mask after 500,000 plus people have died, you really shouldn’t participate in society.
I have no problem with freedom lovers staying home.
I just can’t stomach the arguments anymore and it’s likely to impact the way I vote.
Which is fine. Vote any way you wish.
I'm not a one-issue voter (although abortion and the Second Amendment come pretty close).
For me the January 6 assault on the Capitol was a pivotal moment. I could even get passed that except when people still say no to masks and vaccines I personally came to the conclusion that there is no reasoning with this group and I can’t carry their water anymore. One vote is meaningless but I think I represent enough of a chunk of people that if lost so will be all the various GOP seats.
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@jolly said in Interesting:
@loki said in Interesting:
When you can’t wear a mask after 500,000 plus people have died, you really shouldn’t participate in society.
I have no problem with freedom lovers staying home.
I just can’t stomach the arguments anymore and it’s likely to impact the way I vote.
Which is fine. Vote any way you wish.
I'm not a one-issue voter (although abortion and the Second Amendment come pretty close).
For me the January 6 assault on the Capitol was a pivotal moment. I could even get passed that except when people still say no to masks and vaccines I personally came to the conclusion that there is no reasoning with this group and I can’t carry their water anymore. One vote is meaningless but I think I represent enough of a chunk of people that if lost so will be all the various GOP seats.
@loki said in Interesting:
@jolly said in Interesting:
@loki said in Interesting:
When you can’t wear a mask after 500,000 plus people have died, you really shouldn’t participate in society.
I have no problem with freedom lovers staying home.
I just can’t stomach the arguments anymore and it’s likely to impact the way I vote.
Which is fine. Vote any way you wish.
I'm not a one-issue voter (although abortion and the Second Amendment come pretty close).
For me the January 6 assault on the Capitol was a pivotal moment. I could even get passed that except when people still say no to masks and vaccines I personally came to the conclusion that there is no reasoning with this group and I can’t carry their water anymore. One vote is meaningless but I think I represent enough of a chunk of people that if lost so will be all the various GOP seats.
I don't carry water for anybody. I know a bit about politics; I swam in those waters for 34 years. If you want 100% agreement with your views, you're screwed, blued and tatooed. Ain't happening.
Politics is the art of the possible. One never gets a whole loaf, you settle for what you can get that dovetails with your ideaology.
I look at the Capitol stuff like this:
- The crowd was not told by Trump to go riot. Anybody who says otherwise is a damn liar. With an agenda.
- When a minority of the crowd went into riot mode, what were they rioting about? Were they rioting to overturn the Constitution? Were they rioting against the rule of law? Were they rioting to kill babies? Maybe to pack SCOTUS? Or maybe they wanted total anarchy in society, was that it?
No, the idiots who rioted were mad because they thought that an election had been stolen and not every legal vote had been counted properly. They were mad because they thought their rights were being taken away from them.
You know what, turns out they were right about the votes. Maybe they were right about the election...I dunno...Over half of the U.S. public feel that cheating went on during the election. Count me in that majority.
And color me skeptical of government.
Back to the mask argument...
I may be the only one of y'all to walk in a BSL-3 lab. I'm damn sure the only one of us to work in one. I know that level of infection protocol.
I have seen so much shit done wrong in a grocery store during the height of the pandemic, it would probably send you screaming for the exits in terror. I simply prefer not to live my life in fear.
The problem with infection control, is that you can be very, very good and still screw up. Sometimes the screw-up means nothing. Sometimes it does. They used to tell us that a needlestick from an AIDS case presented about 1:200 chance of contracting the disease. Comforting, until you think about flipping a light switch 200 times and one of the times will kill you. But when it's your job, you suit up and you go in the room with a pathogen that has no cure if you screw up.
Or, you get a bit sloppy or give in to societal pressure. That's what I did when I caught COVID. But I did so knowing the risks, and sometimes seeing family you never see, outweighs the known risks. Unlucky me.
I do wear a mask when going in most businesses, even though I've had COVID and both shots. I tend to wear one a bit less nowadays, simply because in most of the places where I shop, most of the people do not have masks on or are wearing them improperly.
At least in my part of the world, people have decided to move on. We may get another spike. We may not. I do know we are looking at a disease (unless one of the variants is a lot different) where better than 98% survive and the highest mortality rates are among the elderly with multiple co-morbidities.
Some common sense is in order. Maybe the masking issue needs a good going-over, with an eye for better data collection.
I do know things have changed a lot in a year. I think they are going to change a lot more. I think we are going to have to live with COVID. I think people will eventually refuse to wear masks. I think a lot of them will simply refuse to be vaccinated, will not have a vaccine card and if you think you are going to keep them away from sporting events, traveling or any of a lot of regular life activities, good luck.
So, figure out what you are going to do and how you are going to live your life. Me? Shucks, I'm on borrowed time, anyway. I'm comfortable with my belief system and I shall not live in fear...I simply do not have enough time left in my life to cower.
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@loki said in Interesting:
@jolly said in Interesting:
@loki said in Interesting:
When you can’t wear a mask after 500,000 plus people have died, you really shouldn’t participate in society.
I have no problem with freedom lovers staying home.
I just can’t stomach the arguments anymore and it’s likely to impact the way I vote.
Which is fine. Vote any way you wish.
I'm not a one-issue voter (although abortion and the Second Amendment come pretty close).
For me the January 6 assault on the Capitol was a pivotal moment. I could even get passed that except when people still say no to masks and vaccines I personally came to the conclusion that there is no reasoning with this group and I can’t carry their water anymore. One vote is meaningless but I think I represent enough of a chunk of people that if lost so will be all the various GOP seats.
I don't carry water for anybody. I know a bit about politics; I swam in those waters for 34 years. If you want 100% agreement with your views, you're screwed, blued and tatooed. Ain't happening.
Politics is the art of the possible. One never gets a whole loaf, you settle for what you can get that dovetails with your ideaology.
I look at the Capitol stuff like this:
- The crowd was not told by Trump to go riot. Anybody who says otherwise is a damn liar. With an agenda.
- When a minority of the crowd went into riot mode, what were they rioting about? Were they rioting to overturn the Constitution? Were they rioting against the rule of law? Were they rioting to kill babies? Maybe to pack SCOTUS? Or maybe they wanted total anarchy in society, was that it?
No, the idiots who rioted were mad because they thought that an election had been stolen and not every legal vote had been counted properly. They were mad because they thought their rights were being taken away from them.
You know what, turns out they were right about the votes. Maybe they were right about the election...I dunno...Over half of the U.S. public feel that cheating went on during the election. Count me in that majority.
And color me skeptical of government.
Back to the mask argument...
I may be the only one of y'all to walk in a BSL-3 lab. I'm damn sure the only one of us to work in one. I know that level of infection protocol.
I have seen so much shit done wrong in a grocery store during the height of the pandemic, it would probably send you screaming for the exits in terror. I simply prefer not to live my life in fear.
The problem with infection control, is that you can be very, very good and still screw up. Sometimes the screw-up means nothing. Sometimes it does. They used to tell us that a needlestick from an AIDS case presented about 1:200 chance of contracting the disease. Comforting, until you think about flipping a light switch 200 times and one of the times will kill you. But when it's your job, you suit up and you go in the room with a pathogen that has no cure if you screw up.
Or, you get a bit sloppy or give in to societal pressure. That's what I did when I caught COVID. But I did so knowing the risks, and sometimes seeing family you never see, outweighs the known risks. Unlucky me.
I do wear a mask when going in most businesses, even though I've had COVID and both shots. I tend to wear one a bit less nowadays, simply because in most of the places where I shop, most of the people do not have masks on or are wearing them improperly.
At least in my part of the world, people have decided to move on. We may get another spike. We may not. I do know we are looking at a disease (unless one of the variants is a lot different) where better than 98% survive and the highest mortality rates are among the elderly with multiple co-morbidities.
Some common sense is in order. Maybe the masking issue needs a good going-over, with an eye for better data collection.
I do know things have changed a lot in a year. I think they are going to change a lot more. I think we are going to have to live with COVID. I think people will eventually refuse to wear masks. I think a lot of them will simply refuse to be vaccinated, will not have a vaccine card and if you think you are going to keep them away from sporting events, traveling or any of a lot of regular life activities, good luck.
So, figure out what you are going to do and how you are going to live your life. Me? Shucks, I'm on borrowed time, anyway. I'm comfortable with my belief system and I shall not live in fear...I simply do not have enough time left in my life to cower.
For the most part I am completely with you. Heck I never had much of an opinion as to whether the masks really made much difference. Actively not wearing one which makes other people feel unsafe is a bright red line for me.
You also probably know the illiberalism and the lying media (and that is not rhetorical) are additional bright red lines for me.
Respecting respectful people from all walks of life is important to me.
As far as voting goes I should say the only stand I have taken is I will not vote for people who won’t affirm that masks and vaccine are top initiatives for this country at this time. Honestly I would be single issue on that because if you can’t empathize with others (masks) and if you don’t see that vaccines at this time are the best path, I have no use for anything else you say.
