Who killed Ashli Babbitt?
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@renauda said in Who killed Ashli Babbitt?:
For what purpose was she in the Capitol Bldg. that day in the midst of a riot? What was she doing when she was shot?
Don't get me wrong. I am not by any stretch defending her activities. However, there are issues that bear on the question I'm asking: a) she was unarmed, b) we don't know who the shooter was, unlike every other cop/LEO who shoots a perp and c) she was nowhere near him when she was shot.
Was the shooter in fear for his life? Totally possible. But, she posed no direct threat to him. She was shot as she broke through a window. It also looks like she was not, specifically, targeted, but the cop shot into the crowd.
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She was trying to breach the area where the members were holed up.
Here’s the testimony of a GOP congressman who witnessed the shooting and had spoken to the lieutenant who fired the shot.
Start around 1:45.
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George most everything you mentioned seems irrelevant.
You're asking the questions we ask when a cop shots a guy at a traffic stop.
If a mob rushed the whitehouse which numerically greatly overwhelmed those protecting it, would you expect the secret service to open fire? Of course.
Would you even consider asking whether the individuals they ended up shooting were armed? Or if the secret service was worried about their own personal safety?
Of course not. It would all be about whether they perceived a threat to the inhabitants. Or even the site itself.
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I don't dispute any of your hypotheticals. I'm not even sure I dispute the legitimacy of his actions, though "firing into a crowd" is questionable, no?
Your defense of the secrecy of the identity of the shooter is simply because he or his family might be threatened. Every time a LEO is involved in a fatality, all the details are examined and made public. Why not here?
If a mob rushed the whitehouse which numerically greatly overwhelmed those protecting it, would you expect the secret service to open fire? Of course.
But that's not what happened. She was shot as she crawled through a broken window.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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I’d like for there to be consistency in our approach to police use of force. The same criteria should apply to the Ashli shooter as in other cases. We just went through billions and billions of dollars related to violence and media super saturation associated with “defund the police”.
It’s worth highlighting this case for that reason alone. Let’s send it through the same lens.
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@george-k said in Who killed Ashli Babbitt?:
If a mob rushed the whitehouse which numerically greatly overwhelmed those protecting it, would you expect the secret service to open fire? Of course.
But that's not what happened. She was shot as she crawled through a broken window.
It's not precisely what happened but it's pretty close, just a different branch of government. There was a barricaded door, behind which many members of congress were holed up. The mob was trying to breach the entrance and eventually broke the window. Then the woman personally breached it. The lieutenant shot the person breaching the barricade. He didn't 'fire into the crowd'.
Did you watch the video I posted above?
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Just think, if Trump hadn't architected the Great Lie that woman would be happily spreading memes about fake snow today instead of lying in a box underground.
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@jon-nyc said in Who killed Ashli Babbitt?:
It's not precisely what happened but it's pretty close, just a different branch of government. There was a barricaded door, behind which many members of congress were holed up. The mob was trying to breach the entrance and eventually broke the window. Then the woman personally breached it. The lieutenant shot the person breaching the barricade. He didn't 'fire into the crowd'.
Oh - and it was a success. He neutralized the threat. The rest of the mob dispersed after he took out the first one to breach the barricade.
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I'm still amazed that only one person was shot.
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Honestly when a large mob overwhelms the force protecting a branch of government a hail of gunfire is probably indicated.
Would anybody expect otherwise had it been the White House?
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@jon-nyc said in Who killed Ashli Babbitt?:
Just think, if Trump hadn't architected the Great Lie that woman would be happily spreading memes about fake snow today instead of lying in a box underground.
I guess you didn’t listen to or dismissed Sam Harris’s podcast with General McChrystal and Chris Fussell.
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@jon-nyc said in Who killed Ashli Babbitt?:
Honestly when a large mob overwhelms the force protecting a branch of government a hail of indiscriminate gunfire is probably indicated.
Would anybody expect otherwise had it been the White House?
Security was abhorrent. The Mayor begged for no national guard presence. Capitol police was biased based on prior events of this nature. Right wing unrest was building for decades.
The 250+ arrested were 2/3 over 34, only 13% members of right wing groups, 40% were biz owners and or white collar, and only 9% unemployed. I can only imagine the other thousands were probably even more of that nature. Not your typical riot crowd if you were evaluating your invaders in real time.
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Imagine if it was the white house. Would anybody have pondered the demographics and employment status of the crowd rushing the building?
Or would they have done what then needed to do to stop it?
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Less than a year ago the Secret Service shot a man outside the white house complex that they deemed a threat.
They didn't release the shooter's name.
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Miriam Carey... Still don't know who shot her, either.
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@jon-nyc said in Who killed Ashli Babbitt?:
Less than a year ago the Secret Service shot a man outside the white house complex that they deemed a threat.
They didn't release the shooter's name.
That could be an inconvenient fact for some who feel they have a need to know about the Babbitt shooting.
I am certain that an internal investigation has already taken place and the officer involved has been accordingly cleared of any wrong doing. I realise there are people who feel and insist they have a need to know about this, but at the end of the day they do not have any need, let alone any right to know about a lot of internal police and security matters.
“Little by little I am learning the art of being quite content by doing very little slowly” ~ Lionel Hardcastle
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@renauda said in Who killed Ashli Babbitt?:
@jon-nyc said in Who killed Ashli Babbitt?:
Less than a year ago the Secret Service shot a man outside the white house complex that they deemed a threat.
They didn't release the shooter's name.
That could be an inconvenient fact for some who feel they have a need to know about the Babbitt shooting.
I am certain that an internal investigation has already taken place and the officer involved has been accordingly cleared of any wrong doing. I realise there are people who feel and insist they have a need to know about this, but at the end of the day they do not have any need, let alone any right to know about a lot of internal police and security matters.
So with other police shootings the media demands immediate release of not just names but body cams, 911 calls and all evidence and any delay is excoriated. You disagreed with all that I assume?
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There seem to be different standards for LEO vs the Secret Service and Capitol Police. None of you took note of that fact last year when each were involved in a shooting.
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I assume that, since we don’t know his name, his medal ceremony will have to be private.
