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The New Coffee Room

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  2. General Discussion
  3. What does it take to piss off a Canadian?

What does it take to piss off a Canadian?

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  • George KG Offline
    George KG Offline
    George K
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    This: https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/01/bidens-foolish-sabotage-of-the-keystone-pipeline/

    Joe Biden has not yet been sworn in, but already, he is at war with American energy — which is to say, at war with American prosperity. Biden has promised to sabotage the Keystone XL pipeline, a privately financed, multi-billion-dollar project already under way, and “cancel it on his first day,” according to a briefing document cited by the BBC.

    The Keystone pipeline would, if it were allowed to, carry crude from the oil sands of Alberta to Nebraska, where the pipeline would link up with the existing distribution network to send that oil on to refineries in the Gulf of Mexico. This would benefit Canadian producers and their investors, American refineries and their large, excellently paid work forces — those good, high-paying, blue-collar jobs Biden talks about — and, most important, American consumers, who would have access to yet another source of fuel at attractive prices from a nearby friendly country. This sort of thing is the point of international economic cooperation.

    The notional case against Keystone is environmental in the main part, and in the lesser part an issue of Indian lands and rights. The environmental case is unsound: Canada has ratified the Paris agreement and takes environmental issues relatively seriously. Innovation and technological improvements have substantially reduced the greenhouse-gas emissions associated with Canadian tar-sands productions — by 30 percent since the 1990s, as the Canadian government calculates. Of course, it matters relatively little whether a gallon of gasoline in the tank of a Cadillac Escalade in Houston is refined from Canadian tar-sands oil or from West Texas oil — the relevant emissions come overwhelmingly from the point of combustion.
    ...

    There is a worrying Hayekian lesson in this, too: It is impossible for American businesses to make big, long-term investments in a political environment in which every project is up for renegotiation — or summary economic execution — every time the White House changes hands. Why invest in building and moving physical goods, and taking on the political risk that goes along with such investments, when you could join the booming financial sector and put your money into the money business? This is not to sniff at finance or other work in the service economy, but, surely, in a continental nation as vast as ours, with an economy as complex as ours, it shouldn’t be possible for one man serving a short term in a temporary elected office to undo years of work and billions of dollars in investment. This is pure foolishness, and it will cost us.

    Joe Biden is getting ready to get off to a poor start. And if he thinks that he can buy off the green lobby by sacrificing Keystone, he is mistaken. Their ambitions are bigger and broader than that, and they will not be easily satisfied: L’appétit vient en mangeant.

    If you were wondering who actually has Joe Biden’s ear, now you know.

    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • jon-nycJ Online
      jon-nycJ Online
      jon-nyc
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      I saw that too but would love to see details on the exec order. Hopefully it could be successfully challenged in court.

      Only non-witches get due process.

      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
      1 Reply Last reply
      • RenaudaR Offline
        RenaudaR Offline
        Renauda
        wrote on last edited by Renauda
        #3

        First off, the majority of Canadians don't really care. It does not affect them in the least. Keystone XL (KXL) is only of interest to Alberta and to a lesser extent Saskatchewan along with a few multinational oil producers and their affiliates with heavy oil refining capacity in the US.

        All the same as an Albertan, it doesn't bother me a bit, in fact I welcome it. A lot has changed in the few years and KXL is no longer necessary or frankly, even beneficial to Alberta in the long run.

        Upgraded bitumen and heavy oil (Western Canada Select or WCS) from Alberta is discounted 15% or more when it crosses the US border because the US is currently its only export market. As it is bitumen and heavy oil producers here only pay a 1.5% royalty to the Alberta government at the wellhead. It is upgraded at source then shipped by existing pipeline or transported by rail to market. Once the product crosses the border the discounted oil is an again refined or blended and sold as either retail fuel or exported as a value added product. It's a winning formula for multi national producers with refining capacity - pay a 1.5% royalty on production to the Alberta Government, upgrade the raw product and have local consumers subsidize the costs of upgrading at the pumps when they fill their vehicles, then ship upgraded oil either to your parent company's refinery in the US or to an affiliated partner at the 30% discounted price of WCS.

        What Alberta needs to do is focus on completing phase 2 of the Trans Mountain pipeline that is currently under construction so that our product goes to tidewater in Canada then exported to global markets, not just to the US at the discounted price of WCS. Besides, there is currently sufficient pipeline capacity in existing pipelines running into the US from Alberta to meet current and projected demands.

        So, no I'm not at all upset. Like I already stated I applaud Biden in cancelling the permit. Against advice the current Alberta G’ovt has dumped billions of Alberta taxpayers money into this white elephant both directly and indirectly the past two years. Anything Biden can do to damage the waning credibility of the present Alberta Government is a good thing.

        Elbows up!

        George KG 1 Reply Last reply
        • RenaudaR Renauda

          First off, the majority of Canadians don't really care. It does not affect them in the least. Keystone XL (KXL) is only of interest to Alberta and to a lesser extent Saskatchewan along with a few multinational oil producers and their affiliates with heavy oil refining capacity in the US.

          All the same as an Albertan, it doesn't bother me a bit, in fact I welcome it. A lot has changed in the few years and KXL is no longer necessary or frankly, even beneficial to Alberta in the long run.

          Upgraded bitumen and heavy oil (Western Canada Select or WCS) from Alberta is discounted 15% or more when it crosses the US border because the US is currently its only export market. As it is bitumen and heavy oil producers here only pay a 1.5% royalty to the Alberta government at the wellhead. It is upgraded at source then shipped by existing pipeline or transported by rail to market. Once the product crosses the border the discounted oil is an again refined or blended and sold as either retail fuel or exported as a value added product. It's a winning formula for multi national producers with refining capacity - pay a 1.5% royalty on production to the Alberta Government, upgrade the raw product and have local consumers subsidize the costs of upgrading at the pumps when they fill their vehicles, then ship upgraded oil either to your parent company's refinery in the US or to an affiliated partner at the 30% discounted price of WCS.

          What Alberta needs to do is focus on completing phase 2 of the Trans Mountain pipeline that is currently under construction so that our product goes to tidewater in Canada then exported to global markets, not just to the US at the discounted price of WCS. Besides, there is currently sufficient pipeline capacity in existing pipelines running into the US from Alberta to meet current and projected demands.

          So, no I'm not at all upset. Like I already stated I applaud Biden in cancelling the permit. Against advice the current Alberta G’ovt has dumped billions of Alberta taxpayers money into this white elephant both directly and indirectly the past two years. Anything Biden can do to damage the waning credibility of the present Alberta Government is a good thing.

          George KG Offline
          George KG Offline
          George K
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          @renauda intersting perspectives.

          Thanks.

          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • AxtremusA Away
            AxtremusA Away
            Axtremus
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            @Renauda thanks for the insights you shared.
            I was not previously aware that the Keystone XL pipeline now represents such a poor deal for Albertans.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • RenaudaR Offline
              RenaudaR Offline
              Renauda
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Good summary here with a link explaining the WCS discount I referred to earlier:

              https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/trans-mountain-keystone-pipeline-trudeau-kenney-1.5877983

              Elbows up!

              1 Reply Last reply
              • RenaudaR Offline
                RenaudaR Offline
                Renauda
                wrote on last edited by Renauda
                #7

                Why the US does not need Keystone:

                https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/keystone-xl-u-s-oil-supplies-pipeline-alberta-biden-1.5882313

                Too bad our useless Premier, Jason Kenney, doesn't get it.

                Elbows up!

                George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                • RainmanR Offline
                  RainmanR Offline
                  Rainman
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Thanks for directing me to this thread, Renauda. I did not click on this thread when posted, because there was nothing about Keystone in the title. This particular thread had "Canadian" in the title. Why would I click that?😬

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • RenaudaR Offline
                    RenaudaR Offline
                    Renauda
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    You are quite right...

                    Nothing to see, best to move on.

                    Elbows up!

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • RenaudaR Renauda

                      Why the US does not need Keystone:

                      https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/keystone-xl-u-s-oil-supplies-pipeline-alberta-biden-1.5882313

                      Too bad our useless Premier, Jason Kenney, doesn't get it.

                      George KG Offline
                      George KG Offline
                      George K
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      @renauda said in What does it take to piss off a Canadian?:

                      Too bad our useless Premier, Jason Kenney, doesn't get it.

                      Kenney speaks

                      https://news.grabien.com/story-alberta-canada-premier-cancelation-keystone-xl-pipeline-kill?utm_source=Jeeng

                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • RenaudaR Offline
                        RenaudaR Offline
                        Renauda
                        wrote on last edited by Renauda
                        #11

                        Kenney on Fox News. I'm sure that plays well in the US. The part about his concern for lost "union jobs" is particularly amusing. He has just spent the past 18 months of his term attacking organised labour and rescinding occupational health and safety regulations and legislation. The man is unabashedly disingenuous.

                        Local op-ed from last week on the Jason Kenney show:

                        https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/opinion-kenney-faces-headache-and-humiliation-as-biden-prepares-to-kill-keystone-xl-1.5878472

                        Elbows up!

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • RenaudaR Offline
                          RenaudaR Offline
                          Renauda
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          It appears that my assessment that Keystone is not on most of people's minds is correct. A recent poll suggests that the majority of Canadians just want to move on:

                          https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/keystone-xl-poll-angus-reid-institute-canada-alberta-pipeline-biden-us-1.5887719

                          Elbows up!

                          1 Reply Last reply
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