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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Puzzle Time - Read, Increment, Write

Puzzle Time - Read, Increment, Write

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  • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

    Here’s a hint.

    :::

    Let M(n,r) be the minimum final number with n scientists doing r rounds of read, increment, write. Observe that M(n+1, r) <= M(n,r) since given a minimal sequence with r rounds and n scientists, you can add another scientist with no impact by having all his activity occur after the read associated with final write but before that final write.

    :::

    KlausK Offline
    KlausK Offline
    Klaus
    wrote on last edited by
    #13

    @jon-nyc said in Puzzle Time - Read, Increment, Write:

    Here’s a hint.

    :::

    Let M(n,r) be the minimum final number with n scientists doing r rounds of read, increment, write. Observe that M(n+1, r) <= M(n,r) since given a minimal sequence with r rounds and n scientists, you can add another scientist with no impact by having all his activity occur after the read associated with final write but before that final write.

    :::

    So you want us to express M(n,r) as a recurrence relation and then solve it?

    I assume it's something like this:

    M(n+1,r) = minimum{ M(n,r) , -- the trick -- }
    M(n,r+1) = minimum { M(n,a) + M(n,b) | a+b=r+1} union { -- the-other-trick -- }

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    • jon-nycJ Online
      jon-nycJ Online
      jon-nyc
      wrote on last edited by
      #14

      Not necessarily. The implication of that hint that I was trying to communicate is that if you find a really low number with, say, 2 scientists, you’d be able to preserve that low number at 100 (or potentially do better).

      "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
      -Cormac McCarthy

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      • jon-nycJ Online
        jon-nycJ Online
        jon-nyc
        wrote on last edited by
        #15

        So if you can convince yourself that a solution you found for a smaller n must be a lower bound for any n, you are done.

        "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
        -Cormac McCarthy

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        • KlausK Offline
          KlausK Offline
          Klaus
          wrote on last edited by Klaus
          #16

          :::

          I made a little progress.

          In the scenario with 2 scientists and 3 rounds, Ax's method would yield a bound of 3*37.

          If we denote by R<n> the event of scientist n entering the room to read and W<n> the event of scientist n entering the room two write, then this sequence of events yields a final number of just 2*27.

          R0,R1,W0,R0,W0,W1,R0,R1,W1,R1,W1,W0

          Here's a sequence that yields just 2*37 for 4 rounds of 2 scientists:

          R0,R1,W0,R0,W0,R0,W0,W1,R0,R1,W1,R1,W1,R1,W1,W0

          Even for five rounds, 2*37 is sufficient.

          R0,R1,W0,R0,W0,R0,W0,R0,W0,W1,R0,R1,W1,R1,W1,R1,W1,R1,W1,W0

          And finally, one for six rounds with 2*37.

          R0,R1,W0,R0,W0,R0,W0,R0,W0,R0,W0,W1,R0,R1,W1,R1,W1,R1,W1,R1,W1,R1,W1,W0

          Based on this pattern, I assume that 2*37 is also sufficient for 100 rounds of 2 scientists and, since more scientists can be added without increasing the number, also in the original case with 100 rounds and 100 scientists.

          :::

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          • KlausK Offline
            KlausK Offline
            Klaus
            wrote on last edited by Klaus
            #17

            I think I got it.

            :::

            With my nomenclature from above, here's how to get by with 2*37 for 100 rounds with 2 scientists:

            R0
            99 times R1,W1
            W0
            R1
            99 times R0,W0
            W1

            For the remaining 98 scientists, insert them somewhere before a "W"rite in that sequence.

            :::

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            • KlausK Offline
              KlausK Offline
              Klaus
              wrote on last edited by
              #18

              Here's a counter puzzle for @jon-nyc :

              How many different scenarios/orders are there for n scientists and r rounds?

              I have worked out the solution for n=2. It's interesting.

              jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
              • KlausK Klaus

                Here's a counter puzzle for @jon-nyc :

                How many different scenarios/orders are there for n scientists and r rounds?

                I have worked out the solution for n=2. It's interesting.

                jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nyc
                wrote on last edited by
                #19

                @klaus

                Your answer is what I got.

                As for your question, seems like it’s the problem of how many ways there are to interleave two (or k) ordered lists.

                "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
                -Cormac McCarthy

                KlausK 1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                  @klaus

                  Your answer is what I got.

                  As for your question, seems like it’s the problem of how many ways there are to interleave two (or k) ordered lists.

                  KlausK Offline
                  KlausK Offline
                  Klaus
                  wrote on last edited by Klaus
                  #20

                  @jon-nyc said in Puzzle Time - Read, Increment, Write:

                  As for your question, seems like it’s the problem of how many ways there are to interleave two (or k) ordered lists.

                  Yes. Both lists have length 2r. Once the positions of the first list in the interleaved list are fixed, the positions of the elements of the second list are fixed, too. Hence the number we are looking for is binomial(4r,2r). Which turns out to be (r+1) * C(r), where C(r) is the r-th Catalan number. Which in turn brings us back to my reference to Dyck languages, since the number of distinct Dyck words with exactly n pairs of parentheses is the n-th Catalan number.

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                  • AxtremusA Away
                    AxtremusA Away
                    Axtremus
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #21

                    Cool, that's nice.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ Online
                      jon-nycJ Online
                      jon-nyc
                      wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                      #22

                      Repeating the answer w/o Klaus’s symbols:

                      2 scientists. Both go in and see zero. One does 99 of his 100 full cycles, taking the number high.

                      The 2nd comes in finally does his first write, replacing that high number with 37. 1st guy comes in for his last read and sees 37, leaves. 2nd guy does the remainder of his cycles, taking the number high again.

                      1st guy comes in, erases the high number, and writes 74 as his final write.

                      As we discussed earlier, when you expand to 100 scientists just have them do all their 100 cycles after the final guy’s last read but before his final write.

                      "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
                      -Cormac McCarthy

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