Who killed Ashli Babbitt?
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wrote on 25 Feb 2021, 15:11 last edited by George K
I don't dispute any of your hypotheticals. I'm not even sure I dispute the legitimacy of his actions, though "firing into a crowd" is questionable, no?
Your defense of the secrecy of the identity of the shooter is simply because he or his family might be threatened. Every time a LEO is involved in a fatality, all the details are examined and made public. Why not here?
If a mob rushed the whitehouse which numerically greatly overwhelmed those protecting it, would you expect the secret service to open fire? Of course.
But that's not what happened. She was shot as she crawled through a broken window.
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wrote on 25 Feb 2021, 15:57 last edited by
I’d like for there to be consistency in our approach to police use of force. The same criteria should apply to the Ashli shooter as in other cases. We just went through billions and billions of dollars related to violence and media super saturation associated with “defund the police”.
It’s worth highlighting this case for that reason alone. Let’s send it through the same lens.
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I don't dispute any of your hypotheticals. I'm not even sure I dispute the legitimacy of his actions, though "firing into a crowd" is questionable, no?
Your defense of the secrecy of the identity of the shooter is simply because he or his family might be threatened. Every time a LEO is involved in a fatality, all the details are examined and made public. Why not here?
If a mob rushed the whitehouse which numerically greatly overwhelmed those protecting it, would you expect the secret service to open fire? Of course.
But that's not what happened. She was shot as she crawled through a broken window.
wrote on 25 Feb 2021, 16:24 last edited by jon-nyc@george-k said in Who killed Ashli Babbitt?:
If a mob rushed the whitehouse which numerically greatly overwhelmed those protecting it, would you expect the secret service to open fire? Of course.
But that's not what happened. She was shot as she crawled through a broken window.
It's not precisely what happened but it's pretty close, just a different branch of government. There was a barricaded door, behind which many members of congress were holed up. The mob was trying to breach the entrance and eventually broke the window. Then the woman personally breached it. The lieutenant shot the person breaching the barricade. He didn't 'fire into the crowd'.
Did you watch the video I posted above?
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wrote on 25 Feb 2021, 16:25 last edited by jon-nyc
Just think, if Trump hadn't architected the Great Lie that woman would be happily spreading memes about fake snow today instead of lying in a box underground.
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@george-k said in Who killed Ashli Babbitt?:
If a mob rushed the whitehouse which numerically greatly overwhelmed those protecting it, would you expect the secret service to open fire? Of course.
But that's not what happened. She was shot as she crawled through a broken window.
It's not precisely what happened but it's pretty close, just a different branch of government. There was a barricaded door, behind which many members of congress were holed up. The mob was trying to breach the entrance and eventually broke the window. Then the woman personally breached it. The lieutenant shot the person breaching the barricade. He didn't 'fire into the crowd'.
Did you watch the video I posted above?
wrote on 25 Feb 2021, 16:27 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Who killed Ashli Babbitt?:
It's not precisely what happened but it's pretty close, just a different branch of government. There was a barricaded door, behind which many members of congress were holed up. The mob was trying to breach the entrance and eventually broke the window. Then the woman personally breached it. The lieutenant shot the person breaching the barricade. He didn't 'fire into the crowd'.
Oh - and it was a success. He neutralized the threat. The rest of the mob dispersed after he took out the first one to breach the barricade.
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wrote on 25 Feb 2021, 16:32 last edited by
I'm still amazed that only one person was shot.
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wrote on 25 Feb 2021, 16:40 last edited by jon-nyc
Honestly when a large mob overwhelms the force protecting a branch of government a hail of gunfire is probably indicated.
Would anybody expect otherwise had it been the White House?
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Just think, if Trump hadn't architected the Great Lie that woman would be happily spreading memes about fake snow today instead of lying in a box underground.
wrote on 25 Feb 2021, 16:42 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Who killed Ashli Babbitt?:
Just think, if Trump hadn't architected the Great Lie that woman would be happily spreading memes about fake snow today instead of lying in a box underground.
I guess you didn’t listen to or dismissed Sam Harris’s podcast with General McChrystal and Chris Fussell.
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Honestly when a large mob overwhelms the force protecting a branch of government a hail of gunfire is probably indicated.
Would anybody expect otherwise had it been the White House?
wrote on 25 Feb 2021, 16:47 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Who killed Ashli Babbitt?:
Honestly when a large mob overwhelms the force protecting a branch of government a hail of indiscriminate gunfire is probably indicated.
Would anybody expect otherwise had it been the White House?
Security was abhorrent. The Mayor begged for no national guard presence. Capitol police was biased based on prior events of this nature. Right wing unrest was building for decades.
The 250+ arrested were 2/3 over 34, only 13% members of right wing groups, 40% were biz owners and or white collar, and only 9% unemployed. I can only imagine the other thousands were probably even more of that nature. Not your typical riot crowd if you were evaluating your invaders in real time.
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wrote on 25 Feb 2021, 16:49 last edited by jon-nyc
Imagine if it was the white house. Would anybody have pondered the demographics and employment status of the crowd rushing the building?
Or would they have done what then needed to do to stop it?
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wrote on 25 Feb 2021, 16:56 last edited by
Less than a year ago the Secret Service shot a man outside the white house complex that they deemed a threat.
They didn't release the shooter's name.
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wrote on 25 Feb 2021, 16:57 last edited by
Anyone with any relationship to Congress the capitol police or FBI or Secret Service knows exactly who shot that woman.
That kind of information would spread instantly in any organization.
How has it been kept quiet is the question.
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wrote on 25 Feb 2021, 17:37 last edited by
Miriam Carey... Still don't know who shot her, either.
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Less than a year ago the Secret Service shot a man outside the white house complex that they deemed a threat.
They didn't release the shooter's name.
wrote on 25 Feb 2021, 17:38 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Who killed Ashli Babbitt?:
Less than a year ago the Secret Service shot a man outside the white house complex that they deemed a threat.
They didn't release the shooter's name.
That could be an inconvenient fact for some who feel they have a need to know about the Babbitt shooting.
I am certain that an internal investigation has already taken place and the officer involved has been accordingly cleared of any wrong doing. I realise there are people who feel and insist they have a need to know about this, but at the end of the day they do not have any need, let alone any right to know about a lot of internal police and security matters.
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@jon-nyc said in Who killed Ashli Babbitt?:
Less than a year ago the Secret Service shot a man outside the white house complex that they deemed a threat.
They didn't release the shooter's name.
That could be an inconvenient fact for some who feel they have a need to know about the Babbitt shooting.
I am certain that an internal investigation has already taken place and the officer involved has been accordingly cleared of any wrong doing. I realise there are people who feel and insist they have a need to know about this, but at the end of the day they do not have any need, let alone any right to know about a lot of internal police and security matters.
wrote on 25 Feb 2021, 18:05 last edited by@renauda said in Who killed Ashli Babbitt?:
@jon-nyc said in Who killed Ashli Babbitt?:
Less than a year ago the Secret Service shot a man outside the white house complex that they deemed a threat.
They didn't release the shooter's name.
That could be an inconvenient fact for some who feel they have a need to know about the Babbitt shooting.
I am certain that an internal investigation has already taken place and the officer involved has been accordingly cleared of any wrong doing. I realise there are people who feel and insist they have a need to know about this, but at the end of the day they do not have any need, let alone any right to know about a lot of internal police and security matters.
So with other police shootings the media demands immediate release of not just names but body cams, 911 calls and all evidence and any delay is excoriated. You disagreed with all that I assume?
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wrote on 25 Feb 2021, 18:08 last edited by
There seem to be different standards for LEO vs the Secret Service and Capitol Police. None of you took note of that fact last year when each were involved in a shooting.
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wrote on 25 Feb 2021, 18:09 last edited by
I assume that, since we don’t know his name, his medal ceremony will have to be private.
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There seem to be different standards for LEO vs the Secret Service and Capitol Police. None of you took note of that fact last year when each were involved in a shooting.
wrote on 25 Feb 2021, 18:37 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Who killed Ashli Babbitt?:
There seem to be different standards for LEO vs the Secret Service and Capitol Police. None of you took note of that fact last year when each were involved in a shooting.
The media too? That’s news to me. I’m trying to figure out how that works with social media as well.
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@renauda said in Who killed Ashli Babbitt?:
@jon-nyc said in Who killed Ashli Babbitt?:
Less than a year ago the Secret Service shot a man outside the white house complex that they deemed a threat.
They didn't release the shooter's name.
That could be an inconvenient fact for some who feel they have a need to know about the Babbitt shooting.
I am certain that an internal investigation has already taken place and the officer involved has been accordingly cleared of any wrong doing. I realise there are people who feel and insist they have a need to know about this, but at the end of the day they do not have any need, let alone any right to know about a lot of internal police and security matters.
So with other police shootings the media demands immediate release of not just names but body cams, 911 calls and all evidence and any delay is excoriated. You disagreed with all that I assume?
wrote on 25 Feb 2021, 18:59 last edited by Renauda@loki said in Who killed Ashli Babbitt?:
@renauda said in Who killed Ashli Babbitt?:
@jon-nyc said in Who killed Ashli Babbitt?:
Less than a year ago the Secret Service shot a man outside the white house complex that they deemed a threat.
They didn't release the shooter's name.
That could be an inconvenient fact for some who feel they have a need to know about the Babbitt shooting.
I am certain that an internal investigation has already taken place and the officer involved has been accordingly cleared of any wrong doing. I realise there are people who feel and insist they have a need to know about this, but at the end of the day they do not have any need, let alone any right to know about a lot of internal police and security matters.
So with other police shootings the media demands immediate release of not just names but body cams, 911 calls and all evidence and any delay is excoriated. You disagreed with all that I assume?
Yes as a matter of fact I did and continue to disagee.
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Miriam Carey... Still don't know who shot her, either.
wrote on 25 Feb 2021, 19:06 last edited by@lufins-dad said in Who killed Ashli Babbitt?:
Miriam Carey
Case in point and that happened in 2013.