Greenwald: The lies about January 6.
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wrote on 17 Feb 2021, 13:55 last edited by
https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-false-and-exaggerated-claims
Ziptie guy - found them in the building. They belonged to the Capitol Police.
Why does this matter? For the same reason media outlets so excitedly seized on this claim. If Munchel had brought zip-ties with him, that would be suggestive of a premeditated plot to detain people: quite terrorizing, as it suggests malicious and well-planned intent. But he instead just found them on a table by happenstance and, according to his own prosecutors, grabbed them with benign intent.
Armed insurrection?
At least from what is known publicly, there is no evidence of a single protester wielding let alone using a firearm inside the Capitol on that day. As indicated, the only person to have been shot was a pro-Trump protester killed by a Capitol police officer, and the only person said to have been killed by the protesters, Officer Sicknick, died under circumstances that are still completely unclear.
That protesters were found before and after the riot with weapons does not mean they intended to use them as part of the protest. For better or worse, the U.S. is a country where firearm possession is common and legal. And what we know for certain is that there is no evidence of anyone brandishing a gun in that building. That fact makes a pretty large dent in the attempt to characterize this as an “armed insurrection” rather than a riot.
Over and over, no evidence has emerged for the most melodramatic media claims — torn out Panic Buttons and plots to kill Vice President Mike Pence or Mitt Romney. What we know for certain, as The Washington Post noted this week, is that “Despite warnings of violent plots around Inauguration Day, only a smattering of right-wing protesters appeared at the nation’s statehouses.” That does not sound like an ongoing insurrection, to put it mildly.
None of this, none, justifies what happened or excuses the asshats and idiots who stormed the Capitol.
But, some accountability in reporting would be in order, unless you have a narrative to push, of course.
Condemning that riot does not allow, let alone require, echoing false claims in order to render the event more menacing and serious than it actually was. There is no circumstance or motive that justifies the dissemination of false claims by journalists. The more consequential the event, the less justified, and more harmful, serial journalistic falsehoods are.
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wrote on 17 Feb 2021, 14:18 last edited by
Ratings and Narrative.
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wrote on 17 Feb 2021, 14:28 last edited by
If anyone wonders why so many people conclude that they should believe the opposite of whatever the media are saying, this past week provides a good explanation.
Cuomo
Sicknick
Lincoln Project -
wrote on 17 Feb 2021, 14:39 last edited by
His firearm claim is outright false. Testimony of officers and court documents show otherwise.
Unless he's being clever with the word 'wielding', like, waving it around or something.
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wrote on 17 Feb 2021, 14:45 last edited by
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wrote on 17 Feb 2021, 14:47 last edited by
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wrote on 17 Feb 2021, 15:02 last edited by
Sounds reasonable. The crowd was largely armed and the police were terrified. Those high fives the cops were giving as they ushered the doofi through the unguarded doors of the Capitol were Stockholm Syndrome.
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wrote on 17 Feb 2021, 15:06 last edited by Loki
An impartial commission like the Warren Report will be important to set the timeline and all the facts straight. No doubt we will find so many asserted facts wrong and not just due to the fog of war but deliberate for rhetorical purposes.
That said, in my head, if I narrow the lens to Trump’s comments about “wait for Jan 6” and the actions he didn’t take when the wheels started coming off the bus on Jan 6 I say the Captain of the ship grounded the vessel.
Is he criminally responsible, I don’t know without more facts. Should he have been censured, yes. Did he ruin and step on his own narrative, absolutely. Did he leave exposed people who supported him earlier as opposed to provide cover for them, you bet.
If at the meta level we expect the President to be Commander in Chief who’s job 1 is to protect and defend the Constition and security of the country, nothing else can trump that. Are many people maliciously overplaying their hand and about to expose themselves through an impartial investigation, I think that is guaranteed.
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wrote on 17 Feb 2021, 15:13 last edited by
Since the crowd was apparently largely armed, one would expect the Capitol invaders to have been largely armed. That would narrow the focus to get to some facts. Was there a single firearm in the Capitol, carried by an invader? If not, I wonder what that implies about the crowd at large.
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wrote on 17 Feb 2021, 16:19 last edited by
@jon-nyc what I want to know is how many armed protesters were found inside the Capitol. Plus, the fact that so many protesters were armed and didn’t fire speaks highly to the fact that this wasn’t an attempt at a violent overthrow of the government.
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An impartial commission like the Warren Report will be important to set the timeline and all the facts straight. No doubt we will find so many asserted facts wrong and not just due to the fog of war but deliberate for rhetorical purposes.
That said, in my head, if I narrow the lens to Trump’s comments about “wait for Jan 6” and the actions he didn’t take when the wheels started coming off the bus on Jan 6 I say the Captain of the ship grounded the vessel.
Is he criminally responsible, I don’t know without more facts. Should he have been censured, yes. Did he ruin and step on his own narrative, absolutely. Did he leave exposed people who supported him earlier as opposed to provide cover for them, you bet.
If at the meta level we expect the President to be Commander in Chief who’s job 1 is to protect and defend the Constition and security of the country, nothing else can trump that. Are many people maliciously overplaying their hand and about to expose themselves through an impartial investigation, I think that is guaranteed.
wrote on 17 Feb 2021, 16:57 last edited by@loki said in Greenwald: The lies about January 6.:
An impartial commission like the Warren Report will be important to set the timeline and all the facts straight. No doubt we will find so many asserted facts wrong and not just due to the fog of war but deliberate for rhetorical purposes.
I'm looking forward to reading about every case of the nyt and post asserting wrong facts.
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@jon-nyc what I want to know is how many armed protesters were found inside the Capitol. Plus, the fact that so many protesters were armed and didn’t fire speaks highly to the fact that this wasn’t an attempt at a violent overthrow of the government.
wrote on 17 Feb 2021, 17:08 last edited by@lufins-dad said in Greenwald: The lies about January 6.:
@jon-nyc what I want to know is how many armed protesters were found inside the Capitol. Plus, the fact that so many protesters were armed and didn’t fire speaks highly to the fact that this wasn’t an attempt at a violent overthrow of the government.
I don't know if any armed protesters were in the Capitol.
Do we have any facts on that?
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wrote on 17 Feb 2021, 18:12 last edited by Renauda
There were some rumours flying about the Internet of reported Knights Templar and Dominican Inquisitors among the rioters. Haven't been able to confirm it although I am told, some crucifixes were found among the debris and litter in the aftermath.
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There were some rumours flying about the Internet of reported Knights Templar and Dominican Inquisitors among the rioters. Haven't been able to confirm it although I am told, some crucifixes were found among the debris and litter in the aftermath.
wrote on 17 Feb 2021, 18:56 last edited by@renauda said in Greenwald: The lies about January 6.:
Dominican Inquisitors among the rioters.
Just because somebody has bad hair and has never known a woman, this does not necessarily mean he is a Dominican Inquisitor.
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wrote on 17 Feb 2021, 19:14 last edited by
If they were arresting so many people with firearms and Molina, then it just makes the actions (or lack of them) taken by Capitol Officials, the Police, and Muriel Bowser all the more shocking and reprehensible.
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@lufins-dad said in Greenwald: The lies about January 6.:
@jon-nyc what I want to know is how many armed protesters were found inside the Capitol. Plus, the fact that so many protesters were armed and didn’t fire speaks highly to the fact that this wasn’t an attempt at a violent overthrow of the government.
I don't know if any armed protesters were in the Capitol.
Do we have any facts on that?
wrote on 17 Feb 2021, 19:18 last edited by Loki@jolly said in Greenwald: The lies about January 6.:
@lufins-dad said in Greenwald: The lies about January 6.:
@jon-nyc what I want to know is how many armed protesters were found inside the Capitol. Plus, the fact that so many protesters were armed and didn’t fire speaks highly to the fact that this wasn’t an attempt at a violent overthrow of the government.
I don't know if any armed protesters were in the Capitol.
Do we have any facts on that?
Yeah, let’s leave out in their car as a variable. So, where are the reports arrested with a weapon on their person inside the barricade?
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@jolly said in Greenwald: The lies about January 6.:
@lufins-dad said in Greenwald: The lies about January 6.:
@jon-nyc what I want to know is how many armed protesters were found inside the Capitol. Plus, the fact that so many protesters were armed and didn’t fire speaks highly to the fact that this wasn’t an attempt at a violent overthrow of the government.
I don't know if any armed protesters were in the Capitol.
Do we have any facts on that?
Yeah, let’s leave out in their car as a variable. So, where are the reports arrested with a weapon on their person inside the barricade?
wrote on 17 Feb 2021, 19:21 last edited by@loki said in Greenwald: The lies about January 6.:
@jolly said in Greenwald: The lies about January 6.:
@lufins-dad said in Greenwald: The lies about January 6.:
@jon-nyc what I want to know is how many armed protesters were found inside the Capitol. Plus, the fact that so many protesters were armed and didn’t fire speaks highly to the fact that this wasn’t an attempt at a violent overthrow of the government.
I don't know if any armed protesters were in the Capitol.
Do we have any facts on that?
Yeah, let’s leave out in their car as a variable. So, where are the reports arrested with a weapon on their person?
Nope, that doesn’t quite cut it either. They need to have been arrested with the weapons in them while in the building.
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@jon-nyc what I want to know is how many armed protesters were found inside the Capitol. Plus, the fact that so many protesters were armed and didn’t fire speaks highly to the fact that this wasn’t an attempt at a violent overthrow of the government.
wrote on 17 Feb 2021, 19:42 last edited by@lufins-dad said in Greenwald: The lies about January 6.:
Plus, the fact that so many protesters were armed and didn’t fire speaks highly to the fact that this wasn’t an attempt at a violent overthrow of the government.
But we're still going to make fun of "mostly peaceful," aren't we? Of course we are.
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@renauda said in Greenwald: The lies about January 6.:
Dominican Inquisitors among the rioters.
Just because somebody has bad hair and has never known a woman, this does not necessarily mean he is a Dominican Inquisitor.
wrote on 17 Feb 2021, 20:33 last edited by Renauda@doctor-phibes said in Greenwald: The lies about January 6.:
@renauda said in Greenwald: The lies about January 6.:
Dominican Inquisitors among the rioters.
Just because somebody has bad hair and has never known a woman, this does not necessarily mean he is a Dominican Inquisitor.
Still, he looked suspicious and gave other people the evil eye.
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@lufins-dad said in Greenwald: The lies about January 6.:
Plus, the fact that so many protesters were armed and didn’t fire speaks highly to the fact that this wasn’t an attempt at a violent overthrow of the government.
But we're still going to make fun of "mostly peaceful," aren't we? Of course we are.
wrote on 17 Feb 2021, 20:53 last edited by Horace@aqua-letifer said in Greenwald: The lies about January 6.:
@lufins-dad said in Greenwald: The lies about January 6.:
Plus, the fact that so many protesters were armed and didn’t fire speaks highly to the fact that this wasn’t an attempt at a violent overthrow of the government.
But we're still going to make fun of "mostly peaceful," aren't we? Of course we are.
I've noticed people rejecting the "coup" and "insurrection" rhetoric, and that rejection getting turned, rhetorically, into a slavish devotion to a conservative tribe.
