How Europe does it

[George K]

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3756988

Concerns over fraud with absentee ballots is not something limited to Republicans in the United States. Indeed, many European countries have voting rules stricter to prevent fraud than what we have in the United States.1 For example, 74% entirely ban absentee voting for citizens who live in their country. Another 6% allow it, but have very restrictive rules, such as limiting it to those in the military or are in a hospital, and they require evidence that those conditions are met. Another 15% allow absentee ballots but require that one has to present a photo voter ID to acquire it. Thirty-five percent of European countries completely ban absentee ballots for even those living outside their country. The pattern is similar for developed countries.

Many of these countries have learned the hard way about what happens when mail-in ballots aren’t secured. They have also discovered how hard it is to detect vote buying when both those buying and selling the votes have an incentive to hide the exchange.

France banned mail-in voting in 1975 because of massive fraud in Corsica, where postal ballots were stolen or bought and voters cast multiple votes. Mail-in ballots were used to cast the votes of dead people.2

The United Kingdom, which allows postal voting, has had some notable mail-in ballot fraud cases. Prior to recent photo ID requirements, six Labour Party councilors in Birmingham won office after what the judge described as a “massive, systematic and organised" postal voting fraud campaign.3 The fraud was apparently carried out with the full knowledge and cooperation of the local Labour party. There was "widespread theft" of postal votes (possibly around 40,000 ballots) in areas with large Muslim populations because Labour members were worried that the Iraq war would spur these voters to oppose the incumbent government.
In 1991, Mexico’s 1991 election mandated voter photo-IDs and banned absentee ballots. The then-governing Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI) had long used fraud and intimidation with mail-in ballots to win elections.4 Only in 2006 were absentee ballots again allowed, and then only for those living abroad who requested them at least six months in advance.5

Some European countries allow proxy voting, but that is very strictly regulated to minimize fraud. For example, proxy voting requires the verification of photo IDs and signed request forms. In Poland, a power of attorney is necessary to have a proxy vote and then can only be granted by the municipal mayor. In France, you must go in person to the municipality office prior to the elections, provide proof of who you are, provide proof of reason for absence (for example, letter from your employer or medical certificate), and then nominate a proxy. Proxy voting is not only very limited, but it prevents the problem that absentee ballots are unsecured. Proxy voting requires that the proxy vote in-person in a voting booth.

Unsecured absentee ballots create the potential that either fraudulent ballots will be introduced or votes to be destroyed. Some safe guards can at least minimize these problems, such as requiring matching signatures, but even this is not the same as requiring government issued photo voter IDs. Nor does it prevent votes from being destroyed. In addition, one of the controversies in this election was that states such as Georgia, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin did not match signatures on the outer envelopes match the voters’ registration records.6 Other states, particularly Pennsylvania, were accused of accepting absentee ballots that didn’t even have the outer envelope where the voter’s signature would be or were missing postmarks.7

[Jolly]

Maybe some good will come out of the Democrat mischief.

[xenon]

Are any Republicans putting forth some sort of Federal ID system to supersede SSN?

Seems like a practical way to generate a verifiable ID system that isn't up to the discretion of each state.

State's right would have been a traditional argument against this. I think we're long past caring about that.

[jon-nyc]

As I’ve said before I’m all for tight restrictions on absentee ballots, after the pandemic.

I’m fine with voter id laws, but I want that to be in conjunction with early voting and provisional balloting for those who show up with no ID.

[Jolly]

@xenon said in How Europe does it:

Are any Republicans putting forth some sort of Federal ID system to supersede SSN?

Seems like a practical way to generate a verifiable ID system that isn't up to the discretion of each state.

State's right would have been a traditional argument against this. I think we're long past caring about that.

Nope, but the Dems have filed HB.1, where you can vote with absolutely no ID.

Anywhere in the country.

[taiwan_girl]

@xenon said in How Europe does it:

Are any Republicans putting forth some sort of Federal ID system to supersede SSN?

Is the REAL ID kind of a partial substitute?

[Copper]

@xenon said in How Europe does it:

Are any Republicans putting forth some sort of Federal ID system to supersede SSN?

Why?

Keep in mind there is no such thing as a federal election. Elections are handled at the state and local level.

Social Security is a completely different thing used for some, not all, employment situations.

A passport is a federal ID.

State's right would have been a traditional argument against this. I think we're long past caring about that.

There are many millions who believe, correctly, State's rights are more important now than ever.

[Klaus]

American conservatives are famous for never giving the slightest fuck about how other countries do things, hence it seems to be somewhat opportunistic to do that here when it looks convenient.

Also, I find the text misleading.

Mail-in voting is common or even the most common form of voting in several European countries. In Switzerland, 90% of votes are submitted by mail. Germany recently had an election where all votes were by mail (due to the pandemic); outside of the pandemic, 25+% of all votes are typically cast by mail.

I don't know about all European countries, but besides Germany I know that UK, Spain, Austria, Switzerland, and Denmark have mail-in voting for everyone (not just selected groups), hence it's not at all unusual.