Capitol security woefully unprepared...
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@aqua-letifer said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
@mik said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
To my thinking there is no real comparison between the two situations.
So which do you think is worse then?
Definitely the CHAZ overtake of an upper middle class neighborhood. Portland too, but I'm not sure of the rhetorical value of that travesty when I can just talk about CHAZ.
I keep hearing people saying in earnest that BLM protestors were somehow more "illegal" in their actions than the people yesterday who tried to thwart the counting of electoral college votes.
If you think the BLM protestors are worse, how is that so?
That our society is filled with those who support that initiative more so than it's filled with imbeciles who want to get shot in the head in the process of overtaking the capitol.
@horace said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
Definitely the CHAZ overtake of an upper middle class neighborhood.
Yeah, that's a good point. They didn't just burn crap down as a one-off, they permanently destroyed a neighborhood.
I also think that what happened yesterday was a goofy, extremely half-assed insurrection that was nonetheless taken seriously by the participants. If they could have gotten away with destroying the electoral college votes they absolutely would have. That's several orders of magnitude worse than trying to overtake barriers at random city X.
Please love yourself.
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@horace said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
Definitely the CHAZ overtake of an upper middle class neighborhood.
Yeah, that's a good point. They didn't just burn crap down as a one-off, they permanently destroyed a neighborhood.
I also think that what happened yesterday was a goofy, extremely half-assed insurrection that was nonetheless taken seriously by the participants. If they could have gotten away with destroying the electoral college votes they absolutely would have. That's several orders of magnitude worse than trying to overtake barriers at random city X.
@aqua-letifer said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
@horace said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
Definitely the CHAZ overtake of an upper middle class neighborhood.
Yeah, that's a good point. They didn't just burn crap down as a one-off, they permanently destroyed a neighborhood.
I also think that what happened yesterday was a goofy, extremely half-assed insurrection that was nonetheless taken seriously by the participants. If they could have gotten away with destroying the electoral college votes they absolutely would have. That's several orders of magnitude worse than trying to overtake barriers at random city X.
You have a massive non plausible “if” built into your equation.
If the anarchists could achieve their aims it wouldn’t be so minimal.
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@jon-nyc said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
Trump has to tell these people to stand down.
@horace said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
Trump has to tell these people to stand down.
Since he has been perpetuating the completely horseshit theory that spawned the invasion in the first place, for months, I agree with you that he should have done the opposite thing.
It would have been pretty easy, too.
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@horace said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
Definitely the CHAZ overtake of an upper middle class neighborhood.
Yeah, that's a good point. They didn't just burn crap down as a one-off, they permanently destroyed a neighborhood.
I also think that what happened yesterday was a goofy, extremely half-assed insurrection that was nonetheless taken seriously by the participants. If they could have gotten away with destroying the electoral college votes they absolutely would have. That's several orders of magnitude worse than trying to overtake barriers at random city X.
@aqua-letifer said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
@horace said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
Definitely the CHAZ overtake of an upper middle class neighborhood.
Yeah, that's a good point. They didn't just burn crap down as a one-off, they permanently destroyed a neighborhood.
I also think that what happened yesterday was a goofy, extremely half-assed insurrection that was nonetheless taken seriously by the participants. If they could have gotten away with destroying the electoral college votes they absolutely would have. That's several orders of magnitude worse than trying to overtake barriers at random city X.
Lots of righteous fury to go around. The thing about righteousness is that if there's sufficient amount in any given head, it allows for anything. Such as stealing electoral votes. I totally get why people were scared of Trump "stealing" this election. They were scared that people who shared their hatred would do what hating people do, and they were scared our systems would not hold up. But, I think our systems held up.
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@aqua-letifer said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
@horace said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
Definitely the CHAZ overtake of an upper middle class neighborhood.
Yeah, that's a good point. They didn't just burn crap down as a one-off, they permanently destroyed a neighborhood.
I also think that what happened yesterday was a goofy, extremely half-assed insurrection that was nonetheless taken seriously by the participants. If they could have gotten away with destroying the electoral college votes they absolutely would have. That's several orders of magnitude worse than trying to overtake barriers at random city X.
You have a massive non plausible “if” built into your equation.
If the anarchists could achieve their aims it wouldn’t be so minimal.
@loki said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
@aqua-letifer said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
@horace said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
Definitely the CHAZ overtake of an upper middle class neighborhood.
Yeah, that's a good point. They didn't just burn crap down as a one-off, they permanently destroyed a neighborhood.
I also think that what happened yesterday was a goofy, extremely half-assed insurrection that was nonetheless taken seriously by the participants. If they could have gotten away with destroying the electoral college votes they absolutely would have. That's several orders of magnitude worse than trying to overtake barriers at random city X.
You have a massive non plausible “if” built into your equation.
If the anarchists could achieve their aims it wouldn’t be so minimal.
No, no I don't. It might be how you gauge the importance of a situation, but that's not how our laws are written. You try to prevent the federal government from conducting the electoral process, that's an attempt to overthrow, period. You don't get a pass because you were unsuccessful and you didn't look scary in the eyes of the audience watching at home.
As for non-plausible, they literally tried to do that. They went after the records, and were prevented from stealing them by the Senate floor staff.
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@loki said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
@aqua-letifer said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
@horace said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
Definitely the CHAZ overtake of an upper middle class neighborhood.
Yeah, that's a good point. They didn't just burn crap down as a one-off, they permanently destroyed a neighborhood.
I also think that what happened yesterday was a goofy, extremely half-assed insurrection that was nonetheless taken seriously by the participants. If they could have gotten away with destroying the electoral college votes they absolutely would have. That's several orders of magnitude worse than trying to overtake barriers at random city X.
You have a massive non plausible “if” built into your equation.
If the anarchists could achieve their aims it wouldn’t be so minimal.
No, no I don't. It might be how you gauge the importance of a situation, but that's not how our laws are written. You try to prevent the federal government from conducting the electoral process, that's an attempt to overthrow, period. You don't get a pass because you were unsuccessful and you didn't look scary in the eyes of the audience watching at home.
As for non-plausible, they literally tried to do that. They went after the records, and were prevented from stealing them by the Senate floor staff.
@aqua-letifer said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
@loki said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
@aqua-letifer said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
@horace said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
Definitely the CHAZ overtake of an upper middle class neighborhood.
Yeah, that's a good point. They didn't just burn crap down as a one-off, they permanently destroyed a neighborhood.
I also think that what happened yesterday was a goofy, extremely half-assed insurrection that was nonetheless taken seriously by the participants. If they could have gotten away with destroying the electoral college votes they absolutely would have. That's several orders of magnitude worse than trying to overtake barriers at random city X.
You have a massive non plausible “if” built into your equation.
If the anarchists could achieve their aims it wouldn’t be so minimal.
No, no I don't. It might be how you gauge the importance of a situation, but that's not how our laws are written. You try to prevent the federal government from conducting the electoral process, that's an attempt to overthrow, period. You don't get a pass because you were unsuccessful and you didn't look scary in the eyes of the audience watching at home.
As for non-plausible, they literally tried to do that. They went after the records, and were prevented from stealing them by the Senate floor staff.
We must be talking past each other. Today was as normal as any other day in most people’s lives. I’ve studied much history and can’t think of any other example where this would qualify as a failed coup or a failed revolution. That said I do get your point on the “attempt” even if it was hapless in every manner.
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If you look at the position they were in, they could not win no matter what they did. Capitol police were battling the crowd throughout the day, not just sitting on their hands. Further escalation was liable to spin out of control. Considering how many people were there, not all that many breached the Capitol.
As far as the differences between the BLM riots, this event dissolved when the curfew came. There was no need to use harsher measures.
@mik said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
Capitol police were battling the crowd throughout the day, not just sitting on their hands.
About that...
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Some excerpts from an AP piece.
U.S. Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund, under pressure from Schumer, Pelosi and other congressional leaders, was forced to resign. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell asked for and received the resignation of the Sergeant at Arms of the Senate, Michael Stenger, effective immediately. Paul Irving, the longtime Sergeant at Arms of the House, also resigned.
It is not clear how many officers were on-duty Wednesday, but the complex is policed by a total of 2,300 officers for 16 acres of ground who protect the 435 House representatives, 100 U.S. senators and their staff. By comparison, the city of Minneapolis has about 840 uniformed officers policing a population of 425,000 in a 6,000-acre area.
The acting U.S. attorney in the District of Columbia, Michael Sherwin, said the failure to arrest more people is making their jobs harder.
“Look, we have to now go through cell site orders, collect video footage to try to identify people and then charge them, and then try to execute their arrest. So that has made things challenging, but I can’t answer why those people weren’t zip-tied as they were leaving the building by the Capitol Police.”
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@mik said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
Capitol police were battling the crowd throughout the day, not just sitting on their hands.
About that...
@aqua-letifer said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
@mik said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
Capitol police were battling the crowd throughout the day, not just sitting on their hands.
About that...
That’s fucked up.
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Fired with no pension isn’t enough. They need to be caged.
You were warned.
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Leaving aside the fact there was no preparation in place for a known demonstration planned in advance, I was astounded watching Capitol security run away, and really really angry seeing your democracy so easily overrun by domestic terrorists in full riot.
Your elected representatives deserve the best protection. I'm no security expert but Jesus wept, this is your heart of the country.
The security need professional training and wear video cams.
And a glock minimum, none of your six-shooter stuff.
It's what our armed police carry, along with taser, and either shotguns or machine guns, and body armour.
Shoot into the legs of anyone forcing entry past the entrance doorway to the building. No excuses for anyone crossing that line. Glocks hold up to 33 rounds I think. Machine guns to back up.
And for the uniforms at the entrance cradling their machine gun who smile and direct you to the public entrance, let tham have the confidence that colleagues should be arriving from nearby in the building within a minute should trouble happen.I just put the news on to find a law enforcer died, not sure if inside or out of the building.
It's easy to say, but if I was VP Pence I'd be wanting to use the PPU to go arrest Trump and put him in jail for incitement to riot and causing death. God only knows what Pence is going through, having been ushered into a bunker and then having to deal with an unstable boss.
Complete shitstorm for him. -
Leaving aside the fact there was no preparation in place for a known demonstration planned in advance, I was astounded watching Capitol security run away, and really really angry seeing your democracy so easily overrun by domestic terrorists in full riot.
Your elected representatives deserve the best protection. I'm no security expert but Jesus wept, this is your heart of the country.
The security need professional training and wear video cams.
And a glock minimum, none of your six-shooter stuff.
It's what our armed police carry, along with taser, and either shotguns or machine guns, and body armour.
Shoot into the legs of anyone forcing entry past the entrance doorway to the building. No excuses for anyone crossing that line. Glocks hold up to 33 rounds I think. Machine guns to back up.
And for the uniforms at the entrance cradling their machine gun who smile and direct you to the public entrance, let tham have the confidence that colleagues should be arriving from nearby in the building within a minute should trouble happen.I just put the news on to find a law enforcer died, not sure if inside or out of the building.
It's easy to say, but if I was VP Pence I'd be wanting to use the PPU to go arrest Trump and put him in jail for incitement to riot and causing death. God only knows what Pence is going through, having been ushered into a bunker and then having to deal with an unstable boss.
Complete shitstorm for him.@andyd said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:
Leaving aside the fact there was no preparation in place for a known demonstration planned in advance, I was astounded watching Capitol security run away, and really really angry seeing your democracy so easily overrun by domestic terrorists in full riot.
Your elected representatives deserve the best protection. I'm no security expert but Jesus wept, this is your heart of the country.
The security need professional training and wear video cams.
And a glock minimum, none of your six-shooter stuff.
It's what our armed police carry, along with taser, and either shotguns or machine guns, and body armour.
Shoot into the legs of anyone forcing entry past the entrance doorway to the building. No excuses for anyone crossing that line. Glocks hold up to 33 rounds I think. Machine guns to back up.
And for the uniforms at the entrance cradling their machine gun who smile and direct you to the public entrance, let tham have the confidence that colleagues should be arriving from nearby in the building within a minute should trouble happen.I just put the news on to find a law enforcer died, not sure if inside or out of the building.
It's easy to say, but if I was VP Pence I'd be wanting to use the PPU to go arrest Trump and put him in jail for incitement to riot and causing death. God only knows what Pence is going through, having been ushered into a bunker and then having to deal with an unstable boss.
Complete shitstorm for him.And your ignorance is vast and well on display in this statement.
