China and Taiwan
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@renauda said in China and Taiwan:
why would the West mobilize over Crimea? It is no longer of strategic value to any country, including Russia.
And then, why did Russia move to take over Crimea? If it's of no value, why bother?
Russia's claim to Crimea is every bit as robust as the US claim to Texas.
If you want to be historical, you could say the same thing about Spain's influence on Mexico, or England's claim onto Canada.
Putin knew that and acted knowing that annexation would not bring any military retaliation from either Ukraine or any NATO states.
And China is doing exactly the same thing.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@renauda said in China and Taiwan:
@xenon said in China and Taiwan:
Should we have attacked Russia with conventional weapons after Crimea?
No and why would the West mobilize over Crimea? It is no longer of strategic value to any country, including Russia.
The Crimean question had been the unacknowledged but festering elephant in the room between Russia and Ukraine since the breakup of the USSR. The only reason it was not dealt with earlier was because the US, Britain, France and Russia wanted Ukraine to give up the nuclear weapons on its territory left behind by the Soviet military. In return for the nukes, Ukraine wanted money from the West and a pledge that its borders would remain intact. The Western allies agreed to both the money and the territorial integrity. Russia was willingly on board to take possession of the weapons and destroy them - which it did - but insisted on and agreed to lease the existing naval base in Sevastopol from Ukraine until such time that a decision would be made as to which country, Ukraine or Russia, the territory the Crimean peninsula belonged. The issue was then put on the back burner between Kyiv and Moscow.
Right or wrong, Putin obviously decided that since Crimea had belonged to Russia or following 1917 the Russian Soviet Federative Republic until Khrushchev's time, he saw an immediate opportunity to annex it from Ukraine. While unpalatable to the West, Russia's claim to Crimea is every bit as robust as the US claim to Texas. Putin knew that and acted knowing that annexation would not bring any military retaliation from either Ukraine or any NATO states.
Texas was an independent republic, having won its independence from Mexico. Why wouldn't the Crimean Peninsula belong to Ukraine after the breakup of the U.S.S.R.?
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@george-k said in China and Taiwan:
@renauda said in China and Taiwan:
why would the West mobilize over Crimea? It is no longer of strategic value to any country, including Russia.
And then, why did Russia move to take over Crimea? If it's of no value, why bother?
Russia's claim to Crimea is every bit as robust as the US claim to Texas.
If you want to be historical, you could say the same thing about Spain's influence on Mexico, or England's claim onto Canada.
Putin knew that and acted knowing that annexation would not bring any military retaliation from either Ukraine or any NATO states.
And China is doing exactly the same thing.
Russia annexed the peninsula from the Crimean Khanate in 1783 following fighting between the Christian Russian and Muslim Tatar inhabitants. It was of strategic importance against the Ottomans Empire at the time and remained such until the mid twentieth century. Nuclear weapons and the missile age downgraded its strategic status completely.
England relinquished all its claims to Canada, Australia and New Zealand through a series of Acts of Parliament. There is really no comparison with Russia and Crimea.
Crimea was ceded to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic by the USSR in 1954. Even now the reasons remain unclear and the actual legal and constitutional processes then under Soviet law are also contentious. At the time it was generally considered an inconsequential symbolic gesture by the Russian Soviet Socialist Federative Republic towards the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic to commemorate the 300th anniversary of the Treaty of Pereyaslav. It was likewise inconceivable to Soviet leaders in 1954 that the USSR would dissolve in forty years time and that Russian and Ukraine would become independent states. The question of Crimea did arise between Yelstin and then President of Ukraine, Leonid Kravchuk, when the USSR dissolved. Russia stated that it wanted Crimea returned. Both parties however decided to shelve the issue until such time that the two countries were more politically and economically established and integrated within the C.I.S.. As you are aware though the C.I.S. was a non starter as a successor entity to the USSR.
You are correct, China is claiming what it believes is its territory. It certainly has never recognized Taiwan as a sovereign state. Does this make the case similar to Crimea? I do not know.
“Little by little I am learning the art of being quite content by doing very little slowly” ~ Lionel Hardcastle
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At least at the moment, Taiwan is happy with President Biden and his current response to China. Some new things they have done.
The US just increased allowable senior level interactions between Taiwan officials and US officials.
A US carrier group just sailed next to Taiwan.
So far, from Taiwans eyes, people are good with the response from President Biden and staff.
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@renauda said in China and Taiwan:
You are correct, China is claiming what it believes is its territory. It certainly has never recognized Taiwan as a sovereign state.
An interesting thing is that up until about 1990, many members of the Taiwan parliment represented areas of China. KMT officials who were elected while in mainland China in the late 1940's kept their seats when the KMT moved to Taiwan. And for the next 45 years or so, those people continued to do so. In 1990, most of the people were old, so they discontinued those seats.
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Although I knew the KMT considered itself the legitimate government of China albeit in exile, I wasn't aware of those details.
