Inside the Capitol Today
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@horace said in Inside the Capitol Today:
There was just no way we as a society could have squelched the BLM riots with force. Pop culture would not have allowed it and the righteous retribution of the nation-wide mobs against any such use of overwhelming law enforcement would have been even greater. Meanwhile, after the group of unarmed doofuses raided the largely unguarded Capitol, pop culture has become engorged with excitement at the prospect of bringing the law enforcement hammer down on any such future attempts. So that's a huge difference. I totally accept use of force to quell doofuses against Capitol invasions. I do not accept our status quo of righteous rioting, about which we can do nothing, whenever a racist cop incident goes viral.
Agreed, but we humans are really bad at creating the proper balance.
Are there no charges being brought up on anyone from the Seattle mess? If not, then that is wrong, and needs to be fixed.
I'm with Aqua on this though.
Our constitution, our very way of life, was attacked on the 6th.
These people need to go to prison for a long time.
Any more attacks on the foundation or pillars of our nation, should be considered an act of war/sedition and defended with deadly force. If they don't die during the attack, lock them up for life.
Any more violence in the streets of our nation should also be met met with deadly force during the incident. Again, those that do not die, are locked up for as long as they can physically pose a threat to anyone. IOW, until they are very very old, or dead.
Protesting is one thing. Committing acts of violence is another. One is legal, one in not. Pretty simple actually.
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@mark said in Inside the Capitol Today:
Any more attacks on the foundation or pillars of our nation, should be considered an act of war/sedition and defended with deadly force. If they don't die during the attack, lock them up for life.
Yes, enough people, including the MSM and all important idea propagators, are engorged with excitement over that prospect.
Just don't expect that excitement to last, if the doofuses attempting an "attack on the pillars of our democracy" are backed by leftist outrage.
Any more violence in the streets of our nation should also be met met with deadly force during the incident. Again, those that do not die, are locked up for as long as they can physically pose a threat to anyone. IOW, until they are very very old, or dead.
And that won't happen. And you never advocated for it at the time, during the BLM riots. I recall you were dismissive of CHAZ, making fun of those who thought it was some sort of violent takeover. While everybody knew that the police station had been abandoned, for the very reason that violence would have occurred if it hadn't been. We as a society were terrified of using force against the mobs.
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@aqua-letifer said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@george-k said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@aqua-letifer said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@george-k said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@loki I don’t disagree at all. I was referencing The Speaker’s comments about federal troops in Portland.
Stormtroopers for thee but not for me.
Portland is not where a national election was delayed due to terrorism.
No. But is where a federal building was firebombed.
The response to Portland was abysmal but I see no argument that it was in any way on par with an attempt to overturn our elections that resulted in an officer dying, terrorists preparing to assassinate our leaders, and Congressmen having to shelter in place due to pipe bombs being planted. It's not even remotely close to the same scenario.
How about Seattle? That IMO is worse, akin to the attack on The Alamo... Armed combatants took control of property belonging to US Citizens, the city of Seattle, the State of Washington, and The United States of America and declared it as an autonomous city/state outside of the boundaries, laws, and authority of the United States and governing authorities.
Me/rry/Christmas
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@lufins-dad said in Inside the Capitol Today:
How about Seattle? That IMO is worse,
Not for me. The desire to assassinate Pence and other Congressmen, and to undo a national election is definitely worse. There's absolutely no comparison. There's a reason you know who John Hinckley Jr. is.
Regarding Seattle, I don't think we have to get into how awful that was and what the response should've been; we're on the same page there.
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@aqua-letifer said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@lufins-dad said in Inside the Capitol Today:
How about Seattle? That IMO is worse,
Not for me. The desire to assassinate Pence and other Congressmen, and to undo a national election is definitely worse. There's absolutely no comparison. There's a reason you know who John Hinckley Jr. is.
Regarding Seattle, I don't think we have to get into how awful that was and what the response should've been; we're on the same page there.
The desire to assassinate Pence was your breaking point? I mean I've lived among normal people who've said out loud they'd put a bullet into Trump's head if given a chance. I suspect lots of them were at the BLM riots.
I know, I know, none of them invaded the Capitol. My point is that the Capitol was largely unprotected due to the precedent of the BLM riots, especially CHAZ and Portland.
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@aqua-letifer said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@lufins-dad said in Inside the Capitol Today:
How about Seattle? That IMO is worse,
Not for me. The desire to assassinate Pence and other Congressmen, and to undo a national election is definitely worse. There's absolutely no comparison. There's a reason you know who John Hinckley Jr. is.
Regarding Seattle, I don't think we have to get into how awful that was and what the response should've been; we're on the same page there.
To this point, has the Secret Service deemed the threat to Pence as credible?
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@lufins-dad said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@aqua-letifer said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@lufins-dad said in Inside the Capitol Today:
How about Seattle? That IMO is worse,
Not for me. The desire to assassinate Pence and other Congressmen, and to undo a national election is definitely worse. There's absolutely no comparison. There's a reason you know who John Hinckley Jr. is.
Regarding Seattle, I don't think we have to get into how awful that was and what the response should've been; we're on the same page there.
To this point, has the Secret Service deemed the threat to Pence as credible?
Do you think the guys that beat down the police officer with a fire extinguisher would have been kind to Pelosi, Pence or AOC? It didn't happen so you can't know for sure, I guess...
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@horace said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@aqua-letifer said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@lufins-dad said in Inside the Capitol Today:
How about Seattle? That IMO is worse,
Not for me. The desire to assassinate Pence and other Congressmen, and to undo a national election is definitely worse. There's absolutely no comparison. There's a reason you know who John Hinckley Jr. is.
Regarding Seattle, I don't think we have to get into how awful that was and what the response should've been; we're on the same page there.
The desire to assassinate Pence was your breaking point? I mean I've lived among normal people who've said out loud they'd put a bullet into Trump's head if given a chance. I suspect lots of them were at the BLM riots.
I know, I know, none of them invaded the Capitol. My point is that the Capitol was largely unprotected due to the precedent of the BLM riots, especially CHAZ and Portland.
I thought the BLM riots and the reaction to them were crazy.
But to send a crowd to the Capitol to pressure the Vice President into overturning electoral college votes is a different thing.
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@xenon said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@horace said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@aqua-letifer said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@lufins-dad said in Inside the Capitol Today:
How about Seattle? That IMO is worse,
Not for me. The desire to assassinate Pence and other Congressmen, and to undo a national election is definitely worse. There's absolutely no comparison. There's a reason you know who John Hinckley Jr. is.
Regarding Seattle, I don't think we have to get into how awful that was and what the response should've been; we're on the same page there.
The desire to assassinate Pence was your breaking point? I mean I've lived among normal people who've said out loud they'd put a bullet into Trump's head if given a chance. I suspect lots of them were at the BLM riots.
I know, I know, none of them invaded the Capitol. My point is that the Capitol was largely unprotected due to the precedent of the BLM riots, especially CHAZ and Portland.
I thought the BLM riots and the reaction to them were crazy.
But to send a crowd to the Capitol to pressure the Vice President into overturning electoral college votes is a different thing.
I haven't even researched this exercise in stupidity to the point that I think Trump intentionally sent a mob after his vice president to protect his presidency. Are you claiming that motivation for Trump? I mean he's a sore loser, I get that. My feeling all along is that our institutions would hold up. Our culture hasn't, so much, but that was long precedented long before he was elected.
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@horace said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@xenon said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@horace said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@aqua-letifer said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@lufins-dad said in Inside the Capitol Today:
How about Seattle? That IMO is worse,
Not for me. The desire to assassinate Pence and other Congressmen, and to undo a national election is definitely worse. There's absolutely no comparison. There's a reason you know who John Hinckley Jr. is.
Regarding Seattle, I don't think we have to get into how awful that was and what the response should've been; we're on the same page there.
The desire to assassinate Pence was your breaking point? I mean I've lived among normal people who've said out loud they'd put a bullet into Trump's head if given a chance. I suspect lots of them were at the BLM riots.
I know, I know, none of them invaded the Capitol. My point is that the Capitol was largely unprotected due to the precedent of the BLM riots, especially CHAZ and Portland.
I thought the BLM riots and the reaction to them were crazy.
But to send a crowd to the Capitol to pressure the Vice President into overturning electoral college votes is a different thing.
I haven't even researched this exercise in stupidity to the point that I think Trump intentionally sent a mob after his vice president to protect his presidency. Are you claiming that motivation for Trump? I mean he's a sore loser, I get that. My feeling all along is that our institutions would hold up. Our culture hasn't, so much, but that was long precedented long before he was elected.
Agreed
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@horace said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@xenon said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@horace said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@aqua-letifer said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@lufins-dad said in Inside the Capitol Today:
How about Seattle? That IMO is worse,
Not for me. The desire to assassinate Pence and other Congressmen, and to undo a national election is definitely worse. There's absolutely no comparison. There's a reason you know who John Hinckley Jr. is.
Regarding Seattle, I don't think we have to get into how awful that was and what the response should've been; we're on the same page there.
The desire to assassinate Pence was your breaking point? I mean I've lived among normal people who've said out loud they'd put a bullet into Trump's head if given a chance. I suspect lots of them were at the BLM riots.
I know, I know, none of them invaded the Capitol. My point is that the Capitol was largely unprotected due to the precedent of the BLM riots, especially CHAZ and Portland.
I thought the BLM riots and the reaction to them were crazy.
But to send a crowd to the Capitol to pressure the Vice President into overturning electoral college votes is a different thing.
I haven't even researched this exercise in stupidity to the point that I think Trump intentionally sent a mob after his vice president to protect his presidency. Are you claiming that motivation for Trump? I mean he's a sore loser, I get that. My feeling all along is that our institutions would hold up. Our culture hasn't, so much, but that was long precedented long before he was elected.
Jan. 6 is the official certification (or whatever) of the vote. He's been publicly pressuring Pence to overturn it (claiming he has some sort of authority to actually do that).
Pence refuses, issues a press release to that effect on the 6th. Trump reportedly calls him a pussy in private. And blasts him on social media publicly.
Trump marches to the capitol (or said he would), with his crowd during the time of this certification process. This was deemed the "stop the steal" march.
What's the purpose of this crowd? To pressure the VP or congressmen to do something unconstitutional?
You don't even need violence for this to be mind-bogglingly against Trump's oath of office.
Let's just take him at face value. If Pence did what Trump was pressuring him to do (or enough congressmen/senators agreed) - would the country be in a better spot today?
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@xenon said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@horace said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@xenon said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@horace said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@aqua-letifer said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@lufins-dad said in Inside the Capitol Today:
How about Seattle? That IMO is worse,
Not for me. The desire to assassinate Pence and other Congressmen, and to undo a national election is definitely worse. There's absolutely no comparison. There's a reason you know who John Hinckley Jr. is.
Regarding Seattle, I don't think we have to get into how awful that was and what the response should've been; we're on the same page there.
The desire to assassinate Pence was your breaking point? I mean I've lived among normal people who've said out loud they'd put a bullet into Trump's head if given a chance. I suspect lots of them were at the BLM riots.
I know, I know, none of them invaded the Capitol. My point is that the Capitol was largely unprotected due to the precedent of the BLM riots, especially CHAZ and Portland.
I thought the BLM riots and the reaction to them were crazy.
But to send a crowd to the Capitol to pressure the Vice President into overturning electoral college votes is a different thing.
I haven't even researched this exercise in stupidity to the point that I think Trump intentionally sent a mob after his vice president to protect his presidency. Are you claiming that motivation for Trump? I mean he's a sore loser, I get that. My feeling all along is that our institutions would hold up. Our culture hasn't, so much, but that was long precedented long before he was elected.
Jan. 6 is the official certification (or whatever) of the vote. He's been publicly pressuring Pence to overturn it (claiming he has some sort of authority to actually do that).
Pence refuses, issues a press release to that effect on the 6th. Trump reportedly calls him a pussy in private. And blasts him on social media publicly.
Trump marches to the capitol (or said he would), with his crowd during the time of this certification process. This was deemed the "stop the steal" march.
What's the purpose of this crowd? To pressure the VP or congressmen to do something unconstitutional?
You don't even need violence for this to be mind-bogglingly against Trump's oath of office.
Let's just take him at face value. If Pence did what Trump was pressuring him to do (or enough congressmen/senators agreed) - would the country be in a better spot today?
No, overturning the election without evidence would have been horrible. So how much am I supposed to care about that zero probability thing, the weak attempt at which painted all on its side as imbeciles?
The Capitol raid is the stuff that leftist dreams are made of, make no mistake.
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@horace said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@xenon said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@horace said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@xenon said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@horace said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@aqua-letifer said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@lufins-dad said in Inside the Capitol Today:
How about Seattle? That IMO is worse,
Not for me. The desire to assassinate Pence and other Congressmen, and to undo a national election is definitely worse. There's absolutely no comparison. There's a reason you know who John Hinckley Jr. is.
Regarding Seattle, I don't think we have to get into how awful that was and what the response should've been; we're on the same page there.
The desire to assassinate Pence was your breaking point? I mean I've lived among normal people who've said out loud they'd put a bullet into Trump's head if given a chance. I suspect lots of them were at the BLM riots.
I know, I know, none of them invaded the Capitol. My point is that the Capitol was largely unprotected due to the precedent of the BLM riots, especially CHAZ and Portland.
I thought the BLM riots and the reaction to them were crazy.
But to send a crowd to the Capitol to pressure the Vice President into overturning electoral college votes is a different thing.
I haven't even researched this exercise in stupidity to the point that I think Trump intentionally sent a mob after his vice president to protect his presidency. Are you claiming that motivation for Trump? I mean he's a sore loser, I get that. My feeling all along is that our institutions would hold up. Our culture hasn't, so much, but that was long precedented long before he was elected.
Jan. 6 is the official certification (or whatever) of the vote. He's been publicly pressuring Pence to overturn it (claiming he has some sort of authority to actually do that).
Pence refuses, issues a press release to that effect on the 6th. Trump reportedly calls him a pussy in private. And blasts him on social media publicly.
Trump marches to the capitol (or said he would), with his crowd during the time of this certification process. This was deemed the "stop the steal" march.
What's the purpose of this crowd? To pressure the VP or congressmen to do something unconstitutional?
You don't even need violence for this to be mind-bogglingly against Trump's oath of office.
Let's just take him at face value. If Pence did what Trump was pressuring him to do (or enough congressmen/senators agreed) - would the country be in a better spot today?
No, overturning the election without evidence would have been horrible. So how much am I supposed to care about that zero probability thing, the weak attempt at which painted all on its side as imbeciles?
The Capitol raid is the stuff that leftist dreams are made of, make no mistake.
For a "tribe-before-country" type leftist - I'd agree. They're probably seeing this as the biggest win or vindication of the four years.
But it's precisely because it clearly demonstrates that Trump doesn't value liberal democracy.
More broadly, my biggest learning from the last 4 years is that many people in this country don't value our system of government very much.
I'd say that illiberal tendencies are greater on the left these days than right - but through some weird twist the right got the leader who doesn't even understand the philosophy underpinning America.
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@mark said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@horace said in Inside the Capitol Today:
There was just no way we as a society could have squelched the BLM riots with force. Pop culture would not have allowed it and the righteous retribution of the nation-wide mobs against any such use of overwhelming law enforcement would have been even greater. Meanwhile, after the group of unarmed doofuses raided the largely unguarded Capitol, pop culture has become engorged with excitement at the prospect of bringing the law enforcement hammer down on any such future attempts. So that's a huge difference. I totally accept use of force to quell doofuses against Capitol invasions. I do not accept our status quo of righteous rioting, about which we can do nothing, whenever a racist cop incident goes viral.
Agreed, but we humans are really bad at creating the proper balance.
Are there no charges being brought up on anyone from the Seattle mess? If not, then that is wrong, and needs to be fixed.
I'm with Aqua on this though.
Our constitution, our very way of life, was attacked on the 6th.
These people need to go to prison for a long time.
Any more attacks on the foundation or pillars of our nation, should be considered an act of war/sedition and defended with deadly force. If they don't die during the attack, lock them up for life.
Any more violence in the streets of our nation should also be met met with deadly force during the incident. Again, those that do not die, are locked up for as long as they can physically pose a threat to anyone. IOW, until they are very very old, or dead.
Protesting is one thing. Committing acts of violence is another. One is legal, one in not. Pretty simple actually.
Our Constitution, our very way if life...Nah, far from it. If it had been Antifa, you might would have had a point, but not with this mob.
What was there overriding grievance? That every legal vote was not counted! That's not a repudiation of our way of life, it actually reaffirms some bedrock principles.
Contrast that with the goals of Antifa or the actions of BLM. BLM is a billion dollar plus organization, with its roots unabashedly growing in communist soil and a large, well-coordinated leadership structure.
Contrast the violence over the past nine or ten months from antifa, the deaths, the assault on property and juxtapose that against a few hours mayhem at the Capitol.
Perspective can be enlightening.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
I think Trump values our system of government. I think his words would establish that, much more so than the words of his haters. It's unfortunate that the sophomoric "Capitol raid" by the imbeciles who nominally support him (unambiguously disavowed by Trump as of his recent speeches) has created so much rhetorical fuel for those who really, really don't value our government.
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@jolly said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@mark said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@horace said in Inside the Capitol Today:
There was just no way we as a society could have squelched the BLM riots with force. Pop culture would not have allowed it and the righteous retribution of the nation-wide mobs against any such use of overwhelming law enforcement would have been even greater. Meanwhile, after the group of unarmed doofuses raided the largely unguarded Capitol, pop culture has become engorged with excitement at the prospect of bringing the law enforcement hammer down on any such future attempts. So that's a huge difference. I totally accept use of force to quell doofuses against Capitol invasions. I do not accept our status quo of righteous rioting, about which we can do nothing, whenever a racist cop incident goes viral.
Agreed, but we humans are really bad at creating the proper balance.
Are there no charges being brought up on anyone from the Seattle mess? If not, then that is wrong, and needs to be fixed.
I'm with Aqua on this though.
Our constitution, our very way of life, was attacked on the 6th.
These people need to go to prison for a long time.
Any more attacks on the foundation or pillars of our nation, should be considered an act of war/sedition and defended with deadly force. If they don't die during the attack, lock them up for life.
Any more violence in the streets of our nation should also be met met with deadly force during the incident. Again, those that do not die, are locked up for as long as they can physically pose a threat to anyone. IOW, until they are very very old, or dead.
Protesting is one thing. Committing acts of violence is another. One is legal, one in not. Pretty simple actually.
Our Constitution, our very way if life...Nah, far from it. If it had been Antifa, you might would have had a point, but not with this mob.
What was there overriding grievance? That every legal vote was not counted! That's not a repudiation of our way of life, it actually reaffirms some bedrock principles.
Contrast that with the goals of Antifa or the actions of BLM. BLM is a billion dollar plus organization, with its roots unabashedly growing in communist soil and a large, well-coordinated leadership structure.
Contrast the violence over the past nine or ten months from antifa, the deaths, the assault on property and juxtapose that against a few hours mayhem at the Capitol.
Perspective can bbe enlightening.
Right. If you believe the Election Stealing narrative - then the Capitol rioters were patriots.
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@horace said in Inside the Capitol Today:
I think Trump values our system of government. I think his words would establish that, much more so than the words of his haters. It's unfortunate that the sophomoric "Capitol raid" by the imbeciles who nominally support him (unambiguously disavowed by Trump as of his recent speech) has created so much rhetorical fuel for those who really, really don't value our government.
Well - to be fair, they're wasting that rhetorical capital on arguments about "whiteness"
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@xenon said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@horace said in Inside the Capitol Today:
I think Trump values our system of government. I think his words would establish that, much more so than the words of his haters. It's unfortunate that the sophomoric "Capitol raid" by the imbeciles who nominally support him (unambiguously disavowed by Trump as of his recent speech) has created so much rhetorical fuel for those who really, really don't value our government.
Well - to be fair, they're wasting that rhetorical capital on arguments about "whiteness"
There will be a few, regardless of what one says.
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@jolly said in Inside the Capitol Today:
BLM is a billion dollar plus organization, with its roots unabashedly growing in communist soil and a large, well-coordinated leadership structure.
You make it sound like Cargill or Monsanto. In any case, the question is whether the product can be certified organic for the consumer.
“Little by little I am learning the art of being quite content by doing very little slowly” ~ Lionel Hardcastle
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@xenon said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@jolly said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@mark said in Inside the Capitol Today:
@horace said in Inside the Capitol Today:
There was just no way we as a society could have squelched the BLM riots with force. Pop culture would not have allowed it and the righteous retribution of the nation-wide mobs against any such use of overwhelming law enforcement would have been even greater. Meanwhile, after the group of unarmed doofuses raided the largely unguarded Capitol, pop culture has become engorged with excitement at the prospect of bringing the law enforcement hammer down on any such future attempts. So that's a huge difference. I totally accept use of force to quell doofuses against Capitol invasions. I do not accept our status quo of righteous rioting, about which we can do nothing, whenever a racist cop incident goes viral.
Agreed, but we humans are really bad at creating the proper balance.
Are there no charges being brought up on anyone from the Seattle mess? If not, then that is wrong, and needs to be fixed.
I'm with Aqua on this though.
Our constitution, our very way of life, was attacked on the 6th.
These people need to go to prison for a long time.
Any more attacks on the foundation or pillars of our nation, should be considered an act of war/sedition and defended with deadly force. If they don't die during the attack, lock them up for life.
Any more violence in the streets of our nation should also be met met with deadly force during the incident. Again, those that do not die, are locked up for as long as they can physically pose a threat to anyone. IOW, until they are very very old, or dead.
Protesting is one thing. Committing acts of violence is another. One is legal, one in not. Pretty simple actually.
Our Constitution, our very way if life...Nah, far from it. If it had been Antifa, you might would have had a point, but not with this mob.
What was there overriding grievance? That every legal vote was not counted! That's not a repudiation of our way of life, it actually reaffirms some bedrock principles.
Contrast that with the goals of Antifa or the actions of BLM. BLM is a billion dollar plus organization, with its roots unabashedly growing in communist soil and a large, well-coordinated leadership structure.
Contrast the violence over the past nine or ten months from antifa, the deaths, the assault on property and juxtapose that against a few hours mayhem at the Capitol.
Perspective can bbe enlightening.
Right. If you believe the Election Stealing narrative - then the Capitol rioters were patriots.
But either way, were these people trying to overthrow a (in their minds) legal election? No, they weren't.
What would the best remedy they would advocate? A do-over election with a heavy poll-watcher presence and a way to ensure all votes were legally cast.
