French Government Says No to Virginity Test
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Horace is right that it is symbolic. But what it is symbolic of - the subjugation of women - is certainly not something we want to encourage.
while i agree with Jolly that chastity can be a virtue, there is no legitimate health issue in whether a woman is or is not a virgin. I see no reason doctors should be doing this.@mik said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Horace is right that it is symbolic.
It would seem to Horace and perhaps a few others here, that everything the left does is purely symbolic and of little or no substance. But this is not a left right issue. This is a women's issue within a secular society issue. That is too nuanced for him.
Elbows up!
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@mik said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Horace is right that it is symbolic.
It would seem to Horace and perhaps a few others here, that everything the left does is purely symbolic and of little or no substance. But this is not a left right issue. This is a women's issue within a secular society issue. That is too nuanced for him.
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
It would seem to Horace and perhaps a few others here, that everything the left does is purely symbolic and of little or no substance. This is a women's issue within a secular society issue.
Something like this can't be neatly categorized. It is pointless to talk in terms of Muslim vs. non-Muslim. Like Phibbs said, it's not unheard of for young Muslim women to object to this. And like Renauda said, it's a woman's issue. Having some stranger stick his finger up there to see if you're intact -- not meaning to generalize, but it has to be to some degree humiliating to a woman regardless of faith or culture. Be like getting a USDA Inspected stamp on your ass.
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@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
It would seem to Horace and perhaps a few others here, that everything the left does is purely symbolic and of little or no substance. This is a women's issue within a secular society issue.
Something like this can't be neatly categorized. It is pointless to talk in terms of Muslim vs. non-Muslim. Like Phibbs said, it's not unheard of for young Muslim women to object to this. And like Renauda said, it's a woman's issue. Having some stranger stick his finger up there to see if you're intact -- not meaning to generalize, but it has to be to some degree humiliating to a woman regardless of faith or culture. Be like getting a USDA Inspected stamp on your ass.
@catseye3 said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
It would seem to Horace and perhaps a few others here, that everything the left does is purely symbolic and of little or no substance. This is a women's issue within a secular society issue.
Something like this can't be neatly categorized. It is pointless to talk in terms of Muslim vs. non-Muslim. Like Phibbs said, it's not unheard of for young Muslim women to object to this. And like Renauda said, it's a woman's issue. Having some stranger stick his finger up there to see if you're intact -- not meaning to generalize, but it has to be to some degree humiliating to a woman regardless of faith or culture. Be like getting a USDA Inspection stamp on your ass.
I don't think they stamp them, they just issue a certificate....
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@catseye3 said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
It would seem to Horace and perhaps a few others here, that everything the left does is purely symbolic and of little or no substance. This is a women's issue within a secular society issue.
Something like this can't be neatly categorized. It is pointless to talk in terms of Muslim vs. non-Muslim. Like Phibbs said, it's not unheard of for young Muslim women to object to this. And like Renauda said, it's a woman's issue. Having some stranger stick his finger up there to see if you're intact -- not meaning to generalize, but it has to be to some degree humiliating to a woman regardless of faith or culture. Be like getting a USDA Inspection stamp on your ass.
I don't think they stamp them, they just issue a certificate....
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
I don't think they stamp them, they just issue a certificate....
And to what standard does that comply? ISO something or another?
Or are we talking something else entirely? I am sure that certificates were is issued for all kinds of chattel purchases back in the day.
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@mik said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Horace is right that it is symbolic.
It would seem to Horace and perhaps a few others here, that everything the left does is purely symbolic and of little or no substance. But this is not a left right issue. This is a women's issue within a secular society issue. That is too nuanced for him.
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@mik said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Horace is right that it is symbolic.
It would seem to Horace and perhaps a few others here, that everything the left does is purely symbolic and of little or no substance. But this is not a left right issue. This is a women's issue within a secular society issue. That is too nuanced for him.
I suppose it may be too nuanced for me. I look forward to the time you broach upon an idea so nuanced that I hadn't already considered it. I do understand that you tend to use historical references as a crutch to indicate such nuance, but unfortunately for you, I'm too nuanced for that.
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@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@mik said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Horace is right that it is symbolic.
It would seem to Horace and perhaps a few others here, that everything the left does is purely symbolic and of little or no substance. But this is not a left right issue. This is a women's issue within a secular society issue. That is too nuanced for him.
I suppose it may be too nuanced for me. I look forward to the time you broach upon an idea so nuanced that I hadn't already considered it. I do understand that you tend to use historical references as a crutch to indicate such nuance, but unfortunately for you, I'm too nuanced for that.
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Nothing nuanced about wanting to run other people's lives, when there is no demonstrable harm to society.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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Nothing nuanced about wanting to run other people's lives, when there is no demonstrable harm to society.
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Jolly, with all due respect Western civilization has moved beyond women being mere chattels. If Muslims want to perform such abominations in Saudi Arabia or some other country ruled by superstition over reason that is possibly their business, but in France it is as much the the secular Republic's business as much as the family's tribe and patriarchy's so called and imagined honour.
Next you'll be finding excuses for FGM to accommodate their vile acts of superstition.
Elbows up!
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Nothing nuanced about wanting to run other people's lives, when there is no demonstrable harm to society.
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
when there is no demonstrable harm to society.
And what are women in your understanding of 'society'? Chopped liver?
Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka
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@brenda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly There's never any honor killings of the daughters?
I suspect in an honor killing, there are laws broken along with harm done to the individual and to French society.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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Jolly, with all due respect Western civilization has moved beyond women being mere chattels. If Muslims want to perform such abominations in Saudi Arabia or some other country ruled by superstition over reason that is possibly their business, but in France it is as much the the secular Republic's business as much as the family's tribe and patriarchy's so called and imagined honour.
Next you'll be finding excuses for FGM to accommodate their vile acts of superstition.
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Jolly, with all due respect Western civilization has moved beyond women being mere chattels. If Muslims want to perform such abominations in Saudi Arabia or some other country ruled by superstition over reason that is possibly their business, but in France it is as much the the secular Republic's business as much as the family's tribe and patriarchy's so called and imagined honour.
Next you'll be finding excuses for FGM to accommodate their vile acts of superstition.
Would you also outlaw circumcision?
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
when there is no demonstrable harm to society.
And what are women in your understanding of 'society'? Chopped liver?
@catseye3 said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
when there is no demonstrable harm to society.
And what are women in your understanding of 'society'? Chopped liver?
Go back and read what I said.
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@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Jolly, with all due respect Western civilization has moved beyond women being mere chattels. If Muslims want to perform such abominations in Saudi Arabia or some other country ruled by superstition over reason that is possibly their business, but in France it is as much the the secular Republic's business as much as the family's tribe and patriarchy's so called and imagined honour.
Next you'll be finding excuses for FGM to accommodate their vile acts of superstition.
Would you also outlaw circumcision?
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Jolly, with all due respect Western civilization has moved beyond women being mere chattels. If Muslims want to perform such abominations in Saudi Arabia or some other country ruled by superstition over reason that is possibly their business, but in France it is as much the the secular Republic's business as much as the family's tribe and patriarchy's so called and imagined honour.
Next you'll be finding excuses for FGM to accommodate their vile acts of superstition.
Would you also outlaw circumcision?
I'd outlaw female circumcision in a heartbeat. In fact, it is illegal so I don't need to.
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@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Jolly, with all due respect Western civilization has moved beyond women being mere chattels. If Muslims want to perform such abominations in Saudi Arabia or some other country ruled by superstition over reason that is possibly their business, but in France it is as much the the secular Republic's business as much as the family's tribe and patriarchy's so called and imagined honour.
Next you'll be finding excuses for FGM to accommodate their vile acts of superstition.
Would you also outlaw circumcision?
I'd outlaw female circumcision in a heartbeat. In fact, it is illegal so I don't need to.
@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Jolly, with all due respect Western civilization has moved beyond women being mere chattels. If Muslims want to perform such abominations in Saudi Arabia or some other country ruled by superstition over reason that is possibly their business, but in France it is as much the the secular Republic's business as much as the family's tribe and patriarchy's so called and imagined honour.
Next you'll be finding excuses for FGM to accommodate their vile acts of superstition.
Would you also outlaw circumcision?
I'd outlaw female circumcision in a heartbeat.
How about male circumcision?
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@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Jolly, with all due respect Western civilization has moved beyond women being mere chattels. If Muslims want to perform such abominations in Saudi Arabia or some other country ruled by superstition over reason that is possibly their business, but in France it is as much the the secular Republic's business as much as the family's tribe and patriarchy's so called and imagined honour.
Next you'll be finding excuses for FGM to accommodate their vile acts of superstition.
Would you also outlaw circumcision?
I'd outlaw female circumcision in a heartbeat.
How about male circumcision?
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Jolly, with all due respect Western civilization has moved beyond women being mere chattels. If Muslims want to perform such abominations in Saudi Arabia or some other country ruled by superstition over reason that is possibly their business, but in France it is as much the the secular Republic's business as much as the family's tribe and patriarchy's so called and imagined honour.
Next you'll be finding excuses for FGM to accommodate their vile acts of superstition.
Would you also outlaw circumcision?
I'd outlaw female circumcision in a heartbeat.
How about male circumcision?
To be honest, if there's no medical reason for doing it, yes.
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@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Jolly, with all due respect Western civilization has moved beyond women being mere chattels. If Muslims want to perform such abominations in Saudi Arabia or some other country ruled by superstition over reason that is possibly their business, but in France it is as much the the secular Republic's business as much as the family's tribe and patriarchy's so called and imagined honour.
Next you'll be finding excuses for FGM to accommodate their vile acts of superstition.
Would you also outlaw circumcision?
I'd outlaw female circumcision in a heartbeat.
How about male circumcision?
To be honest, if there's no medical reason for doing it, yes.
@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Jolly, with all due respect Western civilization has moved beyond women being mere chattels. If Muslims want to perform such abominations in Saudi Arabia or some other country ruled by superstition over reason that is possibly their business, but in France it is as much the the secular Republic's business as much as the family's tribe and patriarchy's so called and imagined honour.
Next you'll be finding excuses for FGM to accommodate their vile acts of superstition.
Would you also outlaw circumcision?
I'd outlaw female circumcision in a heartbeat.
How about male circumcision?
To be honest, if there's no medical reason for doing it, yes.
In the context of this thread, which is the more invasive procedure (not to mention painful) and more prone to complications, a circumcision or a "virginity check"?
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I just said I'd outlaw it, so what's the point of the question?
The question regarding virginity check has nothing to do with invasiveness, in any event. It's a method used to keep women in their place, and it has no place in a modern liberal society.
I was only joking
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I just said I'd outlaw it, so what's the point of the question?
The question regarding virginity check has nothing to do with invasiveness, in any event. It's a method used to keep women in their place, and it has no place in a modern liberal society.
@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
I just said I'd outlaw it, so what's the point of the question?
The question regarding virginity check has nothing to do with invasiveness, in any event. It's a method used to keep women in their place, and it has no place in a modern liberal society.
The Jewish faith demands circumcision. The Muslim faith highly values the virgin bride. I see more problem with the former than the latter when it comes to personal decisions and the lack of freedom of the individual.
In either case, does it really impact the way society functions?
What business does a modern society enacting laws in either situation create a benefit to society?
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I just said I'd outlaw it, so what's the point of the question?
The question regarding virginity check has nothing to do with invasiveness, in any event. It's a method used to keep women in their place, and it has no place in a modern liberal society.
I would contend that a virginity check is invasive on a woman's right to privacy. Otherwise, I agree wholly with what you have written.
