French Government Says No to Virginity Test
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wrote on 2 Apr 2021, 17:56 last edited by
While you're at it, you might want to check which particular substance is coming out of the right-leaning, too.
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@horace said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
this is all symbol by the left-leaning
Check with a left-leaning woman who gets subjected to this test, see how symbolic she finds it.
wrote on 2 Apr 2021, 18:02 last edited by@catseye3 said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@horace said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
this is all symbol by the left-leaning
Check with a left-leaning woman who gets subjected to this test, see how symbolic she finds it.
Check with a Muslim woman. I dunno, do you think all orthodox Muslim women hate being Muslim? They sure do live under circumstances western women would hate.
Most westerners underestimate the degree to which humans are programmable, right down to the fundamentals of their sense of meaning and happiness.
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wrote on 2 Apr 2021, 18:06 last edited by Doctor Phibes 4 Feb 2021, 18:07
I had some close friends in England who were Muslim, born in the 60's and 70's, and some of the things that their parents, who were not British born, expected of them did not sit well with them, but they would go along with it so as not to cause trouble.
Children and young adults being subjected to this sort-of-unwillingly is not really defensible.
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Horace is right that it is symbolic. But what it is symbolic of - the subjugation of women - is certainly not something we want to encourage.
while i agree with Jolly that chastity can be a virtue, there is no legitimate health issue in whether a woman is or is not a virgin. I see no reason doctors should be doing this.wrote on 2 Apr 2021, 19:10 last edited by Renauda 4 Feb 2021, 19:12@mik said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Horace is right that it is symbolic.
It would seem to Horace and perhaps a few others here, that everything the left does is purely symbolic and of little or no substance. But this is not a left right issue. This is a women's issue within a secular society issue. That is too nuanced for him.
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@mik said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Horace is right that it is symbolic.
It would seem to Horace and perhaps a few others here, that everything the left does is purely symbolic and of little or no substance. But this is not a left right issue. This is a women's issue within a secular society issue. That is too nuanced for him.
wrote on 2 Apr 2021, 19:43 last edited by Catseye3 4 Mar 2021, 12:16@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
It would seem to Horace and perhaps a few others here, that everything the left does is purely symbolic and of little or no substance. This is a women's issue within a secular society issue.
Something like this can't be neatly categorized. It is pointless to talk in terms of Muslim vs. non-Muslim. Like Phibbs said, it's not unheard of for young Muslim women to object to this. And like Renauda said, it's a woman's issue. Having some stranger stick his finger up there to see if you're intact -- not meaning to generalize, but it has to be to some degree humiliating to a woman regardless of faith or culture. Be like getting a USDA Inspected stamp on your ass.
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@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
It would seem to Horace and perhaps a few others here, that everything the left does is purely symbolic and of little or no substance. This is a women's issue within a secular society issue.
Something like this can't be neatly categorized. It is pointless to talk in terms of Muslim vs. non-Muslim. Like Phibbs said, it's not unheard of for young Muslim women to object to this. And like Renauda said, it's a woman's issue. Having some stranger stick his finger up there to see if you're intact -- not meaning to generalize, but it has to be to some degree humiliating to a woman regardless of faith or culture. Be like getting a USDA Inspected stamp on your ass.
wrote on 2 Apr 2021, 20:42 last edited by@catseye3 said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
It would seem to Horace and perhaps a few others here, that everything the left does is purely symbolic and of little or no substance. This is a women's issue within a secular society issue.
Something like this can't be neatly categorized. It is pointless to talk in terms of Muslim vs. non-Muslim. Like Phibbs said, it's not unheard of for young Muslim women to object to this. And like Renauda said, it's a woman's issue. Having some stranger stick his finger up there to see if you're intact -- not meaning to generalize, but it has to be to some degree humiliating to a woman regardless of faith or culture. Be like getting a USDA Inspection stamp on your ass.
I don't think they stamp them, they just issue a certificate....
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@catseye3 said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
It would seem to Horace and perhaps a few others here, that everything the left does is purely symbolic and of little or no substance. This is a women's issue within a secular society issue.
Something like this can't be neatly categorized. It is pointless to talk in terms of Muslim vs. non-Muslim. Like Phibbs said, it's not unheard of for young Muslim women to object to this. And like Renauda said, it's a woman's issue. Having some stranger stick his finger up there to see if you're intact -- not meaning to generalize, but it has to be to some degree humiliating to a woman regardless of faith or culture. Be like getting a USDA Inspection stamp on your ass.
I don't think they stamp them, they just issue a certificate....
wrote on 2 Apr 2021, 21:27 last edited by Renauda 4 Feb 2021, 22:55@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
I don't think they stamp them, they just issue a certificate....
And to what standard does that comply? ISO something or another?
Or are we talking something else entirely? I am sure that certificates were is issued for all kinds of chattel purchases back in the day.
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@mik said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Horace is right that it is symbolic.
It would seem to Horace and perhaps a few others here, that everything the left does is purely symbolic and of little or no substance. But this is not a left right issue. This is a women's issue within a secular society issue. That is too nuanced for him.
wrote on 2 Apr 2021, 21:57 last edited by Horace 4 Feb 2021, 21:57@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@mik said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Horace is right that it is symbolic.
It would seem to Horace and perhaps a few others here, that everything the left does is purely symbolic and of little or no substance. But this is not a left right issue. This is a women's issue within a secular society issue. That is too nuanced for him.
I suppose it may be too nuanced for me. I look forward to the time you broach upon an idea so nuanced that I hadn't already considered it. I do understand that you tend to use historical references as a crutch to indicate such nuance, but unfortunately for you, I'm too nuanced for that.
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@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@mik said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Horace is right that it is symbolic.
It would seem to Horace and perhaps a few others here, that everything the left does is purely symbolic and of little or no substance. But this is not a left right issue. This is a women's issue within a secular society issue. That is too nuanced for him.
I suppose it may be too nuanced for me. I look forward to the time you broach upon an idea so nuanced that I hadn't already considered it. I do understand that you tend to use historical references as a crutch to indicate such nuance, but unfortunately for you, I'm too nuanced for that.
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wrote on 3 Apr 2021, 03:32 last edited by
Nothing nuanced about wanting to run other people's lives, when there is no demonstrable harm to society.
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Nothing nuanced about wanting to run other people's lives, when there is no demonstrable harm to society.
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wrote on 3 Apr 2021, 04:05 last edited by Renauda 4 Mar 2021, 04:15
Jolly, with all due respect Western civilization has moved beyond women being mere chattels. If Muslims want to perform such abominations in Saudi Arabia or some other country ruled by superstition over reason that is possibly their business, but in France it is as much the the secular Republic's business as much as the family's tribe and patriarchy's so called and imagined honour.
Next you'll be finding excuses for FGM to accommodate their vile acts of superstition.
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Nothing nuanced about wanting to run other people's lives, when there is no demonstrable harm to society.
wrote on 3 Apr 2021, 12:17 last edited by@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
when there is no demonstrable harm to society.
And what are women in your understanding of 'society'? Chopped liver?
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wrote on 3 Apr 2021, 12:21 last edited by
@brenda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly There's never any honor killings of the daughters?
I suspect in an honor killing, there are laws broken along with harm done to the individual and to French society.
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Jolly, with all due respect Western civilization has moved beyond women being mere chattels. If Muslims want to perform such abominations in Saudi Arabia or some other country ruled by superstition over reason that is possibly their business, but in France it is as much the the secular Republic's business as much as the family's tribe and patriarchy's so called and imagined honour.
Next you'll be finding excuses for FGM to accommodate their vile acts of superstition.
wrote on 3 Apr 2021, 12:25 last edited by@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Jolly, with all due respect Western civilization has moved beyond women being mere chattels. If Muslims want to perform such abominations in Saudi Arabia or some other country ruled by superstition over reason that is possibly their business, but in France it is as much the the secular Republic's business as much as the family's tribe and patriarchy's so called and imagined honour.
Next you'll be finding excuses for FGM to accommodate their vile acts of superstition.
Would you also outlaw circumcision?
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@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
when there is no demonstrable harm to society.
And what are women in your understanding of 'society'? Chopped liver?
wrote on 3 Apr 2021, 12:25 last edited by@catseye3 said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
when there is no demonstrable harm to society.
And what are women in your understanding of 'society'? Chopped liver?
Go back and read what I said.
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@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Jolly, with all due respect Western civilization has moved beyond women being mere chattels. If Muslims want to perform such abominations in Saudi Arabia or some other country ruled by superstition over reason that is possibly their business, but in France it is as much the the secular Republic's business as much as the family's tribe and patriarchy's so called and imagined honour.
Next you'll be finding excuses for FGM to accommodate their vile acts of superstition.
Would you also outlaw circumcision?
wrote on 3 Apr 2021, 13:59 last edited by Doctor Phibes 4 Mar 2021, 14:00@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Jolly, with all due respect Western civilization has moved beyond women being mere chattels. If Muslims want to perform such abominations in Saudi Arabia or some other country ruled by superstition over reason that is possibly their business, but in France it is as much the the secular Republic's business as much as the family's tribe and patriarchy's so called and imagined honour.
Next you'll be finding excuses for FGM to accommodate their vile acts of superstition.
Would you also outlaw circumcision?
I'd outlaw female circumcision in a heartbeat. In fact, it is illegal so I don't need to.
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@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Jolly, with all due respect Western civilization has moved beyond women being mere chattels. If Muslims want to perform such abominations in Saudi Arabia or some other country ruled by superstition over reason that is possibly their business, but in France it is as much the the secular Republic's business as much as the family's tribe and patriarchy's so called and imagined honour.
Next you'll be finding excuses for FGM to accommodate their vile acts of superstition.
Would you also outlaw circumcision?
I'd outlaw female circumcision in a heartbeat. In fact, it is illegal so I don't need to.
wrote on 3 Apr 2021, 14:00 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Jolly, with all due respect Western civilization has moved beyond women being mere chattels. If Muslims want to perform such abominations in Saudi Arabia or some other country ruled by superstition over reason that is possibly their business, but in France it is as much the the secular Republic's business as much as the family's tribe and patriarchy's so called and imagined honour.
Next you'll be finding excuses for FGM to accommodate their vile acts of superstition.
Would you also outlaw circumcision?
I'd outlaw female circumcision in a heartbeat.
How about male circumcision?
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@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Jolly, with all due respect Western civilization has moved beyond women being mere chattels. If Muslims want to perform such abominations in Saudi Arabia or some other country ruled by superstition over reason that is possibly their business, but in France it is as much the the secular Republic's business as much as the family's tribe and patriarchy's so called and imagined honour.
Next you'll be finding excuses for FGM to accommodate their vile acts of superstition.
Would you also outlaw circumcision?
I'd outlaw female circumcision in a heartbeat.
How about male circumcision?
wrote on 3 Apr 2021, 14:01 last edited by@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Jolly, with all due respect Western civilization has moved beyond women being mere chattels. If Muslims want to perform such abominations in Saudi Arabia or some other country ruled by superstition over reason that is possibly their business, but in France it is as much the the secular Republic's business as much as the family's tribe and patriarchy's so called and imagined honour.
Next you'll be finding excuses for FGM to accommodate their vile acts of superstition.
Would you also outlaw circumcision?
I'd outlaw female circumcision in a heartbeat.
How about male circumcision?
To be honest, if there's no medical reason for doing it, yes.
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@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Jolly, with all due respect Western civilization has moved beyond women being mere chattels. If Muslims want to perform such abominations in Saudi Arabia or some other country ruled by superstition over reason that is possibly their business, but in France it is as much the the secular Republic's business as much as the family's tribe and patriarchy's so called and imagined honour.
Next you'll be finding excuses for FGM to accommodate their vile acts of superstition.
Would you also outlaw circumcision?
I'd outlaw female circumcision in a heartbeat.
How about male circumcision?
To be honest, if there's no medical reason for doing it, yes.
wrote on 3 Apr 2021, 14:04 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Jolly, with all due respect Western civilization has moved beyond women being mere chattels. If Muslims want to perform such abominations in Saudi Arabia or some other country ruled by superstition over reason that is possibly their business, but in France it is as much the the secular Republic's business as much as the family's tribe and patriarchy's so called and imagined honour.
Next you'll be finding excuses for FGM to accommodate their vile acts of superstition.
Would you also outlaw circumcision?
I'd outlaw female circumcision in a heartbeat.
How about male circumcision?
To be honest, if there's no medical reason for doing it, yes.
In the context of this thread, which is the more invasive procedure (not to mention painful) and more prone to complications, a circumcision or a "virginity check"?