Our real estate market is nuts
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We moved to our current place in 2017. It is not exactly the center of the world. It's a small village (5000 people), close to two medium cities (100,000 people) and around 45min from Stuttgart (600,000 people). If you'd drive through it, you'd forget about it again three minutes later. Very unremarkable.
When we bought our property here, we paid 330 Euro per square meter, which we considered to be quite expensive at the time. But right now a few properties close to ours are on the market, and they are auctioned for a minimum price of 1,000 Euros per square meter. No normal family with an average income can afford to buy something here anymore.
It's not that there isn't any free ground left. It's a political decision to not let cities grow (green party philosophy).
It's too fucking crowded here. If it weren't for the jobs, we'd be tempted to sell everything and buy a big ranch in, say, Montana, or Namibia instead
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That the same problem in our cities. Make it impossible to build and then lament housing cost increases.
Then they form âaffordable housingâ committees which subsidize housing for a lucky few, which does nothing to increase supply and, at the margin, raises demand.
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Wait.
Correct me if my math is wrong here....
1 square meter = 10.76 square feet
1 euro = $1.191000 euro = $1190
$1190/10.76 is $110.6 per square foot.
The Cheddarshack, when we bought it in 1996 was about $106/square foot. We sold the old house (pre-condo) and it was $163 per square foot.
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I'm talking about property price, not price per square meter of living space. Living space here would be in the ballpark range of 5000 Euro per square meter.
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I'm talking about property price, not price per square meter of living space. Living space here would be in the ballpark range of 5000 Euro per square meter.
@klaus said in Our real estate market is nuts:
I'm talking about property price
Ah, that wasn't clear to me. But, I'm only about 10% into my 1st cup of coffee.
Then living space ends up being about $560/square foot. Yeah, that's pricey.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@klaus said in Our real estate market is nuts:
I'm talking about property price
Ah, that wasn't clear to me. But, I'm only about 10% into my 1st cup of coffee.
Then living space ends up being about $560/square foot. Yeah, that's pricey.
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We sold in Brooklyn for a tad over 1k/sq ft and bought here for less than half that.
But one would expect that in a trendy neighborhood in NYC. Not in Klaus's town.
@jon-nyc said in Our real estate market is nuts:
We sold in Brooklyn for a tad over 1k/sq ft and bought here for less than half that.
But one would expect that in a trendy neighborhood in NYC. Not in Klaus's town.
Exactly. You've been here, so you know it's not a spectacular place in any way
I do wonder, though, how much the excessive property taxes you have to pay lower the prices. -
NYC has very reasonable property taxes. Quite low actually. They tax incomes (at city level, above and beyond federal and state) and of course they have business taxes of various sorts. So they rely little on property tax.
Westchester has the crazy taxes and it certainly does suppress housing prices.
Only non-witches get due process.
- Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
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@george-k said in Our real estate market is nuts:
Then living space ends up being about $560/square foot. Yeah, that's pricey.
How much would living space cost in apartments like yours, in the suburbs of Chicago?
@klaus said in Our real estate market is nuts:
How much would living space cost in apartments like yours, in the suburbs of Chicago?
About $300/square foot.
In another suburb, this home is listed for $449K:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/940-S-Euclid-Ave-Oak-Park-IL-60304/3817268_zpid/
$273/square foot.
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NYC has very reasonable property taxes. Quite low actually. They tax incomes (at city level, above and beyond federal and state) and of course they have business taxes of various sorts. So they rely little on property tax.
Westchester has the crazy taxes and it certainly does suppress housing prices.
@jon-nyc said in Our real estate market is nuts:
NYC has very reasonable property taxes. Quite low actually.
I haven't looked in a while, but that's my impression of Chicago as well.
A 3 bedroom condo in the Hancock Building, 1700 square feet, is about $695K.
HOA fees are $1500 monthly (that's pretty steep), but the taxes are $9300 per year, which is less than I pay.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/175-E-Delaware-Pl-APT-6605-Chicago-IL-60611/3850275_zpid/
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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I try not to bite in my shoe when thinking that I could live an hour from Carnegie Hall or Chicago Symphony Hall for the same money.
@klaus said in Our real estate market is nuts:
try not to bite in my shoe when thinking that I could live an hour from Carnegie Hall or Chicago Symphony Hall for the same money.
Actually, I'm about 30 minutes, if I take a cab from the train station. 45 minutes if I walk.
(insert "rub it in" gif here)
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@jon-nyc said in Our real estate market is nuts:
NYC has very reasonable property taxes. Quite low actually.
I haven't looked in a while, but that's my impression of Chicago as well.
A 3 bedroom condo in the Hancock Building, 1700 square feet, is about $695K.
HOA fees are $1500 monthly (that's pretty steep), but the taxes are $9300 per year, which is less than I pay.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/175-E-Delaware-Pl-APT-6605-Chicago-IL-60611/3850275_zpid/
@george-k said in Our real estate market is nuts:
@jon-nyc said in Our real estate market is nuts:
NYC has very reasonable property taxes. Quite low actually.
I haven't looked in a while, but that's my impression of Chicago as well.
A 3 bedroom condo in the Hancock Building, 1700 square feet, is about $695K.
HOA fees are $1500 monthly (that's pretty steep), but the taxes are $9300 per year, which is less than I pay.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/175-E-Delaware-Pl-APT-6605-Chicago-IL-60611/3850275_zpid/
Wait, but that still adds up to $27.300 in housing expenses per year!
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@george-k said in Our real estate market is nuts:
@jon-nyc said in Our real estate market is nuts:
NYC has very reasonable property taxes. Quite low actually.
I haven't looked in a while, but that's my impression of Chicago as well.
A 3 bedroom condo in the Hancock Building, 1700 square feet, is about $695K.
HOA fees are $1500 monthly (that's pretty steep), but the taxes are $9300 per year, which is less than I pay.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/175-E-Delaware-Pl-APT-6605-Chicago-IL-60611/3850275_zpid/
Wait, but that still adds up to $27.300 in housing expenses per year!
@klaus said in Our real estate market is nuts:
Wait, but that still adds up to $27.300 in housing expenses per year!
Yes. But, the HOA fees (Homeowner's Association) is the bulk of that. This is the 66th floor of a very trendy building in a very trendy neighborhood.
If you're willing to buy out in the suburbs, HOA fees are typically less than $500 for a comparable unit.
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@jon-nyc said in Our real estate market is nuts:
NYC has very reasonable property taxes. Quite low actually.
I haven't looked in a while, but that's my impression of Chicago as well.
A 3 bedroom condo in the Hancock Building, 1700 square feet, is about $695K.
HOA fees are $1500 monthly (that's pretty steep), but the taxes are $9300 per year, which is less than I pay.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/175-E-Delaware-Pl-APT-6605-Chicago-IL-60611/3850275_zpid/
@george-k said in Our real estate market is nuts:
@jon-nyc said in Our real estate market is nuts:
NYC has very reasonable property taxes. Quite low actually.
I haven't looked in a while, but that's my impression of Chicago as well.
A 3 bedroom condo in the Hancock Building, 1700 square feet, is about $695K.
HOA fees are $1500 monthly (that's pretty steep), but the taxes are $9300 per year, which is less than I pay.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/175-E-Delaware-Pl-APT-6605-Chicago-IL-60611/3850275_zpid/
My property taxes are less than half that and I live in a township so no local income tax. We have outstanding schools. I wouldn't call your area reasonable.
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@george-k said in Our real estate market is nuts:
@jon-nyc said in Our real estate market is nuts:
NYC has very reasonable property taxes. Quite low actually.
I haven't looked in a while, but that's my impression of Chicago as well.
A 3 bedroom condo in the Hancock Building, 1700 square feet, is about $695K.
HOA fees are $1500 monthly (that's pretty steep), but the taxes are $9300 per year, which is less than I pay.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/175-E-Delaware-Pl-APT-6605-Chicago-IL-60611/3850275_zpid/
My property taxes are less than half that and I live in a township so no local income tax. We have outstanding schools. I wouldn't call your area reasonable.
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@mik said in Our real estate market is nuts:
I meant half your taxes in Riverside.
Oh, OK. Yeah, there's no question our taxes are high, but that's because we have no retail base in our town. The bulk of our tax revenue (non residential) comes from a couple of gas stations.
