Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss
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I keep hearing "dictator," "authoritarian," and the like.
What, specifically, is he referring to?
@George-K You don't think that President Trump thinks in an authoritarian way - that he feels he should have ultimate power to do things and (probably) doesn't understand the limits on his power?
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@George-K You don't think that President Trump thinks in an authoritarian way - that he feels he should have ultimate power to do things and (probably) doesn't understand the limits on his power?
@taiwan_girl said in Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss:
You don't think that President Trump thinks in an authoritarian way - that he feels he should have ultimate power to do things and (probably) doesn't understand the limits on his power?
Of course I think that.
Now, show me what authoritarian, dictatorial policies he has established.
What he thinks and what he did are two different things. I mean it's not like he sic'ed the IRS after his political opponents or anything, is it? It's not like he unleashed the three-letter agencies to cripple rocket building, satellite launching, is it? It's not like he told the FBI to go after Catholics, is it?
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@taiwan_girl said in Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss:
You don't think that President Trump thinks in an authoritarian way - that he feels he should have ultimate power to do things and (probably) doesn't understand the limits on his power?
Of course I think that.
Now, show me what authoritarian, dictatorial policies he has established.
What he thinks and what he did are two different things. I mean it's not like he sic'ed the IRS after his political opponents or anything, is it? It's not like he unleashed the three-letter agencies to cripple rocket building, satellite launching, is it? It's not like he told the FBI to go after Catholics, is it?
@George-K Good points. But I do think that this thinking does "cloud" his decision making.
Do agree with the rest of what Speaker Ryan said about President Trump?
(EDIT to say: It amazes me the sheer number of high ranking people who worked closely with President Trump, and after working with him, feel he is unfit to be President again)
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@George-K Good points. But I do think that this thinking does "cloud" his decision making.
Do agree with the rest of what Speaker Ryan said about President Trump?
(EDIT to say: It amazes me the sheer number of high ranking people who worked closely with President Trump, and after working with him, feel he is unfit to be President again)
@taiwan_girl said in Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss:
Do agree with the rest of what Speaker Ryan said about President Trump?
Yes, I do. But being, in Ryan's words, "an authoritarian narcissist" is not the same thing as governing that way.
As the old saw goes, "Don't pay attention to what politicians say, pay attention to what they do."
And for the record, I think Trump is a horrible odious creature.
When he announced in 2012 (!), I called him a buffoon.
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@taiwan_girl said in Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss:
Do agree with the rest of what Speaker Ryan said about President Trump?
Yes, I do. But being, in Ryan's words, "an authoritarian narcissist" is not the same thing as governing that way.
As the old saw goes, "Don't pay attention to what politicians say, pay attention to what they do."
And for the record, I think Trump is a horrible odious creature.
When he announced in 2012 (!), I called him a buffoon.
@George-K said in Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss:
Yes, I do. But being, in Ryan's words, "an authoritarian narcissist" is not the same thing as governing that way.
I disagree a little bit. The way he governs will for sure be guided by being an "authoritarian narcissist". He may not be able to do everything he wants to do, but that does not mean he will not try.
President Putin stroke his ego. "Oh, President Putin is not such a bad guy. I have met with him personally. He told me he would stop after taking over Ukraine. I believe him. After all, Ukraine was part of Soviet Union for a long time. There are many people who want to be united with Russia"
etc
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@George-K said in Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss:
Yes, I do. But being, in Ryan's words, "an authoritarian narcissist" is not the same thing as governing that way.
I disagree a little bit. The way he governs will for sure be guided by being an "authoritarian narcissist". He may not be able to do everything he wants to do, but that does not mean he will not try.
President Putin stroke his ego. "Oh, President Putin is not such a bad guy. I have met with him personally. He told me he would stop after taking over Ukraine. I believe him. After all, Ukraine was part of Soviet Union for a long time. There are many people who want to be united with Russia"
etc
etc@taiwan_girl said in Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss:
President Putin stroke his ego. "Oh, President Putin is not such a bad guy. I have met with him personally. He told me he would stop after taking over Ukraine. I believe him. After all, Ukraine was part of Soviet Union for a long time. There are many people who want to be united with Russia"
You're drifting from the conversation. I disagree with Trump's assessment of Putin. He's probably not as flexible as he could be since that was his last election...
But I digress.
What ACTS has he done that are authoritarian? Whom has he shot? Whom has he imprisoned? I don't see tanks rolling down State Street. Also, what people (specifically the likes of the clowns on Morning Joe) fear do not reflect, at all, what his term looked like 2016-2020.
This is all designed to make people afraid, and the people fanning the flames have a visceral hatred of Trump. Not because of what he's done, but because of who he is.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@taiwan_girl said in Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss:
President Putin stroke his ego. "Oh, President Putin is not such a bad guy. I have met with him personally. He told me he would stop after taking over Ukraine. I believe him. After all, Ukraine was part of Soviet Union for a long time. There are many people who want to be united with Russia"
You're drifting from the conversation. I disagree with Trump's assessment of Putin. He's probably not as flexible as he could be since that was his last election...
But I digress.
What ACTS has he done that are authoritarian? Whom has he shot? Whom has he imprisoned? I don't see tanks rolling down State Street. Also, what people (specifically the likes of the clowns on Morning Joe) fear do not reflect, at all, what his term looked like 2016-2020.
This is all designed to make people afraid, and the people fanning the flames have a visceral hatred of Trump. Not because of what he's done, but because of who he is.
What ACTS has he done that are authoritarian?
On a macro level, none; although it’s safe to say that the jury is still out on his actions following the last election. It’s a testament to the robust strength of American institutions that he remained fettered and at times, tethered for the four years he held office.
On a micro level, I don’t know where to begin. Perhaps the memoirs of and interviews with his many former staffers are a good start. Then there’s his exhaustive archive of Twitter posts and quotations from his speeches and press conferences. Trump’s performance as a statesman and manager is by no means stellar or remotely ethical.
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“The authoritarian wants us to lose our faith in our ears and our eyes, what we read and what we observe, so that we can be more dependent on him. Reality is what I say it is."
President Trump is an authoritarian. To me, there is not doubt about it. I had called him a nationalist populist before, but maybe authoritarian is maybe better.
Has he been able to implement everything what he wants? At the moment no. But how well (or how many) of the Republican party stood up to him in the last six years? How many are willing to stand up to him in the upcoming six years, especially if he wins the president election?
Are you comfortable that there are sidelines in place to keep President Trump in place if he wins the next president election? If the answer is yes, then you should be comfortable that there are sidelines in place to keep President Biden from doing anything that he should not.
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“The authoritarian wants us to lose our faith in our ears and our eyes, what we read and what we observe, so that we can be more dependent on him. Reality is what I say it is."
President Trump is an authoritarian. To me, there is not doubt about it. I had called him a nationalist populist before, but maybe authoritarian is maybe better.
Has he been able to implement everything what he wants? At the moment no. But how well (or how many) of the Republican party stood up to him in the last six years? How many are willing to stand up to him in the upcoming six years, especially if he wins the president election?
Are you comfortable that there are sidelines in place to keep President Trump in place if he wins the next president election? If the answer is yes, then you should be comfortable that there are sidelines in place to keep President Biden from doing anything that he should not.
@taiwan_girl said in Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss:
Are you comfortable that there are sidelines in place to keep President Trump in place if he wins the next president election? If the answer is yes, then you should be comfortable that there are sidelines in place to keep President Biden from doing anything that he should not.
Your assumption is that these "sidelines" are fair and unbiased.
If I had to guess, and it's just a guess, there are many more GOP members who would be happy to kneecap Trump than Dems who would kneecap Biden.
Right (former) Reps Cheney, Ryan and Kissinger?
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@taiwan_girl said in Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss:
Are you comfortable that there are sidelines in place to keep President Trump in place if he wins the next president election? If the answer is yes, then you should be comfortable that there are sidelines in place to keep President Biden from doing anything that he should not.
Your assumption is that these "sidelines" are fair and unbiased.
If I had to guess, and it's just a guess, there are many more GOP members who would be happy to kneecap Trump than Dems who would kneecap Biden.
Right (former) Reps Cheney, Ryan and Kissinger?
@George-K said in Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss:
Right (former) Reps Cheney, Ryan and Kissinger?
Exactly. What happened when they tried to stand up to President Trump?
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@George-K said in Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss:
Right (former) Reps Cheney, Ryan and Kissinger?
Exactly. What happened when they tried to stand up to President Trump?
@taiwan_girl said in Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss:
@George-K said in Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss:
Right (former) Reps Cheney, Ryan and Kissinger?
Exactly. What happened when they tried to stand up to President Trump?
They all resigned or lost their elections (though not Ryan, probably).
But, returning to the question I've been asking, what authoritarian polices, procedures, etc did Trump enact during his term? You still haven't answered my question. Rather you're saying "What if???"
Again, he's a horrible odious person full of bluster, hyperbole.
But, what did he actually DO (not say) that was authoritarian? Did he target abortion protestors? Did he try to kneecap Starlink, SpaceX?
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I would refer back to @Renauda post. Kind of "cop out" but he speaks better than I.
(But I do think he is an authoritarian, and the fact that he has not implemented (many) policies yet that show this is probably not because he hasn't tried)
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During the earlier closed-door GOP meeting, McConnell told colleagues that Trump does not want a deal on immigration restrictions so he can use the issue in the presidential campaign — remarks that left some Senate Republicans paralyzed Thursday over where to go next.
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Why haven’t Republicans unified to stop Trump? Because they can’t.
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Republicans are stuck with Trump because their party has been unable to overcome its collective action problem.
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For nine years now, they’ve known that they’d all be better off with Trump gone but also that anyone who tried to make that happen would risk the anger of his voters. So individual politicians keep retreating to the same playbook: stay quiet on the sidelines in hopes that fate will intervene or that someone else will muster the courage to take him out. This is both morally derelict and ineffective.
...In the same op-ed she also talks about why the Democrats are stuck with Biden:
... They are stuck with President Biden because he’s stuck with the charmless and inept vice president he chose four years ago for reasons of coalitional politics. For the same reasons, she cannot be replaced with someone who could easily beat Donald Trump.
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I disagree with the second paragraph. The Democrats need to replace VP Harris, but who it would be, I dont know.
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https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/12/trump-running-mate-vice-president-republicans-racism
“I just love you!” Tim Scott bleated at Donald Trump.
That, and many other examples of elected Republicans who formerly criticized or ran against Trump now changing their tunes professing support and loyalty to Trump.
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https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/12/trump-running-mate-vice-president-republicans-racism
“I just love you!” Tim Scott bleated at Donald Trump.
That, and many other examples of elected Republicans who formerly criticized or ran against Trump now changing their tunes professing support and loyalty to Trump.
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@George-K Do we believe them then or do we believe them now? Or neither? LOL
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@George-K Do we believe them then or do we believe them now? Or neither? LOL
@taiwan_girl said in Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss:
@George-K Do we believe them then or do we believe them now? Or neither? LOL
Never, ever believe what a politician says.
Note what s/he does.
