Impeach!
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However, the rushed push for impeachment, with no discussion, no evidence, etc reeks of nothing but partisanship and hatred.
We all witnessed it. Every one of us.
And this is how you remove a president? No deliberation, no evidence, no discussion?
Just do it!
This is dangerous territory.
wrote on 13 Jan 2021, 23:00 last edited by Aqua Letifer -
wrote on 13 Jan 2021, 23:17 last edited by
@aqua-letifer said in Impeach!:
This is dangerous territory.
Like "coup attempt" dangerous?
Bill McGurn (WSJ): "If you throw a rock through a window, you have more consideration that what happened here. Impeachment has been cheapened, to the point that it becomes normal."
(paraphrasing)
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@aqua-letifer said in Impeach!:
This is dangerous territory.
Like "coup attempt" dangerous?
Bill McGurn (WSJ): "If you throw a rock through a window, you have more consideration that what happened here. Impeachment has been cheapened, to the point that it becomes normal."
(paraphrasing)
wrote on 13 Jan 2021, 23:23 last edited byBill McGurn (WSJ): "If you throw a rock through a window, you have more consideration that what happened here. Impeachment has been cheapened, to the point that it becomes normal."
(paraphrasing)I agree about the first impeachment, not the second.
A rock wasn't thrown through the Capitol window. A mob was shouting to hang Mike Pence. They tried to trample cops to death. They brought homemade napalm and molotov cocktails to the nation's capital. Pipe bombs were planted at DNC and RNC. They came and did these things because Trump egged them on. He said he loved these people.
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Bill McGurn (WSJ): "If you throw a rock through a window, you have more consideration that what happened here. Impeachment has been cheapened, to the point that it becomes normal."
(paraphrasing)I agree about the first impeachment, not the second.
A rock wasn't thrown through the Capitol window. A mob was shouting to hang Mike Pence. They tried to trample cops to death. They brought homemade napalm and molotov cocktails to the nation's capital. Pipe bombs were planted at DNC and RNC. They came and did these things because Trump egged them on. He said he loved these people.
wrote on 13 Jan 2021, 23:26 last edited by@aqua-letifer said in Impeach!:
They came and did these things because Trump egged them on. He said he loved these people.
See, that's sort of my point. From a purely legal standpoint, that's pretty thin gruel. He never said, "you should do this," and that's the legal standard for inciting violence.
But, we're talking political, not legal, and that's my point. Anyone can, and will, mark my words, drum up an exta-legal, political reason to impeach a president.
Again, other than the symbolism, what's the point? What will be accomplished other than a (cheap) moral victory? At what cost to political behavior going forward?
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@aqua-letifer said in Impeach!:
They came and did these things because Trump egged them on. He said he loved these people.
See, that's sort of my point. From a purely legal standpoint, that's pretty thin gruel. He never said, "you should do this," and that's the legal standard for inciting violence.
But, we're talking political, not legal, and that's my point. Anyone can, and will, mark my words, drum up an exta-legal, political reason to impeach a president.
Again, other than the symbolism, what's the point? What will be accomplished other than a (cheap) moral victory? At what cost to political behavior going forward?
wrote on 13 Jan 2021, 23:30 last edited by -
wrote on 13 Jan 2021, 23:33 last edited by
This isn't Hitler.
And he condemned the violence immediately when it happened.
Many people seem to have worked themselves into such a frenzy they think he actually asked the mob to do what they did.
He didn't.
In fact he condemned it.
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wrote on 13 Jan 2021, 23:37 last edited by
@aqua-letifer said in Impeach!:
Again, other than the symbolism, what's the point?
They went easy on Hitler after his attempt to flip the government and look what happened.
And Trump is no longer president in 7 days. Who's going easy on him?
I really don't see your point. Are you suggesting that he will take the presidency in the future?
And you went full Godwin. Never go full Godwin.
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This isn't Hitler.
And he condemned the violence immediately when it happened.
Many people seem to have worked themselves into such a frenzy they think he actually asked the mob to do what they did.
He didn't.
In fact he condemned it.
wrote on 13 Jan 2021, 23:38 last edited by -
wrote on 13 Jan 2021, 23:41 last edited by
Incidentally, they didn't go easy on Hitler. They put him in jail.
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wrote on 13 Jan 2021, 23:45 last edited by
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@aqua-letifer said in Impeach!:
Again, other than the symbolism, what's the point?
They went easy on Hitler after his attempt to flip the government and look what happened.
And Trump is no longer president in 7 days. Who's going easy on him?
I really don't see your point. Are you suggesting that he will take the presidency in the future?
And you went full Godwin. Never go full Godwin.
wrote on 13 Jan 2021, 23:46 last edited byAnd Trump is no longer president in 7 days. Who's going easy on him?
You seem to be suggesting it? Do you believe he truly did nothing wrong?
I really don't see your point. Are you suggesting that he will take the presidency in the future?
This is what the process is, this is how you determine the legality of his actions. I think that's what needs to happen.
And you went full Godwin. Never go full Godwin.
I didn't. Somewhere between Congress hiding in bunkers, pipe bombs, a Capitol invasion and the National Guard being called to sleep at the Capitol until the inauguration, we're already in Godwin territory.
The best way to ensure that eventually we repeat the mistakes of the late 30s is tell ourselves it can never happen again, and laugh when any comparison is made.
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And Trump is no longer president in 7 days. Who's going easy on him?
You seem to be suggesting it? Do you believe he truly did nothing wrong?
I really don't see your point. Are you suggesting that he will take the presidency in the future?
This is what the process is, this is how you determine the legality of his actions. I think that's what needs to happen.
And you went full Godwin. Never go full Godwin.
I didn't. Somewhere between Congress hiding in bunkers, pipe bombs, a Capitol invasion and the National Guard being called to sleep at the Capitol until the inauguration, we're already in Godwin territory.
The best way to ensure that eventually we repeat the mistakes of the late 30s is tell ourselves it can never happen again, and laugh when any comparison is made.
wrote on 13 Jan 2021, 23:49 last edited by@aqua-letifer said in Impeach!:
This is what the process is, this is how you determine the legality of his actions. I think that's what needs to happen.
What process? Please tell us about what evidence was presented, what direct and cross examination occurred. This is an indictment, not a conviction. as Jon points out. If you're going to go into legality, rather than politics, well, that's a much higher bar.
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I'm glad that the (2nd) greatest deliberative body in the world took two hours to discuss this!
ETA: I'm not saying it was, or was not, justified. However, the rushed push for impeachment, with no discussion, no evidence, etc reeks of nothing but partisanship and hatred.
What, other than preventing the unlikely possibility of him holding federal office again (and, c'mon, how likely was that?) what is the point of this exercise other than being a demonstration of a temper tantrum?
wrote on 13 Jan 2021, 23:50 last edited by -
@aqua-letifer said in Impeach!:
This is what the process is, this is how you determine the legality of his actions. I think that's what needs to happen.
What process? Please tell us about what evidence was presented, what direct and cross examination occurred. This is an indictment, not a conviction. as Jon points out. If you're going to go into legality, rather than politics, well, that's a much higher bar.
wrote on 13 Jan 2021, 23:52 last edited by -
wrote on 13 Jan 2021, 23:54 last edited by
So.. they need 2/3, do they not? What happens if they fail...again?
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wrote on 13 Jan 2021, 23:56 last edited by
I would like to queue up two impeachments for Biden and Harris.
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wrote on 13 Jan 2021, 23:57 last edited by xenon
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wrote on 14 Jan 2021, 00:02 last edited by
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wrote on 14 Jan 2021, 00:03 last edited by jon-nyc
I think, in practice, whether there's a trial or not will depend on what comes out of the FBI/DOJ investigation.