Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss
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@Jolly said in Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss:
was going to get his ass handed to him...
Why? What is his politics that would cause that?
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Billionaire Republican donor Peter Thiel expressed disappointment with former President Donald Trump’s time in office, remarking that the administration failed to meet even his “low expectations.”
During an interview with The Atlantic’s Barton Gellman, Thiel said “voting for Trump was like a not very articulate scream for help,” which he hoped would change the country for the better, but which ultimately left him disappointed and “disenchanted.”
“There are a lot of things I got wrong,” Thiel told Gellman. “It was crazier than I thought. It was more dangerous than I thought. They couldn’t get the most basic pieces of the government to work. So that was—I think that part was maybe worse than even my low expectations.”
****Thiel — who financially backed Trump in 2016 — revealed that Trump had recently called him to say “he was very sad” and “had expected way more” after Thiel refused to give the former president any money this election cycle.
“Months later, word got back to Thiel that Trump had called [Blake] Masters to discourage him from running for Senate again, and had called Thiel a ‘fucking scumbag,'”**** Gellman reported, adding that Thiel no longer wanted to make any donations to Republican candidates in the near future.
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GOP senators feel ambushed by Trump’s policy promises
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/4332096-gop-senators-feel-ambushed-by-trumps-policy-promises/
... Trump is creating new political headaches for Republicans locked in a highly competitive battle to win back the Senate majority by making extreme statements on health care, immigration and other issues unlikely to play well with swing voters in key states.
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Trump shook up Republicans on Capitol Hill over the weekend by declaring that if elected president he would make another run at repealing and replacing the Affordable Care Act.
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The comments posted on Trump’s media platform, Truth Social, caught GOP lawmakers off guard because they haven’t had any serious policy discussions recently about getting rid of the landmark health care law, and there’s no consensus within their party on how to replace it.
...Maybe they'll run on "repeal and replace" again?
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Former Speaker Ryan speaks.
Former Republican House Speaker Paul Ryan accused former President Donald Trump of being an "authoritarian narcissist," making him the latest party member to equate the former president to a dictator.
"Trump’s not a conservative,” Ryan said at a virtual event hosted by consulting firm Teneo on Wednesday. “He’s a populist, authoritarian narcissist. So, historically speaking, all of his tendencies are basically where narcissism takes him, which is whatever makes him popular, make him feel good at any given moment.”
“He thinks in an authoritarian way, and he’s been able to get a big chunk of the Republican base to follow him because he’s the culture warrior,” Ryan continued.
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@George-K You don't think that President Trump thinks in an authoritarian way - that he feels he should have ultimate power to do things and (probably) doesn't understand the limits on his power?
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@taiwan_girl said in Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss:
You don't think that President Trump thinks in an authoritarian way - that he feels he should have ultimate power to do things and (probably) doesn't understand the limits on his power?
Of course I think that.
Now, show me what authoritarian, dictatorial policies he has established.
What he thinks and what he did are two different things. I mean it's not like he sic'ed the IRS after his political opponents or anything, is it? It's not like he unleashed the three-letter agencies to cripple rocket building, satellite launching, is it? It's not like he told the FBI to go after Catholics, is it?
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@George-K Good points. But I do think that this thinking does "cloud" his decision making.
Do agree with the rest of what Speaker Ryan said about President Trump?
(EDIT to say: It amazes me the sheer number of high ranking people who worked closely with President Trump, and after working with him, feel he is unfit to be President again)
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@taiwan_girl said in Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss:
Do agree with the rest of what Speaker Ryan said about President Trump?
Yes, I do. But being, in Ryan's words, "an authoritarian narcissist" is not the same thing as governing that way.
As the old saw goes, "Don't pay attention to what politicians say, pay attention to what they do."
And for the record, I think Trump is a horrible odious creature.
When he announced in 2012 (!), I called him a buffoon.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@George-K said in Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss:
Yes, I do. But being, in Ryan's words, "an authoritarian narcissist" is not the same thing as governing that way.
I disagree a little bit. The way he governs will for sure be guided by being an "authoritarian narcissist". He may not be able to do everything he wants to do, but that does not mean he will not try.
President Putin stroke his ego. "Oh, President Putin is not such a bad guy. I have met with him personally. He told me he would stop after taking over Ukraine. I believe him. After all, Ukraine was part of Soviet Union for a long time. There are many people who want to be united with Russia"
etc
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@taiwan_girl said in Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss:
President Putin stroke his ego. "Oh, President Putin is not such a bad guy. I have met with him personally. He told me he would stop after taking over Ukraine. I believe him. After all, Ukraine was part of Soviet Union for a long time. There are many people who want to be united with Russia"
You're drifting from the conversation. I disagree with Trump's assessment of Putin. He's probably not as flexible as he could be since that was his last election...
But I digress.
What ACTS has he done that are authoritarian? Whom has he shot? Whom has he imprisoned? I don't see tanks rolling down State Street. Also, what people (specifically the likes of the clowns on Morning Joe) fear do not reflect, at all, what his term looked like 2016-2020.
This is all designed to make people afraid, and the people fanning the flames have a visceral hatred of Trump. Not because of what he's done, but because of who he is.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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What ACTS has he done that are authoritarian?
On a macro level, none; although it’s safe to say that the jury is still out on his actions following the last election. It’s a testament to the robust strength of American institutions that he remained fettered and at times, tethered for the four years he held office.
On a micro level, I don’t know where to begin. Perhaps the memoirs of and interviews with his many former staffers are a good start. Then there’s his exhaustive archive of Twitter posts and quotations from his speeches and press conferences. Trump’s performance as a statesman and manager is by no means stellar or remotely ethical.
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“The authoritarian wants us to lose our faith in our ears and our eyes, what we read and what we observe, so that we can be more dependent on him. Reality is what I say it is."
President Trump is an authoritarian. To me, there is not doubt about it. I had called him a nationalist populist before, but maybe authoritarian is maybe better.
Has he been able to implement everything what he wants? At the moment no. But how well (or how many) of the Republican party stood up to him in the last six years? How many are willing to stand up to him in the upcoming six years, especially if he wins the president election?
Are you comfortable that there are sidelines in place to keep President Trump in place if he wins the next president election? If the answer is yes, then you should be comfortable that there are sidelines in place to keep President Biden from doing anything that he should not.
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@taiwan_girl said in Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss:
Are you comfortable that there are sidelines in place to keep President Trump in place if he wins the next president election? If the answer is yes, then you should be comfortable that there are sidelines in place to keep President Biden from doing anything that he should not.
Your assumption is that these "sidelines" are fair and unbiased.
If I had to guess, and it's just a guess, there are many more GOP members who would be happy to kneecap Trump than Dems who would kneecap Biden.
Right (former) Reps Cheney, Ryan and Kissinger?
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@George-K said in Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss:
Right (former) Reps Cheney, Ryan and Kissinger?
Exactly. What happened when they tried to stand up to President Trump?
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@taiwan_girl said in Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss:
@George-K said in Whither the GOP post Trump 2020 election loss:
Right (former) Reps Cheney, Ryan and Kissinger?
Exactly. What happened when they tried to stand up to President Trump?
They all resigned or lost their elections (though not Ryan, probably).
But, returning to the question I've been asking, what authoritarian polices, procedures, etc did Trump enact during his term? You still haven't answered my question. Rather you're saying "What if???"
Again, he's a horrible odious person full of bluster, hyperbole.
But, what did he actually DO (not say) that was authoritarian? Did he target abortion protestors? Did he try to kneecap Starlink, SpaceX?
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I would refer back to @Renauda post. Kind of "cop out" but he speaks better than I.
(But I do think he is an authoritarian, and the fact that he has not implemented (many) policies yet that show this is probably not because he hasn't tried)
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During the earlier closed-door GOP meeting, McConnell told colleagues that Trump does not want a deal on immigration restrictions so he can use the issue in the presidential campaign — remarks that left some Senate Republicans paralyzed Thursday over where to go next.
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Why haven’t Republicans unified to stop Trump? Because they can’t.
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Republicans are stuck with Trump because their party has been unable to overcome its collective action problem.
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For nine years now, they’ve known that they’d all be better off with Trump gone but also that anyone who tried to make that happen would risk the anger of his voters. So individual politicians keep retreating to the same playbook: stay quiet on the sidelines in hopes that fate will intervene or that someone else will muster the courage to take him out. This is both morally derelict and ineffective.
...In the same op-ed she also talks about why the Democrats are stuck with Biden:
... They are stuck with President Biden because he’s stuck with the charmless and inept vice president he chose four years ago for reasons of coalitional politics. For the same reasons, she cannot be replaced with someone who could easily beat Donald Trump.
