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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Miami serology test

Miami serology test

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  • HoraceH Offline
    HoraceH Offline
    Horace
    wrote on last edited by
    #6

    @jon-nyc said in Miami serology test:

    One other concern is the sensitivity of these tests is still unclear, but is not really as high as it needs to be for areas with low prevalence. For example, the possibility of zero people with antibodies in Santa Clara (IOW, all positives being false positives) was well within the error bands of the test.

    That's hard to believe. Where did you get that from?

    Education is extremely important.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • jon-nycJ Online
      jon-nycJ Online
      jon-nyc
      wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
      #7

      It was from a thread on twitter, I’ll see if I can find it. It’s so hard to find twitter threads days old though.

      And think Andrew Gelman’s blog discussed it too.

      Only non-witches get due process.

      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
      1 Reply Last reply
      • HoraceH Offline
        HoraceH Offline
        Horace
        wrote on last edited by
        #8

        Such a test on such a sample size would seem nearly useless, and reporting its results as if they were even potentially important, would seem scientifically negligent.

        Education is extremely important.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • jon-nycJ Online
          jon-nycJ Online
          jon-nyc
          wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
          #9

          So - their actual sample had 50 positives out of 3330. A 98.5% specificity would give an expected value of 50 false positives in a sample that size.

          They took two estimates for specificity, one from a test performed by the test manufacturer and one that they performed.

          The manufacturer’s estimate (based on a sample size of 371) was 99.5% with a 95 CI of 98.1-99.9. Their own estimate based on a sample of 30 gave an estimate of 100% with a 95 CI of 90.5-100.

          The ranges they give in their study - in other words when the give a range of IFR and case prevalence - it does not include the confidence intervals, rather it’s based on the two point estimates 99.5 and 100. So the lower bound they give is based on a 99.5% specificity, the upper bound 100%. Confidence intervals be damned.

          All that data is either in the preprint on MedRxiv or the supplement, quoted by Carl Zimmer in a twitter thread.

          Disclaimer: I’ve not seen the supplement

          Only non-witches get due process.

          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
          HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
          • jon-nycJ Online
            jon-nycJ Online
            jon-nyc
            wrote on last edited by
            #10

            Oh, and did I mention that they got the 3330 people by advertising on Facebook?

            Did I further mention that the further away from the test site people lived the higher their chances of testing positive? But there were fewer of them (who wants to drive an hour for a study?) so they had to give them extra weighting.

            Only non-witches get due process.

            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
            1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

              So - their actual sample had 50 positives out of 3330. A 98.5% specificity would give an expected value of 50 false positives in a sample that size.

              They took two estimates for specificity, one from a test performed by the test manufacturer and one that they performed.

              The manufacturer’s estimate (based on a sample size of 371) was 99.5% with a 95 CI of 98.1-99.9. Their own estimate based on a sample of 30 gave an estimate of 100% with a 95 CI of 90.5-100.

              The ranges they give in their study - in other words when the give a range of IFR and case prevalence - it does not include the confidence intervals, rather it’s based on the two point estimates 99.5 and 100. So the lower bound they give is based on a 99.5% specificity, the upper bound 100%. Confidence intervals be damned.

              All that data is either in the preprint on MedRxiv or the supplement, quoted by Carl Zimmer in a twitter thread.

              Disclaimer: I’ve not seen the supplement

              HoraceH Offline
              HoraceH Offline
              Horace
              wrote on last edited by
              #11

              @jon-nyc said in Miami serology test:

              So - their actual sample had 50 positives out of 3330. A 98.5% specificity would give an expected value of 50 false positives in a sample that size.

              They took two estimates for specificity, one from a test performed by the test manufacturer and one that they performed.

              The manufacturer’s estimate (based on a sample size of 371) was 99.5% with a 95 CI of 98.1-99.9. Their own estimate based on a sample of 30 gave an estimate of 100% with a 95 CI of 90.5-100.

              The ranges they give in their study - in other words when the give a range of IFR and case prevalence - it does not include the confidence intervals, rather it’s based on the two point estimates 99.5 and 100. So the lower bound they give is based on a 99.5% specificity, the upper bound 100%. Confidence intervals be damned.

              All that data is either in the preprint on MedRxiv or the supplement, quoted by Carl Zimmer in a twitter thread.

              Disclaimer: I’ve not seen the supplement

              Well if there's an expected random false positive count of 50 and they find 50 then if you had to bet on the real number of positives, you would bet zero. Zero would not just be "in the error margin", it would be the statistically most likely value of the true number of positives.

              Education is extremely important.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nyc
                wrote on last edited by
                #12

                Right

                Only non-witches get due process.

                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                1 Reply Last reply
                • HoraceH Offline
                  HoraceH Offline
                  Horace
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #13

                  That seems too statistically negligent to believe.

                  Education is extremely important.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • jon-nycJ Online
                    jon-nycJ Online
                    jon-nyc
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #14

                    Reread my posts. I didn’t say 98.5 was the number. That was just to point out how high a specificity would be consistent with 50 as an expected value even if there were in fact zero.

                    I discuss the actual estimates later in the post.

                    Only non-witches get due process.

                    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ Online
                      jon-nycJ Online
                      jon-nyc
                      wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                      #15

                      Honestly this effort seemed unprofessional to me and I’m only an armchair statistician. lol

                      Only non-witches get due process.

                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
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