Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?
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Honestly the attempts to minimize and resort to whattaboutism are ultimately a type of wagon circling or weak defense.
It’s pretty liberating to just be able to criticize these guys the way they deserve without any “buts” or “it just thats” added on.
Think back to people ‘contextualizing’ 9/11 or comparing it to this or that US led attack from history.
“I fully condemn the attacks on the trade center, but whattabout Iran in 1956...”.
“I don’t support the attacks on NY and the Pentagon, it’s just that...”
@jon-nyc said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
Honestly the attempts to minimize and resort to whattaboutism are ultimately a type of wagon circling or weak defense.
It’s pretty liberating to just be able to criticize these guys the way they deserve without any “buts” or “it just thats” added on.
Think back to people ‘contextualizing’ 9/11 or comparing it to this or that US led attack from history.
“I fully condemn the attacks on the trade center, but whattabout Iran in 1956...”.
“I don’t support the attacks on NY and the Pentagon, it’s just that...”
Oh I agree it was next level. But I also think the level below needs harsh treatment. Toleration is not good. Broken windows and all that.
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The insurrection can't be minimized enough
The idea that these clowns planned to take over anything or had any chance of taking over anything is pure doofusery
Really
I guess some of the arguments are cute in a sadly political way, but I think we can all agree the insurrection never really existed
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Honestly the attempts to minimize and resort to whattaboutism are ultimately a type of wagon circling or weak defense.
It’s pretty liberating to just be able to criticize these guys the way they deserve without any “buts” or “it just thats” added on.
Think back to people ‘contextualizing’ 9/11 or comparing it to this or that US led attack from history.
“I fully condemn the attacks on the trade center, but whattabout Iran in 1956...”.
“I don’t support the attacks on NY and the Pentagon, it’s just that...”
@jon-nyc said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
Honestly the attempts to minimize and resort to whattaboutism are ultimately a type of wagon circling or weak defense.
It’s pretty liberating to just be able to criticize these guys the way they deserve without any “buts” or “it just thats” added on.
So, do you believe the rejection of the "coup" or "insurrection" rhetoric is a weak defense or disingenuous wagon circling?
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While it is sometimes okay to look at past incidents for guidance, there is also a strong reason not to do so, and treat each individual incident as a "stand alone" incident.
Does the action of the people on January 6 be excused because of what happened in another city or in another time?
Absolutely not.
But, it does seem like some try to justify the people on January 6 by saying "well, this happened in city X or Y, or this happened here many years ago and nothing was done about them."
Example
My friend stole a pair of clothes from the store in another state. He was caught and had to apologize but was let go.I stole a pair of clothes and got caught and got to jail.
Does it matter that I talk about my friend in another state to justify my crime? No.
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While it is sometimes okay to look at past incidents for guidance, there is also a strong reason not to do so, and treat each individual incident as a "stand alone" incident.
Does the action of the people on January 6 be excused because of what happened in another city or in another time?
Absolutely not.
But, it does seem like some try to justify the people on January 6 by saying "well, this happened in city X or Y, or this happened here many years ago and nothing was done about them."
Example
My friend stole a pair of clothes from the store in another state. He was caught and had to apologize but was let go.I stole a pair of clothes and got caught and got to jail.
Does it matter that I talk about my friend in another state to justify my crime? No.
@taiwan_girl said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
While it is sometimes okay to look at past incidents for guidance, there is also a strong reason not to do so, and treat each individual incident as a "stand alone" incident.
Does the action of the people on January 6 be excused because of what happened in another city or in another time?
Absolutely not.
But, it does seem like some try to justify the people on January 6 by saying "well, this happened in city X or Y, or this happened here many years ago and nothing was done about them."
Example
My friend stole a pair of clothes from the store in another state. He was caught and had to apologize but was let go.I stole a pair of clothes and got caught and got to jail.
Does it matter that I talk about my friend in another state to justify my crime? No.
The rhetoric is what is disagreed upon. Of course conservatives on this forum are given no credit whatsoever for admitting that the people who violated the Capitol were insane and should be prosecuted. But beyond being given no credit whatsoever for that, they are then accused of essentially defending them, joining them.
It's unfortunate for lots of Trump haters here that they really can't use their words very well.
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@jon-nyc said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
What insurrection?
I agree.
To me, an insurrection implies either a sustained resistance or an armed response to a government's authority. The January 6th riot does not fit my definition.
The media likes to use the word, because they want to craft a narrative, which they have been somewhat successful at doing.
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@jon-nyc said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
What insurrection?
I agree.
To me, an insurrection implies either a sustained resistance or an armed response to a government's authority. The January 6th riot does not fit my definition.
The media likes to use the word, because they want to craft a narrative, which they have been somewhat successful at doing.
@jolly said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
@jon-nyc said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
What insurrection?
I agree.
To me, an insurrection implies either a sustained resistance or an armed response to a government's authority. The January 6th riot does not fit my definition.
The media likes to use the word, because they want to craft a narrative, which they have been somewhat successful at doing.
All of WTF definitely believes it. Here, jon and ax and maybe 89th believe it. It's sad to see how programmable humans are. Pathetic, really.
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I don't think it was an insurrection. I think it was a riot, fueled by anger that was largely created by Donald Trump's unsubstantiated claims that he had the Presidency stolen from him.
What's worse, he then led them up the garden path, and then at the point when he told them he was going to march on the Capitol with them, he went home to watch it on TV.
A general who led them from behind. In his case, from behind the sofa.
I was only joking
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I don't think it was an insurrection. I think it was a riot, fueled by anger that was largely created by Donald Trump's unsubstantiated claims that he had the Presidency stolen from him.
What's worse, he then led them up the garden path, and then at the point when he told them he was going to march on the Capitol with them, he went home to watch it on TV.
A general who led them from behind. In his case, from behind the sofa.
@doctor-phibes said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
I don't think it was an insurrection. I think it was a riot, fueled by anger that was largely created by Donald Trump's unsubstantiated claims that he had the Presidency stolen from him.
What's worse, he then led them up the garden path, and then at the point when he told them he was going to march on the Capitol with them, he went home to watch it on TV.
A general who led them from behind. In his case, from behind the sofa.
He's just a guy incapable of admitting to losing. This is not a particularly rare personality type. Most of us learn to work around such folk.
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I don't think it was an insurrection. I think it was a riot, fueled by anger that was largely created by Donald Trump's unsubstantiated claims that he had the Presidency stolen from him.
What's worse, he then led them up the garden path, and then at the point when he told them he was going to march on the Capitol with them, he went home to watch it on TV.
A general who led them from behind. In his case, from behind the sofa.
@doctor-phibes said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
I don't think it was an insurrection. I think it was a riot, fueled by anger that was largely created by Donald Trump's unsubstantiated claims that he had the Presidency stolen from him.
What's worse, he then led them up the garden path, and then at the point when he told them he was going to march on the Capitol with them, he went home to watch it on TV.
A general who led them from behind. In his case, from behind the sofa.
I think you're partially right. I think Trump truly believes he was cheated out of the election. I'm not sure he was cheated out of the election, but I certainly believe an elevated level of hank-panky occurred. More so than previous elections? I think so, as I agree with Jimmy Carter (write this day down, it may not occur again), who said mail-in balloting is subject to the highest percentage of fraud.
If you watched the rally or if you watched the UNEDITED version of his remarks, Trump made sure to tell the crowd to engage in a peaceful fight for what they believed in. Peaceful conflict occurs everyday in American politics, down to the dog-catcher level. Trump never wanted a riot. He did want extreme political pressure, if he could gin it up.
And no, the behind-the-sofa comment was pure silliness. Few Presidents in the last 100 years have sustained a political fight like Trump has. Maybe no President since Andrew Johnson or Grant has sustained such unrelenting bad press...Not even Nixon or Hoover.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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I have heard many times that the January 6th event was the worst attack on the Capitol since the British burned it down during the War of 1812. That statement has been made on this forum. I am simply disputing that.
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I have heard many times that the January 6th event was the worst attack on the Capitol since the British burned it down during the War of 1812. That statement has been made on this forum. I am simply disputing that.
@lufins-dad said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
I have heard many times that the January 6th event was the worst attack on the Capitol since the British burned it down during the War of 1812. That statement has been made on this forum. I am simply disputing that.
No, you are joining the violators of the Capitol, just ask jon and ax.
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I don't think it was an insurrection. I think it was a riot, fueled by anger that was largely created by Donald Trump's unsubstantiated claims that he had the Presidency stolen from him.
What's worse, he then led them up the garden path, and then at the point when he told them he was going to march on the Capitol with them, he went home to watch it on TV.
A general who led them from behind. In his case, from behind the sofa.
@doctor-phibes said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
What's worse, he then led them up the garden path, and then at the point when he told them he was going to march on the Capitol with them, he went home to watch it on TV.
Yes and there's also how in days leading up to the Senate certification, Trump pressured and publicly chastised Mike Pence to demonstrate his loyalty and do *his personal * directives rather than follow the VP's supposed constitutional duties regarding certifying the vote. The semantics of what did or did not occur 6 January in the Capitol at the hands of the mob are a distraction to this uncomfortable fact for Trump defenders.
Elbows up!
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@doctor-phibes said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
What's worse, he then led them up the garden path, and then at the point when he told them he was going to march on the Capitol with them, he went home to watch it on TV.
Yes and there's also how in days leading up to the Senate certification, Trump pressured and publicly chastised Mike Pence to demonstrate his loyalty and do *his personal * directives rather than follow the VP's supposed constitutional duties regarding certifying the vote. The semantics of what did or did not occur 6 January in the Capitol at the hands of the mob are a distraction to this uncomfortable fact for Trump defenders.
@renauda said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
@doctor-phibes said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
What's worse, he then led them up the garden path, and then at the point when he told them he was going to march on the Capitol with them, he went home to watch it on TV.
Yes and there's also how in days leading up to the Senate certification, Trump pressured and publicly chastised Mike Pence to demonstrate his loyalty and do his bidding rather than follow his supposed constitutional duties regarding certifying the vote. The semantics of what did or did not occur 6 January in the Capitol at the hands of the mob are a distraction to this uncomfortable fact for Trump defenders.
I guess he considered Mike Pence a friend. Mike Pence probably considered his duty to the republic to be more important than his friendship with Donald Trump. I think most of us would feel that way.
Education is extremely important.
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@doctor-phibes said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
What's worse, he then led them up the garden path, and then at the point when he told them he was going to march on the Capitol with them, he went home to watch it on TV.
Yes and there's also how in days leading up to the Senate certification, Trump pressured and publicly chastised Mike Pence to demonstrate his loyalty and do *his personal * directives rather than follow the VP's supposed constitutional duties regarding certifying the vote. The semantics of what did or did not occur 6 January in the Capitol at the hands of the mob are a distraction to this uncomfortable fact for Trump defenders.
@renauda said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
@doctor-phibes said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
What's worse, he then led them up the garden path, and then at the point when he told them he was going to march on the Capitol with them, he went home to watch it on TV.
Yes and there's also how in days leading up to the Senate certification, Trump pressured and publicly chastised Mike Pence to demonstrate his loyalty and do *his personal * directives rather than follow the VP's supposed constitutional duties regarding certifying the vote. The semantics of what did or did not occur 6 January in the Capitol at the hands of the mob are a distraction to this uncomfortable fact for Trump defenders.
Yeah. The guy's an asshole. The people that forced their way in are criminally assholes. The people that got violent with the police are felonious assholes and some may face manslaughter charges. The assholes that planted the pipe bombs outside of the RNC and DNC rightfully face worse. And none of that compares with actually planting a bomb in the Capitol and having it go off.
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@renauda said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
@doctor-phibes said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
What's worse, he then led them up the garden path, and then at the point when he told them he was going to march on the Capitol with them, he went home to watch it on TV.
Yes and there's also how in days leading up to the Senate certification, Trump pressured and publicly chastised Mike Pence to demonstrate his loyalty and do his bidding rather than follow his supposed constitutional duties regarding certifying the vote. The semantics of what did or did not occur 6 January in the Capitol at the hands of the mob are a distraction to this uncomfortable fact for Trump defenders.
I guess he considered Mike Pence a friend. Mike Pence probably considered his duty to the republic to be more important than his friendship with Donald Trump. I think most of us would feel that way.
@horace said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
I guess he considered Mike Pence a friend. Mike Pence probably considered his duty to the republic to be more important than his friendship with Donald Trump.
Surely you are not saying Trump thought Pence was no longer a team player and lacked enthusiams?
Link to video -
@renauda said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
@jolly said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
@renauda said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
@george-k said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
Who shot her?
What was the justification?
Why has the name of the shooter not been released?Who shot her? Someone in law enforcement while in the line of duty. But we knew that already.
What was the justification? She was a part of an unlawful mob that was rampaging through the Capitol Bldg vandalizing property and, apparently, threatening the Vice President and other elected officials. Whether she was armed or not is irrelevant.
Name of the shooter? Can't tell you. But if it was a Secret Service agent who fired the shot, we do not have a need to know, now do we?
I was with you until the anonymous shooter part.
You can't kill an American citizen even in a line of duty legal shooting and remain anonymous.
so do you have need to know? And if so what is it?
Yes, I have a need to know, as does the general public. Just because you are Secret Service (and we really don't know) does not mean you can discharge your weapon without an investigation.
@jolly said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
You can't kill an American citizen even in a line of duty legal shooting and remain anonymous.
We rather famously killed a US citizen in a drone strike in Yemen in 2011.
Did they release the name of the drone pilot?
You were warned.
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@doctor-phibes said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
I don't think it was an insurrection. I think it was a riot, fueled by anger that was largely created by Donald Trump's unsubstantiated claims that he had the Presidency stolen from him.
What's worse, he then led them up the garden path, and then at the point when he told them he was going to march on the Capitol with them, he went home to watch it on TV.
A general who led them from behind. In his case, from behind the sofa.
I think you're partially right. I think Trump truly believes he was cheated out of the election. I'm not sure he was cheated out of the election, but I certainly believe an elevated level of hank-panky occurred. More so than previous elections? I think so, as I agree with Jimmy Carter (write this day down, it may not occur again), who said mail-in balloting is subject to the highest percentage of fraud.
If you watched the rally or if you watched the UNEDITED version of his remarks, Trump made sure to tell the crowd to engage in a peaceful fight for what they believed in. Peaceful conflict occurs everyday in American politics, down to the dog-catcher level. Trump never wanted a riot. He did want extreme political pressure, if he could gin it up.
And no, the behind-the-sofa comment was pure silliness. Few Presidents in the last 100 years have sustained a political fight like Trump has. Maybe no President since Andrew Johnson or Grant has sustained such unrelenting bad press...Not even Nixon or Hoover.
@jolly said in Worst attack on the Capital since 1812?:
And no, the behind-the-sofa comment was pure silliness. Few Presidents in the last 100 years have sustained a political fight like Trump has. Maybe no President since Andrew Johnson or Grant has sustained such unrelenting bad press...Not even Nixon or Hoover.
So why didn't he join the march as he said he would do - you think maybe his bone spurs were playing up?
I was only joking
